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-- More discrimination against English speakers in Quebec
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malek's right, there is no POLICE driving around in their marked OLF (office de langue francaise) police cars looking for infractions.

All it takes is 1 complaint from a resident to get the ball rolling. They send an inspector, the inspector investigates, then gives a warning to the person/business at fault. And normally, the person/business has 'x' number of days to make the change before getting fined.

Does it really make a difference if a 'The Bay' sign is 2/3rds the size of the 'La Baie' sign? no. WHO CARES. The vast vast majority of the English population here can read/speak/write French anyways.

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Originally posted by malek dude trust me on this one. There's no language police. cases are opened only after complaints by the public.

Of course thet are not 'police' with badges and uniforms, lol, it's a euphemism.

But no, trust ME... ask the shop owners in the Snowdon area, the strip malls in CSL, and Westmount in the Sherbrooke and Victoria area.

Owners complain of the same people, taking pictures outside and inside their stores, and the next few days the shopowners get a letter. Remember the one seen going around in the city of Sherbrooke in a huge language sweep in the stores?

So you think Schwarz's on the Main changed their signs because of complaints? Which private individual would complain of language on a city's landmark, other than pure-laine p�quiste with the OLF?

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Originally posted by Abercrombie Which private individual would complain of language on a city's landmark, other than pure-laine p�quiste with the OLF?

the pure-laine population, not necessarily an official of the OLF.
Any citizen that makes a complaint results in an investigation.

abercombie: of course man, there's some zealots running around trying to find shit with cameras, but these are defienatly not government workers.

Shwartz is a trademark, you can have it in english. Like the "THE UPS STORE" chain which is driving the zealots crazy. The OLF does not touch trademarks.

The guys at KFC decided to have a distinct trademark in Quebec to suit the market dynamics. And we're not the only ones who get that treatment:

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Originally posted by malek About those "universal" stop signs: Notice how all these use the "stop" word... etc etc... and the reason why the French use "Stop" in France its because its EU standardized.

I never argued that some countries didnt have their own language in a stop sign. What i said was that the motherland, france, had STOP and that didnt make them any less french. So why shouldnt Quebec be the same way? I have no problem if they want to put Arret on the signs but i DO have a problem when it's forced to be that way by the government.

And STOP signs in France said STOP long before there was even such a thing as the EU

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Originally posted by malek abercombie: of course man, there's some zealots running around trying to find shit with cameras, but these are defienatly not government workers. Shwartz is a trademark, you can have it in english. Like the "THE UPS STORE" chain which is driving the zealots crazy. The OLF does not touch trademarks. The guys at KFC decided to have a distinct trademark in Quebec to suit the market dynamics. And we're not the only ones who get that treatment:

I notice that in all your examples it still says KFC and i am willing to bet that the only reason they changed the writing was because the local language did not use roman italics. Id be interested to see if KFC changes it's name to suit a roman italic name. For example, ive never seen a PFK (Pollo Fritas Kentucky) in any latin american country. Its always been straight up KFC. Same in Europe.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 I never argued that some countries didnt have their own language in a stop sign. What i said was that the motherland, france, had STOP and that didnt make them any less french. So why shouldnt Quebec be the same way? I have no problem if they want to put Arret on the signs but i DO have a problem when it's forced to be that way by the government. And STOP signs in France said STOP long before there was even such a thing as the EU

street signs are regulated by the government not by neighbourhoods. So if the government wants it to be Arret, then its gonna be arret.

Did you mean that every hood can have its own sign?? all we need is stops in italian in little italy, chinese in chinatown, etc... no thanks.

France can do whatever they want, they're not surrounded by 300 millions people speaking a single other language. They don't feel their language being threatned.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 I notice that in all your examples it still says KFC and i am willing to bet that the only reason they changed the writing was because the local language did not use roman italics. Id be interested to see if KFC changes it's name to suit a roman italic name. For example, ive never seen a PFK (Pollo Fritas Kentucky) in any latin american country. Its always been straight up KFC. Same in Europe.

Well I wrote it before, the OLF does not interfer with trademarks.

Thats why we have Canadian Tire, Tim Whoretons, The UPS store, McDonald's, etc etc.

