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-- Miller wants to tear down Gardiner
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quote:

Originally posted by malek aren't highways provincial jurisdiction?

Yep. Though in Canadian politics, jurisdiction is more or less a blur...

quote:

Originally posted by malek aren't highways provincial jurisdiction?

could of sworn highways were federal.

only the gardiner was paid by toronto. let me try to look for a source on that.

edit: DVP is paid by toronto as well.

source: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/02/21/give-gardiner-dvp-to-the-province-mayor-s-panel.aspx

but the rest of the highways were provincial, not federal. my bad. so you were somewhat right.

quote:

Originally posted by lol internet could of sworn highways were federal. only the gardiner was paid by toronto. let me try to look for a source on that. edit: DVP is paid by toronto as well. source: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...or-s-panel.aspx but the rest of the highways were provincial, not federal. my bad. so you were somewhat right.

Technically, British North America Act divides spheres of responsibility among the 3 major govts (actually, just federal and provincial. Municipal gets like 1 half para) and highways, along with health care, education are suppose to be provincial jurisdiction.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Question, Do you drive? Next question, if you drive do you use the gardiner often?

i drive, but not for business.. i live downtown and walk to work, so my driving amounts to 10k a year.. i'm curious to see where you take this


could someone explain to me what is gardiner's purpose?

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan Technically, British North America Act divides spheres of responsibility among the 3 major govts (actually, just federal and provincial. Municipal gets like 1 half para) and highways, along with health care, education are suppose to be provincial jurisdiction.

and since cities are the creation of the province and under 100% of their jurisdiction, that highway is by extent provincial jurisdiction even if it was built by Toronto.

If Toronto had a major financial crisis or other, the province can step in and take over the city.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 could someone explain to me what is gardiner's purpose?

i don't really know what you mean by that question.

it's purpose is to carry cars.

originally it was supposed to go through scarborough and reach the 401. however, the leslie st extension was the only thing that was built and then eventually torn down.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 could someone explain to me what is gardiner's purpose?

like any city highways on earth, reduce street congestion and focus them on one stretch of road.

quote:

Originally posted by lol internet could of sworn highways were federal. only the gardiner was paid by toronto. let me try to look for a source on that. edit: DVP is paid by toronto as well. source: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...or-s-panel.aspx but the rest of the highways were provincial, not federal. my bad. so you were somewhat right.

In Ontario, the Provincial Government owns and operated the 400 series highways (except 407 which the sold to a Spanish company). They also own and manage all provincially designnated highways (crown head routes throughout the province).

Any other roads, highways, expressways, etc are owned and operated by the local municipality. The city of Toronto owns the Gardiner, DVP and Allen Expressway and is therefore responsible for all maintenance and can charge tolls, etc if they choose.

OS

quote:

Originally posted by lol internet could of sworn highways were federal. only the gardiner was paid by toronto. let me try to look for a source on that. edit: DVP is paid by toronto as well. source: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...or-s-panel.aspx but the rest of the highways were provincial, not federal. my bad. so you were somewhat right.

In Ontario, the Provincial Government owns and operates the 400 series highways (except 407 which they sold to a Spanish company). They also own and manage all provincially designnated highways (crown head routes throughout the province).

Any other roads, highways, expressways, etc are owned and operated by the local municipality. The city of Toronto owns the Gardiner, DVP and Allen Expressway and is therefore responsible for all maintenance and can charge tolls, etc if they choose.

OS

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky i don't really know what you mean by that question. it's purpose is to carry cars. originally it was supposed to go through scarborough and reach the 401. however, the leslie st extension was the only thing that was built and then eventually torn down.

this is my point.. gardiner is obsolete and serves no purpose now

TEAR IT DOWN!

So... What would handle the flow of Gardiner then?

Been a while since I played SimCity but the cars have to go somewhere...

You change people's habits. Get out of your car and use public transport. It's there for a reason..

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 use public transport

Ah yes. The inefficient TTC.
Now there's been enough rant about TTC before but I personally wouldn't trust TTC to get me to work in time, esp if I don't live on the subway line

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 You change people's habits. Get out of your car and use public transport. It's there for a reason..

Unfortunately the rich white yuppies here think that public transportation is for poor people and it's somehow detrimental to their ego's to make use of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan Ah yes. The inefficient TTC. Now there's been enough rant about TTC before but I personally wouldn't trust TTC to get me to work in time, esp if I don't live on the subway line

That's because you're a slave to conservative suburban ideology, and have succumbed to their propaganda. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the TTC, or GO train, or any other piece of public transit.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 You change people's habits. Get out of your car and use public transport. It's there for a reason..

