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-- 2006 trance VS 1999 trance.... its dead now
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You're chasing Amy man, people have always been saying trance is dead and will continue to whether it is or not. Music changes, YOU change, and I'm sorry but there is no way you can look at the music from your past without bias because no matter how hard you try there is still some nostalgia there that sways your opinion. I don't really see trance getting less popular either, hell it seems to be getting more popular in the states lately (although drum n bass and house/jungle still pervade most clubs). The only real thing I've noticed lately is the influx of prog, but there's still plenty of trance to be found and honestly It doesn't seem any different to me than the old stuff from 99 and up to 03. You can't expect music to stay the same man, just keep looking for the good stuff and don't get caught up in glorifying the past.

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Originally posted by Tak Dub Bam BBE vs TTD '99 vs '06 I Win.

Vengaboys - Kiss (Airscape Remix) vs Cape Town - Proglifter
'98 vs '06
I win.

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Originally posted by DJ NEMESIS Why is it that I have heaps of stuff from 1999-2003 that sounded better to me then as well as still to this day than 99% of 2005/2006 trance?

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Originally posted by paulandrews Vengaboys - Kiss (Airscape Remix) vs Cape Town - Proglifter '98 vs '06 I win.

Good shot my friend! Tie?

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Originally posted by DJ NEMESIS That's really not it. I know the difference between appreciating something for it's nostalgic relevance, or appreciating something strictly for what it is. That wasn't the music that got me into it, or even the music that got me started with DJing. If that was the case I'd be pulling out my old Reactivate 9 & 10 records from 94/95 etc. I'm talking about specifically trance from 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002.. which also happens to be trance from when it was at it's peak. It's not some unexplainable cultarul phenomenon how trance took a massive plunge after that in terms of it's respectability and appreciation globally. House has been around all through that time and it hasn't suffered that fate. The productions just went downhill. The music stopped being interesting or captivating to a lot of people myself included. It doesn't mean I just grew out of Trance and that I'm not able to appreciate a great trance track.. because once in a while I do hear something great that really stands out. The harder it is for people to find great tracks though or the less great tracks there are to go around, the more shitty stuff you are going to hear people playing and progressively that will turn people off of the music or going to the events.

Well, since trance got the massive respect, recognition and popularity, it�s logical that there are lots of people nowadays who�re crying about todays state. The more popular something is, the bigger expectations for the future are. The whole process of progression is absolutely logical, new people are coming to the scene and have the same feelings as people who started listening in 1998. People are still dying to hear the new tracks, they love how todays trance sounds. There might be some global decrease of popularity, but this does not happen because trance went downhill, it�s because we don�t have any more Sylver, Aqua, Vengaboys and all this cheesy stuff which hit the top spots of the world-wide charts and caused that many people got an interest in EDM as a whole. It was a trend which influenced many people.

Have you some specific idea how should trance sound like today? Or is it only 'like it was in 98-02'? If it stayed the same, wouldn�t it be a lot boring? Ferry mixed trance with electro and techno and pushed the genre forwards and we can read how many people are displeased with these kind of experiments, so what is the solution for you? Trance is still made spontaneously, ATRC was made in 2 hours, Escape was made just because Airbase was bored and played with some sounds a bit, the same story is behind Incognition and so on. What exactly do you miss?

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Originally posted by Tak Dub Bam Good shot my friend! Tie?

Tie

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Originally posted by Dyshein You're chasing Amy man, people have always been saying trance is dead and will continue to whether it is or not.

They weren't saying that in 1999/00. Everywhere you looked it was big headlines about THE YEAR OF TRANCE etc. Trance dominated. It was massive.

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there is no way you can look at the music from your past without bias because no matter how hard you try there is still some nostalgia there that sways your opinion.

Sorry man, but I know the difference between appreciating something for nostalgic reasons or not. I have stacks of records dating back from over a decade ago when I started and I know the difference between the ones I appreciate for their nostalgic qualities vs stuff that is just brilliantly well done compared to most of today's tracks and that I could bring out and play and expect to get a huge response from.

