TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Circumcision should be outlawed
Pages (6): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 »

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Can you qualify that completely subjective statement? Science or no science, pleasure is a completely subjective matter whose measureable level is dependent on the mental interpretation of each specific subject. Furthermore, is the penis any more or less functional with or without the foreskin?

When a baby boy's natural and intact penis is "circumcised," this is what is lost forever:

1. The frenar band of soft ridges--the single most pleasure producing zone on the male body. Loss of this densely innervated and reactive belt of tissue reduces the sensitivity of the remaining penis to about that of ordinary skin.
   
   
2. Approximately half of the temperature reactive smooth muscle sheath called the dartos fascia.
   
   
3. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, a component of the immune system.
   
   
4. An estimated 240 feet of microscopic nerves, including branches of the dorsal nerve.
   
   
5. Between 10,000 to 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which can discern slight motion, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture. This loss includes thousands of coiled fine-touch receptors called the Meissner's corpuscles - the most important sensory component in the foreskin.
   
   
6. Estrogen receptors the purpose and value of which are not yet fully understood.
   
   
7. More than 50% of the mobile penile skin, the multi-purpose covering of the glans, that shields all of the specialized penile skin from abrasion, drying, and callusing (by keratin cell layering), and protects it from dirt and other contaminants. The debilitating sexual consequences of keratinizing the glans have never been studied.
   
   
8. The immunological defense system of the soft mucosa, which may produce antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as lysozyme, also found in mothers milk, and plasma cells, which secrete immunoglobulin antibodies.
   
   
9. Lymphatic vessels, the loss of which interrupts the lymph flow within a part of the bodys immune system.
   
   
10. The frenulum, the very sensitive "V" shaped web-like tethering structure on the underside of the glans; usually amputated along with the foreskin, or severed, which destroys its functionality.
    
    
11. The apocrine glands of the inner foreskin, which produce pheromones�nature's powerful, silent, invisible behavioral signals to potential sexual partners. They contribute significantly to sexuality. Their loss is unstudied.
    
    
12. Ectopic sebaceous glands, which lubricate and moisturize.
    
    
13. The essential "gliding" mechanism. If unfolded and spread out flat, the average adult foreskin measures about 15 square inches, the size of a postcard. This abundance of specialized, self-lubricating mobile skin gives the natural penis its unique hallmark ability to smoothly "glide" in and out within itself�permitting natural non-abrasive masturbation and intercourse, without drying out the vagina or requiring artificial lubricants.
    
    
14. The pink to red to dark purple natural coloration of the glans, normally an internal organ, like the tongue.
    
    
15. A significant amount of the penis circumference because its double layered wrapping of loose foreskin is now missing making the circumcised penis defectively thinner than a full-sized intact penis.
    
    
16. As much as one inch of the erect penis length due to amputation when the connective tissue is torn apart during "circumcision." This shared membrane tightly fuses the foreskin and the glans together while the penis develops. Ripping it apart wounds the glans, leaving it raw and subject to infection, scarring, and shrinkage.
    
    
17. Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery. The loss of this dense vascularity interrupts normal blood flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, obviously damaging its natural function and possibly stunting its complete and healthy development.
    
    
18. Every year boys lose their penises altogether from botched "circumcisions" and infections accidents happen. They are then "sexually reassigned" by transgender surgery and must live their lives as females.
    
    
19. Every year many boys lose their lives from the complications of medically unnecessary circumcisions. The cause of these deaths are a fact the billion dollar per year circumcision industry willfully obscures and conceals.
    
    
20. Although not yet proved scientifically, there is considerable new evidence that an incomplete penis loses its capacity for the subtle electromagnetic "cross-communication" that occurs only during contact between two mucous membranes, and which contributes to the perception of sexual ecstasy. In other words, medically unjustified foreskin amputation of boys ultimately diminishes the intensity of orgasms for both men and women!

most of that is farse or/and of no use. the mere fact that it comes from a fake source.

paper copy/version please

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto for spreading HPV and HIV and cancer..yeah it is

spreading cancer?

as for HIV, there's this new invention called the condom, heard of it?

and that's without checking the validity of your claims.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto the mere fact that it comes from a fake source.

a fake source being distinguished from a legitimate one how? print?


