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-- Is the end of Political Correctness near?
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i saw a thing on holiday trees earlier this week..i almost fell off my chair...stfu...holiday trees.

Later on that night (i forget what show i was watching) something political, and the reporter and interviewe(sp) both said Merry Christmas at the end. None of this Happy Holidays bs.


fuck you! Merry Christmas! I havent been to church in years and dont plan on going but I still see it as Christmas.

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Originally posted by Euphorica I havent been to church in years and dont plan on going but I still see it as Christmas.

ur going to hell....


u PAGAN!!!!

Re: Re: Re: Is the end of Political Correctness near?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Hopefully others will follow the lead. Enough of the sanitization. This is Canada, not greyville. Multiculturalism is about celebration of all cultures, not hiding them under the rug.

Booyah, +111111111111111111

Re: Is the end of Political Correctness near?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Never in my life have i seen so much outrage over holiday trees and seasons greetings as i have this year. I think the silent majority has finally had enough and is not afraid to speak out after years of being bullied into holiday sanitization. I opened the newspaper the other day and i found a zellers ad. Not only did it say "merry christmas" but it talked about the joy of kids opening their presents from santa "on the day jesus christ was born". i think i will be shopping at zellars this year. I will NOT be shopping at Eatons centre which is featuring a Holiday sale and a holiday tree.

I fully agree with you there.

while I accept that some people treat this as nothing more than a holiday (which is fine), Christmas IS, by definition, a Christian holiday. Refering to Christmas and removing all religious references is kind of stupid (not to mention offensive to Christians, I'm sure).

Re: Re: Is the end of Political Correctness near?

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Originally posted by MarkT Christmas IS, by definition, a Christian holiday. Refering to Christmas and removing all religious references is kind of stupid (not to mention offensive to Christians, I'm sure).

It is also a civil holiday (by way of it's inclusion into statutory law), therefore even void of any religious context there is a holiday on December 25th and it is called CHRISTMAS in this country.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Because christmas is the majority and is a founding tradition in our country. Thats why. If people who came here werent prepared to accept that. They shouldnt have come here.

wow is that an ignorant statement...you never cease to amaze....

I agree that there is a secular side to this issue (i.e. the stat holiday)...I just find it problematic that there are those who seek to remove all sense of religion from the holiday.

You have a clear right to not celebrate the Christian holiday of Christmas...but for long-standing, established businesses to actively remove that facet of the holiday season from commerical advertising smacks of misuided political correctness and is likely just their attempt to appeal to more customers (which is their perogative, of course) during a time of year that makes or breaks many retailers.

Given that, I'd not begrudge anyone who chose to boycott stores who take that approach during this time of year... because there's nothing wrong or politically incorrect with acknowledging the *actual* meaning of the holiday season while remaining conscious of the fact that not all of your customers are Christian.

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Originally posted by JRinger wow is that an ignorant statement...you never cease to amaze....

How is that ignorant?

Im willing to accomodate newcomers as long as they are willing to accomodate me as well. Its a 2 way street. If you dont like the traditions here and cant respect them, then i cant respect you.

Simple.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 How is that ignorant

It's ignorant b/c you're assuming that everyone who doesn't recognize Christmas "came here". Millions of second, third and fourth generation Canadians of many different faiths didn't "choose" to come here -- they were born here. But, of course, you knew all this already and chose to post your sweeping statement anyways just to stir the pot a bit.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Notwithstanding your antecdote regarding the oath to the Queen, by and large it is not immigrants or even the non-christian population that are precipitating the protest against Christian symbolism or tradition present in the state. This is largely being done by groups comprised mainly of Christian or formerly Christian middle class citizens that are fearful that we may offend people through these traditions and symbols. Please do not blame the immigrant population, they are not responsible for this.

and it's precisely these people (some immigrants included of course...let's be fair) who make me sick to my stomach.

In school, we used to have Christmas plays...now it's "Winter Wonderland" or some crap like that so as not to "offend" anyone. It's ridiculous.....we're so busy pandering to everybody in this country that we've forgotten our roots. I'm not Christian or religious in any way but I still accept the fact that the virtues of Christianity has helped make Canada the rest of the western world what it is today (ie the most successful, attracting people from all over the rest of the world).