For example, this year between a few different shows I pulled out Tilt - Invisible (Lost Tribe rmx), plus Art of Trance - Madagascar (Push rmx), Nitromethane - Time To Die (Seraque mix), and also Ambassador - The Fade. Each of them absolutely killed and this was not even to a trance crowd. Massive tracks that stand out so greatly and are truly timeless classics. Where have the new massive timeless classics been since 2003? Few & far between. What happened to lord Armin and his consistent flow of massive productions? Do many of you guys look forward to his releases (or Tiesto's) with much anticipation anymore? I know I don't.. along with a big list of other previously reliable bang-on trance producers.

You can deny what's been going on, but when you're Scott Bond flying overseas a few thousand miles to play somewhere and you are met with a dancefloor of 30 people, you'd probably feel a bit differently.
Or when you yourself realize that your booking schedule is drastically decreasing and that there are less people wanting to do trance events/club nights as well as a scarce population of people to support the ones that do happen. Or being a promoter and flying people in from the uk only to lose money from lack of support.

None of these things lead to a very good place, although in the same sense they aren't noticable from the comfy chair you sit in while viewing these forums and playing your favorite trance tunes.

The only way to reverse some of the negative effects is to figure out what happened, what's wrong, what contributed to it, and figure out how to breathe some life & magic back into it however possible.

I'm sure there are plenty of trance DJs reading this board who would love to have more bookings, more people attending, more places to play at. Promoters being able to pull off successful events. And generally trance not being such a bad word to so many people.

Not to mention not as many people bitching about how crappy everything is!

i think you just expect too much...
there are many artists that remain loyal to their stiles for 10 years and more and some new artists going old school, trance is not dead it is just the way it is, trance repeats itself like any other music...
listen to infected mushrooms stuff from the last two years listen to dark nebula enc...
thogh infected do experiment with some out of trance sounds but most of their recent tracks from the last couple of years are pure psytrance with a twist

@ DJ Nemisis, thats a well written post and I buy most of what you're saying...

So, is 2006, like the year of Hip-hop? And is that why trance is dead... because its not part of pop culture anymore?

Get this, trance HAS changed... and so has R n' B, House, Rock, and a whole bunch of other genres. Sub genres like Emo (????) have cropped up.. and yes, the music scene IS evolving.

Maybe we aren't... and that's the problem. Maybe we're looking for the next big wave... but hoping its gonna sound like that last one we loved so much. That rush of emotion you felt, when you first heard the sound that made your nerve endings tingle... that's probably not gonna happen again... coz you've been there, heard that, and instead of moving ahead... just got stuck in a hole.

There are scores of people being drawn into the sound today who love "trance" as its defined today.. Does that make them morons? Or unworthy of "trance".

If there really has been a demise of trance, as you knew it in '99... and it was such hot shit.. then why aren't more producers making it? Because then it would all just sound the same, and the people whining about trance being dead.. would instead be whining about how the sound hasn't changed in 12 years. Just because trance doesn't sell as much, or has declined in overall popularity, doesn't mean its "dead".

And if it is, then Why, like someone else said,is Godskitchen going to be packed to the rafters this year?

What you could try, is getting off the internet and go out to support your local DJ. He's probably playing some insane sounds that Tiesto never will... and no, it doesn't sound like '99 "real" trance either. I wish more people on this forum did something about the sound they love instead of constantly whinging that trance is dead.

It isn't... your brain cells are.

It's time to evolve or die.

What exactly do you mean 2006 vs 1999 Trance?

Keep reminiscing....

Trance hasn't died, it's still there for a fact. Sooner or later, you'll either stick with the flow or just move onto something else. Music evolves.

this thread has never been made before! thank you for enriching us all with a fresh new perspective on things!

You're welcome, BITCH!

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Originally posted by Rainborn You're welcome, BITCH!

dob: 1990 huh? talk to me when your balls drop kiddo

Me thinks I'll pull a SYSTEM-J here...

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Originally posted by DJ NEMESIS They weren't saying that in 1999/00. Everywhere you looked it was big headlines about THE YEAR OF TRANCE etc. Trance dominated. It was massive.