p.s. before we go too far off topic, allow me to create a thread specifically for the discussion on the valdity of internet sources vs that of printed ones and other sources.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T a fake source being distinguised from a legitimate one how? print?

i am currently making a website that is a complete copy of any of the frace sites that you've used thus far. i will however post only info from circumcision advocates and advocy groups. where is the proof? in print silly. because i can take down/change/alter/modify anything online. but once it's in print it's there forever, unless all copies are destroyed. so i ask you again, ignoramous, where's the proof of your psuedo-scientific arguments?



i guess that also means that you never check the validity of ANY claim just as long as it fills your own personel angst only a little kid who is afraid of the truth would take "news" at face value without looking into REAL finds and articles available to any real or serious researcher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_advocacy

In Australia, Professor Brian Morris, author of "In Favour of Circumcision" [15] said, "It was never my intention to be the biggest campaigner for circumcision in Australia. Really, I�m a campaigner for science." [16] Morris writes that circumcision confers many medical benefits including reduced risk of UTIs, penile cancer, HIV, balanitis, posthitis, phimosis, and prostate cancer and argues that circumcision has sexual benefits


in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1914 advocating universal circumcision for health reasons. He started to advocate circumcision to prevent penile cancer in 1928, and in 1932 he published a study to document his claim. Some recent studies have shown that circumcised men are at a reduced risk, particularly from invasive penile cancer, though circumcision does not provide complete protection. For further discussion, please see: medical analysis of circumcision.


and as for unreliability;

What is Unreliable Information on the Internet?

Information on the Internet may misrepresent the truth, be out of date, biased or just incorrect.

For example, racist websites may claim to tell or represent the truth about complex social, cultural or historical issues in ways that appear logical and plausible.

Hoax websites may portray themselves as another organisation and fraudulently ask for donations of money. Often these types of sites not only contain unreliable information but are also criminal in their activity.

Websites that broadcast news and events may also provide unreliable information in the sense that the activity could be reported incorrectly or reveal a bias to a particular view point.

In a similar way, personal websites and newsgroups could have opinions published on them which may be confused by some for the truth.

Due to the enormous amount of information published on the Internet, both reliable and unreliable information is freely available. Information can easily be published without it being checked over, approved, confirmed or verified in any way.

from Australian Government's NetAlert Limited.

and bottom line is. you are not an expert, doctor, or even a nurse. you have no qualifications of telling people what to do. you have nothing to back up any argument you've made either. and as to what is better, unless you're a fairy you can't prove it to any of us. give it up. you're arguing for t he sake arguing, with no info or any real support.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto i guess that also means that you never check the validity of ANY claim just as long as it fills your own personel angst only a little kid who is afraid of the truth would take "news" at face value without looking into REAL finds and articles available to any real or serious researcher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_advocacy In Australia, Professor Brian Morris, author of "In Favour of Circumcision" [15] said, "It was never my intention to be the biggest campaigner for circumcision in Australia. Really, I�m a campaigner for science." [16] Morris writes that circumcision confers many medical benefits including reduced risk of UTIs, penile cancer, HIV, balanitis, posthitis, phimosis, and prostate cancer and argues that circumcision has sexual benefits in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1914 advocating universal circumcision for health reasons. He started to advocate circumcision to prevent penile cancer in 1928, and in 1932 he published a study to document his claim. Some recent studies have shown that circumcised men are at a reduced risk, particularly from invasive penile cancer, though circumcision does not provide complete protection. For further discussion, please see: medical analysis of circumcision.

first off, since when is wikipedia considered a realiable source? i am pretty sure you yourself have discredited it in the past.

and based on our search terms, who would you say sounds more biased?
me, who searched for "Circumcision"
or you, who searched for "Circumcision Advocacy"?

furthermore, the information you quoted is highly outdated, from a time before any relavant sexual research of importance took place.

wrong again. wikipedia is considered an extremely reliable source. just because the internet isn't (because of countless information) but a single site could have more reliable info than others like britanica and such.

no you're wrong yet again, you didn't search cicumcision you're getting info at ANTI-circumcision websites.

go search circumcision on wikipedia and the same info i posted will come up, just in less detail . if you DARE.