So everybody should just SHUT UP. It's MERRY CHRISTMAS, not HAPPY HOLIDAYS or WARMEST WISHES (as seen on the tim horton's cups). If you dont' celebrate Christmas, that's fine but don't expect the majority of the country to give it up because it goes against your religious convictions. And all the bleeding hearts need to stop worrying about how all these minorities "feel" all the time.

The line must be drawn somewhere....and it's a bit late in coming in my opinion. I've heard many people bitching about this sort of thing and I dont' blame them.

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Originally posted by JRinger It's ignorant b/c you're assuming that everyone who doesn't recognize Christmas "came here". Millions of second, third and fourth generation Canadians of many different faiths didn't "choose" to come here -- they were born here. But, of course, you knew all this already and chose to post your sweeping statement anyways just to stir the pot a bit.

*Most* people who dont recognize christmas "came" here. I think we can all safely assume that.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Roman actually.

From my understanding it was actually Greek. some romans practiced it too. It was Christianity in Rome that took it over as a way of controlling domestic religion, it still lasted in Greece for a few years after Rome officially adopted Christianity.

PS sorry that was off topic.

pps to be back on topic... I'm all for political correctness. I think it is a sign of increased tolleracnce and recongition of minority groups. It is a sad day then the majority silences the liberties of the minority. I'd take the pursuit liberty over democracy any day.
It is a holiday season because lets face it, it's holidays regardless of if you're christian or jewish or someother group that has something to celebrate during the season. On xmas day, yeah sure keep calling it christmas if you're christian, I have no beef with that but to blatently think that everyone should be on board to give full credit to one sole relgion for entire the holdiay season, give me a break. Canada hasn't been that nieve since never. What's wrong with being polite? Saying happy holidays means you wish the person well during the season and acknowledge that maybe not everyone is celebrating the birth of christ. As a christian if someone said happy holidays to me I would take it as a compliment rather than an attack against the influence of my religion.
As for the holiday tree thing... do other religions use a tree to put presents under during the holidays? I honestly don't know. If they do then I agree that its fair to call it a holiday tree. If Christianity is the only religion that does, then I think its fair to keep calling them christmas trees since they represent something solely christian.

I wrote this at 6am after a night out (sober, but tired) so hopefully it gets my point across the way I intended.

You got it wrong.

The minority is silenceing the majority. The majority had traditions and the minority took them away. Having Christmas isnt taking away anything from anyone. If anything it's adding to their experiences. Just as I would expect that newcomers would want to share their experiences with us.

Again i must restate that true multicultarlism does not mean wiping everything that is cultural off the map. It means embracing ALL cultures and ESPECIALLY the founding one. Inclusivness means including the majority as well, not taking away a country's traditions.

Re: Re: Re: Is the end of Political Correctness near?

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard It is also a civil holiday (by way of it's inclusion into statutory law), therefore even void of any religious context there is a holiday on December 25th and it is called CHRISTMAS in this country.

true.. yet it saddens me to think that children are now brought up celebrating Christmas with all the presents and traditions but without even acknowledging how it all started and why the holiday exists in the first place

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is the end of Political Correctness near?

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Originally posted by AdReNaLiNa true.. yet it saddens me to think that children are now brought up celebrating Christmas with all the presents and traditions but without even acknowledging how it all started and why the holiday exists in the first place

you mean having a holiday that promotes the family being together and leaving out the cult like aspects of religion. meh. I'm not really concerned. As long as the values are still being instilled then I think thats more valuable.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 You got it wrong. The minority is silenceing the majority. The majority had traditions and the minority took them away. Having Christmas isnt taking away anything from anyone. If anything it's adding to their experiences. Just as I would expect that newcomers would want to share their experiences with us. Again i must restate that true multicultarlism does not mean wiping everything that is cultural off the map. It means embracing ALL cultures and ESPECIALLY the founding one. Inclusivness means including the majority as well, not taking away a country's traditions.