Yeah, it was. Of course, having some guy by the name of Paul Oakenfold touring with U2 probably helped give trance some massive exposure to the non-EDM crowds. As I recall, it wasn't so much about the music itself (which had remained somewhat consistant and still shared mostly equal billing with house at many clubs) but the scene it created -superstar DJs; ecstacy (the drug became VERY popular with the collage crowd around this time); super-spiffy PR campaigns; etc. The massive exposure all this hype generated DID get a number of crafty producers jumping on the bandwagon though, so, yes, there was a little more innovation during that time as folks weren't too afraid to experiment more.

quote:

Sorry man, but I know the difference between appreciating something for nostalgic reasons or not. I have stacks of records dating back from over a decade ago when I started and I know the difference between the ones I appreciate for their nostalgic qualities vs stuff that is just brilliantly well done compared to most of today's tracks and that I could bring out and play and expect to get a huge response from. For example, this year between a few different shows I pulled out Tilt - Invisible (Lost Tribe rmx), plus Art of Trance - Madagascar (Push rmx), Nitromethane - Time To Die (Seraque mix), and also Ambassador - The Fade. Each of them absolutely killed and this was not even to a trance crowd. Massive tracks that stand out so greatly and are truly timeless classics. Where have the new massive timeless classics been since 2003? Few & far between. What happened to lord Armin and his consistent flow of massive productions? Do many of you guys look forward to his releases (or Tiesto's) with much anticipation anymore? I know I don't.. along with a big list of other previously reliable bang-on trance producers.

Heh. I never cared about Armin's productions to begin with but, according to his fanboys, Sail is such a track. And, really, I don't see why it couldn't be a classic, if only for the fact it rehashes damned near every single cliche epic trance has been plauged with for over half a decade. However, as I said, this is why stuff today just doesn't compare to the stuff of yesteryear. We've heard it all before. A tune like First State's First State or Kay Stone's Alone would have been huge in the year 2000. Now, not so much to the 'experienced' trancer, but such tracks would probably still get a reaction on the same crowd you played for.

quote:

You can deny what's been going on, but when you're Scott Bond flying overseas a few thousand miles to play somewhere and you are met with a dancefloor of 30 people, you'd probably feel a bit differently. Or when you yourself realize that your booking schedule is drastically decreasing and that there are less people wanting to do trance events/club nights as well as a scarce population of people to support the ones that do happen. Or being a promoter and flying people in from the uk only to lose money from lack of support.

What's been going on is all those casual partiers that made trance the super-popular scene that it was at the turn of the century have all moved on. Most partiers last five years before moving on with their lives (finally landing that job they went to collage for; raising a family; etc.). Many of them weren't exactly fans of trance music to begin with, but fans of the party scene that grew up around it.

Casual partiers are kind of fickle when it comes to which scene they will gorge themselves on. When the media jumped on the 80s revival and declared 'electro' the new cool, everyone begun to flock to that scene instead, and that's where most of the partiers have been ever since. Sure, they'll still come out to see a huge trance headliner, but only because it's a guaranteed draw, with a guaranteed packed house. They never cared about trance music in the first place, only the party the hype created. All that's left are the hardliners (many of which are starting to branch off into other genres no less), and the newbies.

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None of these things lead to a very good place, although in the same sense they aren't noticable from the comfy chair you sit in while viewing these forums and playing your favorite trance tunes. The only way to reverse some of the negative effects is to figure out what happened, what's wrong, what contributed to it, and figure out how to breathe some life & magic back into it however possible.

The only way "'99 will return" is for the media to jump on trance again. Simple as. If trance parties are deemed cool again, casual partiers will start checking them out, and producers will get crafty, willing to take chances in their music since its popularity will mean less of a financial risk. Most trance producers these days are too afraid to take such chances because they're afraid they'll loose the crowd they've managed to retain as it is, hence all the uninspired, samey-sounding tracks (except for the psy scene, which doesn't seem to give a fuck, God bless).