JESUS, could you be any more OFF?!?! sexual research?!?!?! it has been done for DECADES!!!!


so what it comes down to in the end is that people like me and shakka are taking a normal, mind your business, attitude while you are trying to prove something because you're mad at all the Jews or something. failing at every post from your original one about a case of a man who was dismissed because he was using God as a form of defense. lol

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto wrong again. wikipedia is considered an extremely reliable source. just because the internet isn't (because of countless information) but a single site could have more reliable info than others like britanica and such.

"Welcome to Wikipedia,the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit." < that's amazing validity for you right there!

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto no you're wrong yet again, you didn't search cicumcision you're getting info at ANTI-circumcision websites.

sorry, but i believe i know what i typed into the google search bar.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto JESUS, could you be any more OFF?!?! sexual research?!?!?! it has been done for DECADES!!!!

yes, decades. not centuries.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto ...while you are trying to prove something because you're mad at all the Jews or something.

if this was against the jews don't you think i'd be taking the 'religion is imbecilic' route?

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto and bottom line is. you are not an expert, doctor, or even a nurse. you have no qualifications of telling people what to do. you have nothing to back up any argument you've made either. and as to what is better, unless you're a fairy you can't prove it to any of us. give it up. you're arguing for t he sake arguing, with no info or any real support.

yep, absolutely nothing... except straightforward logic: you lose nearly half your nerve endings in the penis and wear your glans (which is said to be the equivalant of a clitoris), you will experience less pleasure from sexual acts.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T yep, absolutely nothing... except straightforward logic: you lose nearly half your nerve endings in the penis and wear your glans (which is said to be the equivalant of a clitoris), you will experience less pleasure from sexual acts.

Phew, what a relief. I'd be going off half-cocked all the time and probably would've impregnated 500+ women by now!

Bottom line, I'm happy with my dick. It works flawlessly and gives me great pleasure. If you prefer yours with foreskin on or you are circumcised and feel bitterness about it for whatever reason, go getcha one of these puppies.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T When a baby boy's natural and intact penis is "circumcised," this is what is lost forever: The frenar band of soft ridges--the single most pleasure producing zone on the male body. Loss of this densely innervated and reactive belt of tissue reduces the sensitivity of the remaining penis to about that of ordinary skin. Approximately half of the temperature reactive smooth muscle sheath called the dartos fascia. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, a component of the immune system. An estimated 240 feet of microscopic nerves, including branches of the dorsal nerve. Between 10,000 to 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which can discern slight motion, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture. This loss includes thousands of coiled fine-touch receptors called the Meissner's corpuscles - the most important sensory component in the foreskin. Estrogen receptors the purpose and value of which are not yet fully understood. More than 50% of the mobile penile skin, the multi-purpose covering of the glans, that shields all of the specialized penile skin from abrasion, drying, and callusing (by keratin cell layering), and protects it from dirt and other contaminants. The debilitating sexual consequences of keratinizing the glans have never been studied. The immunological defense system of the soft mucosa, which may produce antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as lysozyme, also found in mothers milk, and plasma cells, which secrete immunoglobulin antibodies. Lymphatic vessels, the loss of which interrupts the lymph flow within a part of the bodys immune system. The frenulum, the very sensitive "V" shaped web-like tethering structure on the underside of the glans; usually amputated along with the foreskin, or severed, which destroys its functionality. The apocrine glands of the inner foreskin, which produce pheromones�nature's powerful, silent, invisible behavioral signals to potential sexual partners. They contribute significantly to sexuality. Their loss is unstudied. Ectopic sebaceous glands, which lubricate and moisturize. The essential "gliding" mechanism. If unfolded and spread out flat, the average adult foreskin measures about 15 square inches, the size of a postcard. This abundance of specialized, self-lubricating mobile skin gives the natural penis its unique hallmark ability to smoothly "glide" in and out within itself�permitting natural non-abrasive masturbation and intercourse, without drying out the vagina or requiring artificial lubricants. The pink to red to dark purple natural coloration of the glans, normally an internal organ, like the tongue. A significant amount of the penis circumference because its double layered wrapping of loose foreskin is now missing making the circumcised penis defectively thinner than a full-sized intact penis. As much as one inch of the erect penis length due to amputation when the connective tissue is torn apart during "circumcision." This shared membrane tightly fuses the foreskin and the glans together while the penis develops. Ripping it apart wounds the glans, leaving it raw and subject to infection, scarring, and shrinkage. Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery. The loss of this dense vascularity interrupts normal blood flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, obviously damaging its natural function and possibly stunting its complete and healthy development. Every year boys lose their penises altogether from botched "circumcisions" and infections accidents happen. They are then "sexually reassigned" by transgender surgery and must live their lives as females. Every year many boys lose their lives from the complications of medically unnecessary circumcisions. The cause of these deaths are a fact the billion dollar per year circumcision industry willfully obscures and conceals. Although not yet proved scientifically, there is considerable new evidence that an incomplete penis loses its capacity for the subtle electromagnetic "cross-communication" that occurs only during contact between two mucous membranes, and which contributes to the perception of sexual ecstasy. In other words, medically unjustified foreskin amputation of boys ultimately diminishes the intensity of orgasms for both men and women! if you say this information is false, i'd love to read anything backing your words.

