TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Religion Of Peace?
Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z That doesn't apply to Islam. Islam is defined by the Quran only. Culture is completely irrelevant.

oh. are you sure?

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail oh. are you sure?

Yes.

I guess a rough analogy would be that you could view the Quran as the US constitution, except no man (or woman) can amend it.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I guess a rough analogy would be that you could view the Quran as the US constitution, except no man (or woman) can amend it.

damn, thats a pretty rough analogy.

just for for shits and grins. analagize the preamble and it's irrelavency applicable to American culture for starters.

after that, if you want, you could compare the first ten Amendments as well.

any Islamic culture defined only by the Quran is what's dangerous to any culture, including Islam itself. not just to children that steal or to people working office buildings.

so to say that Islam is defined by the Quran only, even by definition, takes away from what Muslims can truly achieve culturally.

You've got it the other way around, it's adaptable to any culture.

There's a lot of good points being raised in this thread.. and I'd say Shaolin_Z has got it right (to an extent). Islam can be adapted to any culture because it is such an open minded religion and people need to start looking at that.. even Muslims. I do agree that there's a lot of Muslims out there that think this is not possible religiously but fact of the matter is that it is and the newer generation of muslims all around the world that are starting to see that. This is not what I say .. this is how alot of Muslims think nowadays.

Islam is not defined by the Quran itself only.. it's also defined by what we called "Sunnah" which are the doings and deeds of the Prophet (PBUH)-- and yes it is obvious that "Sunnah" per se wouldn't apply to today's world but it's basically something that one can learn so much from morally and spirtiually. However Muslims do need to realize that everything can't be excercised today because the times have changed.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter The thing with faith is, since it doesn't really have any substance itself, it has a way of taking the shape of whatever container your pour it into. The problem is not Islam, it is the individuals themselves.

then why do we never hear about christian or catholic terrorists who fly airplanes into buildings? what about hindi, buddhist, taoist, scientologist, agnostic etcetcetc terrorists? why is it that only dirtbag islamists are the ones blowing up buildings and committing acts of terrorism? religion of peace my ass

quote:

Originally posted by Erotic Buddha then why do we never hear about christian or catholic terrorists who fly airplanes into buildings? what about hindi, buddhist, taoist, scientologist, agnostic etcetcetc terrorists? why is it that only dirtbag islamists are the ones blowing up buildings and committing acts of terrorism? religion of peace my ass

ETA, IRA, Japaneese during WWII, etc?

quote:

Originally posted by Erotic Buddha then why do we never hear about christian or catholic terrorists who fly airplanes into buildings? what about hindi, buddhist, taoist, scientologist, agnostic etcetcetc terrorists? why is it that only dirtbag islamists are the ones blowing up buildings and committing acts of terrorism? religion of peace my ass

Well to answer your question.. Look at the shit happening in palestine.. you think that's very heroic?? Kids getting killed, women getting raped.. Dude.. the western super powers arn't exactly all that innocent. Your precious little Israel is fucking with Muslims on a regular basis.

quote:

Originally posted by digitul punk There's a lot of good points being raised in this thread.. and I'd say Shaolin_Z has got it right (to an extent). Islam can be adapted to any culture because it is such an open minded religion and people need to start looking at that.. even Muslims. I do agree that there's a lot of Muslims out there that think this is not possible religiously but fact of the matter is that it is and the newer generation of muslims all around the world that are starting to see that. This is not what I say .. this is how alot of Muslims think nowadays. Islam is not defined by the Quran itself only.. it's also defined by what we called "Sunnah" which are the doings and deeds of the Prophet (PBUH)-- and yes it is obvious that "Sunnah" per se wouldn't apply to today's world but it's basically something that one can learn so much from morally and spirtiually. However Muslims do need to realize that everything can't be excercised today because the times have changed.

While that's true, the only problem is that Sunnah and Hadith are not very well preserved and thier authneticity is very questionable and hard to verify. You know the Bukhari collection everyone keeps talking about (especially Sunnis), well, the Bukhari guy went around trying to collect and preserve Hadith a few generations (2?) after the prophet passed away. And once he finally compiled a bunch of them into a single volume, he told the administrative/legsilative body he lived under that he though less than 3-5 % of these were actually authentic. The "ruler" esentially asked him, "Ok, could you do me a favour and change some of these?" Bukhari refused and was imprisoned for life. So that should tell you a little something about how authentic the Hadith that are floating around are. Plus, my brother did some research on different publications of Bukhari that were printed in different years. He compared those of the last few decades and found out that the Wahabi influnced Saudi power structure had been making changes to them over time. So that's why I always take a hadith with a grain of salt, and often don't worry to much about even taking a look at them.

quote:

Originally posted by digitul punk Well to answer your question.. Look at the shit happening in palestine.. you think that's very heroic?? Kids getting killed, women getting raped.. Dude.. the western super powers arn't exactly all that innocent. Your precious little Israel is fucking with Muslims on a regular basis.

isreal is a western super power?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z While that's true, the only problem is that Sunnah and Hadith are not very well preserved and thier authneticity is very questionable and hard to verify. You know the Bukhari collection everyone keeps talking about (especially Sunnis), well, the Bukhari guy went around trying to collect and preserve Hadith a few generations (2?) after the prophet passed away. And once he finally compiled a bunch of them into a single volume, he told the administrative/legsilative body he lived under that he though less than 3-5 % of these were actually authentic. The "ruler" esentially asked him, "Ok, could you do me a favour and change some of these?" Bukhari refused and was imprisoned for life. So that should tell you a little something about how authentic the Hadith that are floating around are. Plus, my brother did some research on different publications of Bukhari that were printed in different years. He compared those of the last few decades and found out that the Wahabi influnced Saudi power structure had been making changes to them over time. So that's why I always take a hadith with a grain of salt, and often don't worry to much about even taking a look at them.