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I'm sure there are plenty of trance DJs reading this board who would love to have more bookings, more people attending, more places to play at. Promoters being able to pull off successful events. And generally trance not being such a bad word to so many people. Not to mention not as many people bitching about how crappy everything is!

Hah! Compared to the noisecore scene, trance DJs have it easy.

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Originally posted by Ishkur

you won

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Originally posted by nikhil chinapa So, is 2006, like the year of Hip-hop? And is that why trance is dead... because its not part of pop culture anymore? There are scores of people being drawn into the sound today who love "trance" as its defined today.. Does that make them morons? Or unworthy of "trance". Just because trance doesn't sell as much, or has declined in overall popularity, doesn't mean its "dead". And if it is, then Why, like someone else said,is Godskitchen going to be packed to the rafters this year? What you could try, is getting off the internet and go out to support your local DJ. He's probably playing some insane sounds that Tiesto never will... and no, it doesn't sound like '99 "real" trance either.

Hip hop doesn't really count, since we're only talking EDM here. But by the looks of things apparently 2006 is the year of electro since that's what so many people seem to be surging to. The thing is, the "scores of people" you're referrring to are small handfulls compared to previously. Not enough to keep things strong. I have my own disappointment, theories, and standards of what I expect a great trance track to sound like... but if there were enough new people in the scene loving this new stuff to actually make the scene thrive then that would be fine with me. I've already had to evolve to the changes. But for me to completely turn my back on the style that was the core of my existence, or be okay with watching it slide further into obscurity and lose it's respectability, and to see my friends who struggle trying to keep it alive... these are things I'm not really okay about.

These days if I want to go and support my friends' trance night it usually means going alone, since hardly anyone I know can be convinced to go with me regardless of having full guestlist to bring them out. That's not good. Neither is going to see someone like Scott Bond, the legend behind Gatecrasher, playing to a dancefloor of 30 people. If things continue like this my friend's could end up losing their night which is the only trance night here in vancouver. They deserve to have a lot more support for their efforts in trying to keep the trance scene alive.
Godskitchen being packed, or Armin or Tiesto's shows being packed are great but what about the rest of the world and the rest of the clubnights. What about your favorite local trance DJs in each of your areas? Will the next Armin or Tiesto or PVD even make it there with such lack of support/respect for the music and scarce dancefloors? People flocking to see a top 10 dj is like people that want to see the world's largest ball of string... you'll get tonnes of people going simply because culture tells them it's supposed to be the biggest & best there is.

I believe there's a huge difference between how trance is accepted in Europe and the US/Canada. Trance is being played all over Europe. I went to Greece this summer and was surprised to hear so much trance.
Go to a jeans shop where lots of teenagers come, and what is played...?
There even are shops where a DJ is playing and mixing his vinyls.
The number of events is still massive over here. Armin was very surprised about the amount of people who visited his gig in Spain last week. Also in East-European countries like Slovakia, Croatia, etc. trance is becoming more and more popular.

Maybe Trance was more like a hype in the US and Canada and not so accepted by the mass as in Europe.

Also I believe from a technical point of view the equipment doesn't evolve that fast any more. PC's are fast enough and can handle more instruments at the same time then needed.

Ermmm ok it's not dead but there are no "synaesthesias", "choral reefs", "saltwaters", "seven cities", "gouryellas", "gamemasters","invinsibles", "universal nations"...bla bla bla (+200 tunes) there are filo and peris with f*cking boring reefs and female vocals saying "how she misses an ordinary moment with her boyfriend" FFS!!!It's definitely not the same!It's muuchh more linear and uninspired this days and has nothing to do with the original "spiritual 90s fluorescent epicness" that trance was popular for. Like it or not current trance meens sure money...

Hey lads i think he's onto something big here.

first step: Acknowledging and seeing the problem
second step: Trying to figure out how the hell it happened
third step: Figuring out what can be done to help things back on course and heal the problems however possible.

64,000 members on this board, plus the fact that guests logged on are usually nearly double the amount of registered users.
Anyone ever stop and think if this site could be made more useful to supporting/strengthening the trance scene than it is?