Since you didn't want to give a source for this, I will.

It's by Gary L. Harryman and it's entitled "Lost List"

The sources he lists are:

www.cirp.org
www.nocirc.org
www.noharmm.org
www.norm.org

They're all *gasp* anti-circumcision sites!!!

This discussion is as pointless as the first one.

It's like someone with an extra ear lobe telling me how horrible it is that I don't have one, even though I wouldn't want one if I had the choice.

How is someone forcing everyone not to be circumcised somehow better than giving parents the option?

You can go back and forth forever listing and questioning sources as to the medical significance of circumcision, but I gurantee at the end of the day, neither side will have budged.

You have a foreskin, great. I'm happy for you. If there's some sort of award for having one, then you deserve it. But why do you give a rat's ass if someone else doesn't? Especially when probably 99.9% of those who are circumsized wouldn't change that if given the chance?

thanks for proving you don't read my links:

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono Since you didn't want to give a source for this, I will.

or my posts for that matter:

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono You have a foreskin, great. I'm happy for you. If there's some sort of award for having one, then you deserve it. But why do you give a rat's ass if someone else doesn't? Especially when probably 99.9% of those who are circumsized wouldn't change that if given the chance?

quote:

Originally posted by Nou WOOOT I WON BETTER SEX/MASTURBATION WEEEEEEEEE! I don't really care what other people have, I for one don't think about other guys dicks all that much... I just don't like people that go "OMG YOU DIDNT GET CIRCUSIZED, YOURE GUNNA GET [insert some retarded medical problem that is either totally false or results from people being unclean slobs who don't wash their head] YOU SUCK!"

LOL. Yeah, that's cool. I have no problem with people who are not circumsized. Circumcized individuals probably see it as a health/convenience/appearance benefit while those who are uncircumsized probably see it as just plain unnecessary and potentially detrimental. Whichever side you're on, more power to you. Have fun with your weiner, and don't worry about somebody else's.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T yep, absolutely nothing... except straightforward logic: you lose nearly half your nerve endings in the penis and wear your glans (which is said to be the equivalant of a clitoris), you will experience less pleasure from sexual acts.

penis envy?

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono They're all *gasp* anti-circumcision sites!!!

oh no, Psy-T...haven't i said that ?!?!?!

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus penis envy?

not in the usual sense.. but yeah, i guess so...

cheeky bastard

see here

gonna try to find some more info supporting this, i just heard it on i think the bbc world service on public radio a week or so back

Study: Circumcision of Men Lowers AIDS Risk

quote:

July 27, 2005 -- South African men who agreed to be circumcised had a 65 percent lower risk of HIV infection. AIDS experts say the implications are complicated. This is the first study to show a direct link between circumcision and reduced risk of HIV. Among 1,500 young men who agreed to be circumcised, only 18 got infected with HIV over the next year-and-a-half. Among the same number of uncircumcised men, there were three times more infections. Scientists presented the findings in Brazil. AIDS experts say the results are promising. But Charles Gilks of the World Health Organization worries that newly circumcised men will feel invulnerable. "If there is an increase in unsafe behavior in men, this will undoubtedly increase the risk of women acquiring HIV," Gilk says. Results from three similar African studies are expected in the next two years. -- Richard Knox

source

idk what that story's source is, and i want to find more info before stating it as fact or otherwise, but i just thought i'd put that out there

quote:

Originally posted by mezzir gonna try to find some more info supporting this, i just heard it on i think the bbc world service on public radio a week or so back Study: Circumcision of Men Lowers AIDS Risk source idk what that story's source is, and i want to find more info before stating it as fact or otherwise, but i just thought i'd put that out there

I would also like to know more about this. As the study is reported, it seems like the "control group" is just all other uncircumcised men, which makes the findings hardly convincing, scientifically speaking.