Well put and agreed. I wonder if you are a muslim... But in any case... I'm a shia muslim and to me that issue is not a problem because even if the hadith are corrupted which I'm pretty sure are to a certain degree then we have cross reference scriptures from our Imams who were the following generations of the Prophet (pbuh) and their word was the prophet's word. Besides the Mujtahids and Ullemas of Iran can help us out on that. Frankly there's not an issue that they can't deal with because religiouly because the Mujtahids are in direct contact with Imam-e-Zaman which is the 12th Imam and who is said to be alive. Mind you according to shia-ism Imam's are not ordinary men like us. They have divine powers and so do the Mujtahhid's to certain degree (that is the contact with the Imam himself). All of this is very exclusive in Shia-ism and you are rarely going to find a sect with this much detail. Of course that being said this is my view and opinion.

And @ Erotic Dumbass .. Every one and their mom knows that America is behind Israel.

like that's anyone elses fault that the ARABS (no such thing as palestinians) don't know what to do with their time. they are really loved by their own neighbors like lebanon, they in fact WORSHIP them. do you see native americans stirring shit up here? no they live and get along. you lose, you adjust and not do what you're doing, cause it ain't gonna work and you're just going to get blown the fuck up by a helicopter precision missile strike which was amazing.

@ digital_punk:

quote:

I wonder if you are a muslim...

I am.

@ Lepanto: Your baseless accusations are beginning to get a little irritating. Why don't you try researching from multiple sources before coming to conclusions?

baseless how? oh ok israeli civilians go into "palestine" and blow up civilian quarters INTENTIONALLY killing non-military/paramilitary personel...RIIIIIIIIGHT. i'm sure your al arabia/al jazeera research is quiet solid and more so than mine and yes you're right. native americans are blowing up night clubs in NYC and LA.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto baseless how? oh ok israeli civilians go into "palestine" and blow up civilian quarters INTENTIONALLY killing non-military/paramilitary personel...RIIIIIIIIGHT. i'm sure your al arabia/al jazeera research is quiet solid and more so than mine and yes you're right. native americans are blowing up night clubs in NYC and LA.

That's not what I was reffering to, but rather your statements about Islam.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto like that's anyone elses fault that the ARABS (no such thing as palestinians) don't know what to do with their time. they are really loved by their own neighbors like lebanon, they in fact WORSHIP them. do you see native americans stirring shit up here? no they live and get along. you lose, you adjust and not do what you're doing, cause it ain't gonna work and you're just going to get blown the fuck up by a helicopter precision missile strike which was amazing.

LoL! You know what I take back what I said earlier about you.




















You arn't 13.. you are 10. That kinda explains why you are having a hard time making sense in your posts. Flame away kid.

I make more sense, little girl, than you're vain attempts of making sense of Islam in the aftermath of all the points made against JUST muhamad. Truth hurts but that's to be expected. Only a religious person could be so ignorant

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Only a religious person could be so ignorant

Ouch that hurts you jew!!! Besides aren't you a religious zelot?

quote:

Originally posted by digitul punk You ever lived amongst muslims to judge that they are psychos?

I don't think that they're psychos. I said that the vast majority is either A, B, or C, where only A was "psychos". I expect the largest portion falls in category C, or that is, that was what I used to think. The cartoon riots and illogical boycott have made me question if the B group isn't larger than the C one.

quote:

Originally posted by digitul punk Well to answer your question.. Look at the shit happening in palestine.. you think that's very heroic?? Kids getting killed, women getting raped.. Dude.. the western super powers arn't exactly all that innocent. Your precious little Israel is fucking with Muslims on a regular basis.

You do realize that you're generalizing from Israel to the entire west here, don't you? How can *you* criticise others for generalizing from Islamic terrorists to all Muslims?

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic You do realize that you're generalizing from Israel to the entire west here, don't you? How can *you* criticise others for generalizing from Islamic terrorists to all Muslims?

My point exactly.. I'm well aware of the fact that I'm generalizing the cause here and that's what I'm trying to convey here. But come on you really think that the Israel/Palestinian issue is that big of a deal to settle? It could have been sought out years and ages ago if anyone really did give a flying fuck about it but no.. well what you give is what you get.

As far as the cartoon issue goes.. Call it illogical or whatever but you do have to draw a line between humor and ignorance. People (well most people) know that Muslims take their religion rather seriously and do not have the same kind of mentality regarding religious humor as other people do. Now you draw a cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb on his head and expect Muslims to not get worked up over it? I know there is "Freedom of Speech" but again.. it's one thing to use it and another to abuse it. For example you can't just go and say "FUCK YOU.. YOU stoopid fucking pig" to a cop and not expect to get in trouble for it. Even freedom has its limits and anyone who denies this has to be delusional...

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic You do realize that you're generalizing from Israel to the entire west here, don't you? How can *you* criticise others for generalizing from Islamic terrorists to all Muslims?

yeah...uhh...yes, it's pretty obvious.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.