We already saw a sign of what can be possible by the people who got Mikey voted to 110 or whatever it was on the top 100 djs. Anyone wonder what else can be done? Something that's more useful to the trance scene rather than just a novelty for cheap entertainment?

I completely agree with DJ Nemesis and understand where he's coming from. Anyone who claims that today's "trance" is merely an evolution from past styles is either naive, a fool, or both.

The card of nostalgia is played too eagerly, without much to back it up. I've taken to working backwards through the 90s to find material to spin, since the standards of days past are superior in all qualities to today's mindnumbing slosh (except perhaps in mastering). How can this be attributable to nostalgia if I never lived through it the first time? This is a matter of quality, not excuses like "nostalgia" and "evolution", which people pretend to believe. Anyone with a bit of sense knows trance is long dead; the real disagreement lies in why.

Listen to a Sven V�th set from '94, or a Paul van Dyk set from '97, or a Sasha set from 2000. The fact that trance of any serious stripe has disappered is self-evident.

The only areas with any promise right now are some of the progressive/psy movements and perhaps the melodic strains of some German techno. But no one dare call it trance.

I've seen it all take place from an insider's perspective.. from my involvements with DJing & promoting since 1995.

One of the biggest problems has been oversaturation.

There are a million djs, bedroom producers, digital labels, online radio shows. The amount of half assed stuff out there has been overwhelming and swamping the quality stuff and also in some ways killing it off or helping it to go unnoticed more.

The "magic" has been taken away in some great extent. Having your own track out, or your own radio show, or your own label is not that much of a big deal at all anymore because everyone's got one.

The people who are actually doing great stuff and contributing to the scene more need to be supported and recognized better. For example, right now TA has a bad rep with so many contributors to the scene because they think it's just a flame haven and they'd rather not participate and subject themselve to that kind of attack, attitude, & scrutiny. When meanwhile it would not only make TA better and more interesting to have them participating, but also it would be helpful and supportive to them if the site were to be more of a useful tool for them.

Without the support.. be it online, or showing up to the events, or buying the tracks, those people will burn out slowly and then you're left with one less great producer, one less radio show, one less promoter, one less weekly clubnight etc.

When the foundation crumbles, the house collapses!

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt I completely agree with DJ Nemesis and understand where he's coming from. Anyone who claims that today's "trance" is merely an evolution from past styles is either naive, a fool, or both. The card of nostalgia is played too eagerly, without much to back it up. I've taken to working backwards through the 90s to find material to spin, since the standards of days past are superior in all qualities to today's mindnumbing slosh (except perhaps in mastering). How can this be attributable to nostalgia if I never lived through it the first time? This is a matter of quality, not excuses like "nostalgia" and "evolution", which people pretend to believe. Anyone with a bit of sense knows trance is long dead; the real disagreement lies in why. Listen to a Sven V�th set from '94, or a Paul van Dyk set from '97, or a Sasha set from 2000. The fact that trance of any serious stripe has disappered is self-evident. The only areas with any promise right now are some of the progressive/psy movements and perhaps the melodic strains of some German techno. But no one dare call it trance.

I agree totally (despite what Sykonee has slandered my good, fence-sitting name with). I'm digging up trance today that I never heard at the time, and quite often from years before I was even listening to trance. I'm listening to this stuff for the first time in 2006 when it was made years ago, and it sounds light years ahead of most of the crap that's out today.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J (despite what Sykonee has slandered my good, fence-sitting name with).

I meant your tendency to 'clip-quote'.

@ DJ Nemisis.. the scene you're describing in Canada has a lot in similar with the scene in India... Though here, its more generic EDM thats suffered, not only trance.

We tried something out 3 years ago... and we've had a lot of success... And now we have regular, but small EDM nights across the country... and some massive ones too..

We started a weekly ground event, branded it... gave it a name.. SUBMERGE, did the marketing around it... and the entire team work as volunteers. The team consists of DJs, their friends.. and people into EDM.

We then launched the website and the forum in December and March this year, respectively... and its doing really well, by local standards... more details are on www.submerge.in

Maybe you and your buddies could try something similar... we started our first night with 30 friends too...

All the best.

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