Actually true multiculturalism doesn't put one faith above another.
The minority isn't silencing the majority, simply asking to be included in the considerations of the holiday season. Seems to me calling it the holidays is pretty fair middle ground for all faiths.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 You got it wrong. The minority is silenceing the majority. The majority had traditions and the minority took them away. Having Christmas isnt taking away anything from anyone. If anything it's adding to their experiences. Just as I would expect that newcomers would want to share their experiences with us. Again i must restate that true multicultarlism does not mean wiping everything that is cultural off the map. It means embracing ALL cultures and ESPECIALLY the founding one. Inclusivness means including the majority as well, not taking away a country's traditions.

Ooooh, that's one hot tamale you throw out there Jay!

The founding culture eh? Is that why everyone is starting to wear mukluks?

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Originally posted by nusty Actually true multiculturalism doesn't put one faith above another. The minority isn't silencing the majority, simply asking to be included in the considerations of the holiday season. Seems to me calling it the holidays is pretty fair middle ground for all faiths.

Werd!

Hey Dave, now we can have our little Pagan Sacrifice Holiday!

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Originally posted by Chiclet Werd! Hey Dave, now we can have our little Pagan Sacrifice Holiday!

oooh can we do it with a holiday bush? lol. I couldn't resist.

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Originally posted by nusty Actually true multiculturalism doesn't put one faith above another. The minority isn't silencing the majority, simply asking to be included in the considerations of the holiday season. Seems to me calling it the holidays is pretty fair middle ground for all faiths.

no thats neutralizing it. if i wish you a merry christmas, just feel free to respond with happy chunukah or whatever your tradition happens to say for example.

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Originally posted by Chiclet Ooooh, that's one hot tamale you throw out there Jay! The founding culture eh? Is that why everyone is starting to wear mukluks?

Well you know what i mean. The founding culture of modern canada is without a doubt english and french based on catholic/prodestant religions.

you shit disturber.. lol

goin back to the whole "its holidays regardless" well celebrate the holidays in summer with cards and gifts and trees....geez

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Originally posted by Jayx1 no thats neutralizing it. if i wish you a merry christmas, just feel free to respond with happy chunukah or whatever your tradition happens to say for example.

but I wouldn't be wishing you a happy chunukah if I knew you were christian.
and likewise if i was jewish (I'm not) and you knew it, having you tell me merry christmas insinuates that it would mean something to me.

If I knew you were christian and I was only speaking to you then yes, of course I would wish you a merry christmas, in this day and age though you can't guarentee that saying that would mean the same to everyone... so for people I don't know so well, I'd wish them happy holidays.

What's really so wrong with finding a neutral middle ground for all faiths to be included?
Happy holidays has your bases covered in a context that includes everyone celebrating anything during that season.

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Originally posted by nusty but I wouldn't be wishing you a happy chunukah if I knew you were christian. and likewise if i was jewish (I'm not) and you knew it, having you tell me merry christmas insinuates that it would mean something to me. If I knew you were christian and I was only speaking to you then yes, of course I would wish you a merry christmas, in this day and age though you can't guarentee that saying that would mean the same to everyone... so for people I don't know so well, I'd wish them happy holidays. What's really so wrong with finding a neutral middle ground for all faiths to be included? Happy holidays has your bases covered in a context that includes everyone celebrating anything during that season.

If im not jewish and yet someone still wished me happy chunukah id smile and say merry christmas.

Why should a greeting of warmth and good cheer be offensive? HOW Could it be offensive? If a message of good wishes is offensive to somone then the problem is not with the message, it's with the receiver of that message.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 If im not jewish and yet someone still wished me happy chunukah id smile and say merry christmas.

If you were Jewish, you would find that people don't wish you Happy Chanukah (which, as an aside, is a completely unimportant holiday on the Jewish calendar -- in many respects made bigger, for kids, by virtue of its proximity to Christmas on the calendar). People don't bother to find out whether you actually celebrate Christmas before wishing you Merry Christmas -- many people just make the assumption that "Merry Christmas" means something to everyone. I also find that when people actually DO know that, for example, you're Jewish, it usually gets acknowledged with a line like "Happy Chanukah or whatever, thats what its called right?" -- doesn't exactly give a warm and fuzzy feeling does it?. So, what's wrong with just saying "Happy Holidays" -- it sure doesn't infringe upon your right to celebrate (regardless of what holiday you're celebrating) within your own family any way you choose.

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