Anyway, this thread sure has its share of BS, but one particularly poor point that seems to pop up over and over again from pro-circumcision guys is that "women love circumcised dicks". What kind of pussy ass argument is that? Are you guys telling me that you do with your dick as women wish? That's really manly. One would have thought that real men do with their most priced possesion as they themselves want. Are you guys prepared to get a Prince Albert piercing too, if that turns out to be popular among women?

Also, for those of you in favour of allowing parents to circumcise their newborns, and compare it with having your daughter's ears pierced: Why not compare it with the real pendant, namely female circumcision? Do you also support this - and to what degree? Is a sewn-up fully-mutilated girl your kind of dream date?

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic I would also like to know more about this. As the study is reported, it seems like the "control group" is just all other uncircumcised men, which makes the findings hardly convincing, scientifically speaking.

http://ajcp.metapress.com/(if4muq45duzru2exgeeo4efl)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,7,19;journal,3,76;linkingpublicationresults,1:300401,1
http://sti.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/82/2/101
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articl...i?artid=1262556
http://www.iavireport.org/Issues/Is...ircumcision.asp

quote:

Anyway, this thread sure has its share of BS, but one particularly poor point that seems to pop up over and over again from pro-circumcision guys is that "women love circumcised dicks". What kind of pussy ass argument is that? Are you guys telling me that you do with your dick as women wish? That's really manly. One would have thought that real men do with their most priced possesion as they themselves want. Are you guys prepared to get a Prince Albert piercing too, if that turns out to be popular among women?

In the US, women are exposed to images of the cimcumsized penis from an early age. That might be different in other countries, but that is what most women here expect. Yeah, the probably get over that, but it is something that most American woman have pre-concieved images of.

quote:

Also, for those of you in favour of allowing parents to circumcise their newborns, and compare it with having your daughter's ears pierced: Why not compare it with the real pendant, namely female circumcision? Do you also support this - and to what degree? Is a sewn-up fully-mutilated girl your kind of dream date?

Removing a flap of skin on the penis and what goes on in female circumcision, as well as the ideals behind it, are on two completely different scales. I'd more likely put male circumcision on par with infant vaccinations than to famale circumcision.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono Removing a flap of skin on the penis and what goes on in female circumcision, as well as the ideals behind it, are on two completely different scales. I'd more likely put male circumcision on par with infant vaccinations than to famale circumcision.

vaccinations aren't surgical procedures, and you aren't set to lose sensetivity in your sexual organs as a result of them (supposedly, ok? )

and i'd like a serious response from NeoPhono in regards to this:

1.A. If you lose a lot of youre penis' nerve endings
1.B. You will experience less pleasure from sexual acts

2.A. If you wear your penis' glans (which is said to be the equivalant of a clitoris, wikipedia for one supports the hypothesis that the glans is homologous to the clitoral glans)
2.B. You will experience less pleasure from sexual acts

is this biased information?
is it false information?
are the B statements not the obvious results of the A condtions??

if not, and the circumcision procedure involves cutting off a part of the skin that has a lot of nerve endings aswell as seving to protect the penis' glans from wear (as many sources i've read state), then by pure healthy logic - you will experience less pleasure from sexual acts.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Phew, what a relief. I'd be going off half-cocked all the time and probably would've impregnated 500+ women by now!

[blind man]phew, what a relief. i'd be overexposed to the world![/blind man]

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Bottom line, I'm happy with my dick. It works flawlessly and gives me great pleasure. If you prefer yours with foreskin on or you are circumcised and feel bitterness about it for whatever reason, go getcha one of these puppies.

latex has nerve endings that are compatible with my body? it can also restore the functionality of my penis' glans? jeez, that's news to me - sign me up!

This thread is too gay.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant This thread is too gay.

This response is too homophobic.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.