If the KFC guys changed their name to PFK its only because its a good buisness practice not to alienate your clientele.


on a side note: I listen to news on the radio and tv everyday and this story never popped because no one gives a shit about this anymore. Its only guys west of the Outaouais who get worked up about them.

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Originally posted by malek street signs are regulated by the government not by neighbourhoods. So if the government wants it to be Arret, then its gonna be arret.

fair enough for street signs but what about private signage?

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Did you mean that every hood can have its own sign?? all we need is stops in italian in little italy, chinese in chinatown, etc... no thanks.

no i dont want that either

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France can do whatever they want, they're not surrounded by 300 millions people speaking a single other language. They don't feel their language being threatned.

Yes they are, its called Europe

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Originally posted by malek Well I wrote it before, the OLF does not interfer with trademarks. Thats why we have Canadian Tire, Tim Whoretons, The UPS store, McDonald's, etc etc. If the KFC guys changed their name to PFK its only because its a good buisness practice not to alienate your clientele. on a side note: I listen to news on the radio and tv everyday and this story never popped because no one gives a shit about this anymore. Its only guys west of the Outaouais who get worked up about them.

Actually... PFK was imposed on them. Im old enough to remember the controversy quite well.

jayx, this is going nowhere.

France is surrounded by German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, etc none of them being as strong as English in North America with over 300M surrounding a tiny 7M French Population.

If nothing is done to protect it, it'll be a second louisiana, where French there is now gone.


and about KFC/PFK, i'm 100% sure you're wrong or have misunderstood it.

Here's an article from 2000 about some fanatics bombing Second Cup Caf�s:


Bouchard attacks bombs in French sign fight
Last Updated Sat Oct 7 00:15:22 2000

MONTREAL - Quebec Premier Lucien Bouchard has condemned the use of bombs or other violence against companies that display English-only signs in the province.

On Friday, the president of the Second Cup coffee chain said his company would not be intimidated by recent scare tactics.

Undetonated bomb found behind a Second Cup

Thursday night, a molotov cocktail exploded at a Second Cup cafe in Montreal. No one was injured. Police found similar explosive devices planted at two other outlets � one near a gas main.

Fifteen investigators have been assigned to the case, and detectives said they may be close to making an arrest.

Last month, a group called the "French Self-Defence Brigade" warned that it would go after businesses with English names, including the Second Cup.

Bouchard told reporters that he hopes the bombing is an isolated incident.

Premier Bouchard comments on bombs

"I strongly condemn those things," the premier said. "I reject them with indignation and, I would say, anger."

The head of Second Cup, Randy Powell, called a news conference and said the company had no intention of adopting a French version of its name in Quebec.

He said the chain, which has 43 stores in the province, enjoys an internationally recognized trademark.

In September, a provincial government advisory board ruled that big companies such as Second Cup and Burger King don't have to adopt French names on their signs.

The Conseil de la Langue Francaise said that Quebec's language law doesn't apply to signs that are legal trademarks.

Some large companies have already changed their signs in Quebec. Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC), for instance, calls itself Poulet frit Kentucky, or PFK. And Shopper's Drug Mart is known as Pharmaprix.

Thursday's bombing came on the 30th anniversary of the kidnapping of British trade commissioner James Cross � an act of terrorism that began what Canadians now refer to as the "October Crisis".

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Originally posted by malek jayx, this is going nowhere. France is surrounded by German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, etc none of them being as strong as English in North America with over 300M surrounding a tiny 7M French Population. If nothing is done to protect it, it'll be a second louisiana, where French there is now gone. and about KFC/PFK, i'm 100% sure you're wrong or have misunderstood it. Here's an article from 2000 about some fanatics bombing Second Cup Caf�s: Bouchard attacks bombs in French sign fight Last Updated Sat Oct 7 00:15:22 2000 MONTREAL - Quebec Premier Lucien Bouchard has condemned the use of bombs or other violence against companies that display English-only signs in the province. On Friday, the president of the Second Cup coffee chain said his company would not be intimidated by recent scare tactics. Undetonated bomb found behind a Second Cup Thursday night, a molotov cocktail exploded at a Second Cup cafe in Montreal. No one was injured. Police found similar explosive devices planted at two other outlets � one near a gas main. Fifteen investigators have been assigned to the case, and detectives said they may be close to making an arrest. Last month, a group called the "French Self-Defence Brigade" warned that it would go after businesses with English names, including the Second Cup. Bouchard told reporters that he hopes the bombing is an isolated incident. Premier Bouchard comments on bombs "I strongly condemn those things," the premier said. "I reject them with indignation and, I would say, anger." The head of Second Cup, Randy Powell, called a news conference and said the company had no intention of adopting a French version of its name in Quebec. He said the chain, which has 43 stores in the province, enjoys an internationally recognized trademark. In September, a provincial government advisory board ruled that big companies such as Second Cup and Burger King don't have to adopt French names on their signs. The Conseil de la Langue Francaise said that Quebec's language law doesn't apply to signs that are legal trademarks. Some large companies have already changed their signs in Quebec. Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC), for instance, calls itself Poulet frit Kentucky, or PFK. And Shopper's Drug Mart is known as Pharmaprix. Thursday's bombing came on the 30th anniversary of the kidnapping of British trade commissioner James Cross � an act of terrorism that began what Canadians now refer to as the "October Crisis".

Aaah ok.. well i do remember in the 80s they were being forced to do so. I guess there have been court rulings since. But i do remember when kentucky fried chicken was forced to change to french. Perhaps after the law or regulation was tossed out they decided to keep it french anyways?

As for the law being needed to "protect french". Honestly english is everywhere, including even places like thailand and china where i have been recently. And that doesnt make them less cultural. Quebec needs to grow up and join the global community. For a place that considers themselves to be their own "nation" they act pretty provincial.

Quebec is not populous enough so it can keep its culture alive by itself without regulations.

I can't remember when and where exactly, but I think UNESCO came with a study about cultures with one of their conclusions being that a population of less than 15 millions will have a great deal of difficulties in the future keeping its culture alive and especially with the globalization of culture or more frankly the americanization of cultures.

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Originally posted by loca That's a pretty lame thing to do. How about the tourists who come to Quebec now? Are they going to have to learn french before they go there just to make sure they can get around? If the rest of Canada has signs in both languages why is it so damn hard for Quebec to do so themselves? This all sounds very anal to me. (And before anyone jumps on me, i'm a french speaker, i just happen to agree with bilingual signs)

Totally agree with you on this one. My dad is driving to Nova Scotia later in the summer and has to pass through Quebec. He has NO idea how to speak French and is not about to learn it now, especially since he's only driving through.

If they are allowed to do that I don't see why it's such a need to have english and french on our signs. I say screw them and only have english. If they can't help us, why should we help them?

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Originally posted by all-nite-freak dude, stick to politics in your own province. Im an anglo, and i have no qualms witht the french signs.It makes this city different and unique in times that other Canadian cities are starting to feel more american like.90% of the time i speak in English, but still when i go to Toronto its so english its like culture shock.English people in Montreal just have to adapt to their surroundings and learn some french.Are you goint to start a thread blaming those damn germans for having signs in german? if people want to live here learn french, if they dont want to learn then its their fault that they are ignorant and wont educate themselves.

I'm so late on the ball for this, but I'd have to agree with the above. Even though many would love to say TO is different and English does not equal Americal, TO is getting to be more and more like the bigger US cities...
I love the culture and the people in Quebec, and anything done to preserve this should be encouraged.

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* If they are allowed to do that I don't see why it's such a need to have english and french on our signs. I say screw them and only have english. If they can't help us, why should we help them?

Its this kind of mentality that should be avoided. Unfortunately, its not unique to either side, as both have hostilities towards the other.

...Maybe its time I learn to speak French. Any good advice on that endeavor?

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* Totally agree with you on this one. My dad is driving to Nova Scotia later in the summer and has to pass through Quebec. He has NO idea how to speak French and is not about to learn it now, especially since he's only driving through. If they are allowed to do that I don't see why it's such a need to have english and french on our signs. I say screw them and only have english. If they can't help us, why should we help them?

He'll notice that every exit off the highways lead to a town in Quebec called Sortie.

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