STUPID. You can't just tear down a highway and expect people to readily substitute driving with public transit. It's not substituting apple juice for orange juice. I think if the TTC suddenly had to transport all the people who use the Gardiner daily, the service would crumble. It'd be an absolute nightmare. Not to mention certain public transit (GO) actually uses the Gardiner for its service. And lastly, wtf do you think all the trucks that deliver goods to the city will have to do? Use King St.?

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 That's because you're a slave to conservative suburban ideology, and have succumbed to their propaganda. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the TTC, or GO train, or any other piece of public transit.

Not true.

I take the bus to work. (though I usually get a drive back home because freaking bus route doesn't continue past 7pm)

I take Greyhound mostly whenenver I go to Toronto.

Now I haven't lived in Toronto regularly for 7 yrs, but exactly what improvements TTC made? Specially for people who live in East Scarborough or West Etobicoke? Would you spend like 2 hrs trying to get to downtown?

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 could someone explain to me what is gardiner's purpose?

other than making the city look horrible.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 You change people's habits. Get out of your car and use public transport. It's there for a reason..

For someone like myself....public transportation is absolutely useless. I need my vehicle for my job so I have no other choice...unless the TTC will take me throughout the GTA, Milton, Georgetown, Guelph, Oakville, Barrie, Newmarket, Orangeville, etc, etc, etc....and will do it on a minutes notice. If the TTC had a driver at my becon call then I would use it.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced For someone like myself....public transportation is absolutely useless. I need my vehicle for my job so I have no other choice...unless the TTC will take me throughout the GTA, Milton, Georgetown, Guelph, Oakville, Barrie, Newmarket, Orangeville, etc, etc, etc....and will do it on a minutes notice. If the TTC had a driver at my becon call then I would use it.

Here's a novel idea. Move to the city!

This is precisely the problem. See, gardiner is a byproduct of '60s (sub)urban planning in north america, which dictated that people work in the city and live in suburbs. This is has proven to be catastrophical in creating cohesive urban environments. So, gardiner is just a remnant of an obsolete belief, and no longer serves a purpose!

Why should the city have to pay $10m/annually, to maintain a failed philosophy? Or, why should I, by default, have to continue to inhale fumes of those driving into the city who refuse to use public transit?

And to answer your question, Go Train will take you to all those you towns specified in less than an hour.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 Here's a novel idea. Move to the city! This is precisely the problem. See, gardiner is a byproduct of '60s (sub)urban planning in north america, which dictated that people work in the city and live in suburbs. This is has proven to be catastrophical in creating cohesive urban environments. So, gardiner is just a remnant of an obsolete belief, and no longer serves a purpose! Why should the city have to pay $10m/annually, to maintain a failed philosophy? Or, why should I, by default, have to continue to inhale fumes of those driving into the city who refuse to use public transit? And to answer your question, Go Train will take you to all those you towns specified in less than an hour.

I could live at my office and it still would make no difference to the fact that I would need to have my vehicle for my job at a moments notice. I'm sorry...but if you were paying my bill I don't think you would want to pay the $110.00 an hour for me to sit on a bus.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I could live at my office and it still would make no difference to the fact that I would need to have my vehicle for my job at a moments notice. I'm sorry...but if you were paying my bill I don't think you would want to pay the $110.00 an hour for me to sit on a bus.

My post wasn't directed at you specifically, but at 99% of other commuters who live in suburbs, work in the city and refuse to utilize public transit.

mute, you can't just ignore the vehicle. not everyone can or will take public transit for many reasons with the main one being convenience. the two have to co-exist.

demolishing the whole gardiner isn't what is being proposed and for good reason. however, in 10 years or so when public transit infrastructure will be greatly improved, only then will i support the removal of the whole thing.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 My post wasn't directed at you specifically, but at 99% of other commuters who live in suburbs, work in the city and refuse to utilize public transit.

You're joking, right? Do you honestly believe that there are enough habitats in the downtown core to support your vision?

Not to mention that people have entire lives in their suburban areas outside of just work, so they'd still need their cars, in addition to paying twice as much for a downtown home (and it would be more than twice as much if everybody tried to move there) and even more for parking, which is incredibly scarce there.

I can only hope that these posts of yours have been tongue-in-cheek, because if you're actually serious, I'd have to wonder what planet you came from.

Ironically, a lot of the same people who swear by public transit are the same people who decry the proliferation of high-rise buildings. Hey, I know, let's institute population control measures like China, that'll solve our problems!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut You're joking, right? Do you honestly believe that there are enough habitats in the downtown core to support your vision? Not to mention that people have entire lives in their suburban areas outside of just work, so they'd still need their cars, in addition to paying twice as much for a downtown home (and it would be more than twice as much if everybody tried to move there) and even more for parking, which is incredibly scarce there. I can only hope that these posts of yours have been tongue-in-cheek, because if you're actually serious, I'd have to wonder what planet you came from. Ironically, a lot of the same people who swear by public transit are the same people who decry the proliferation of high-rise buildings. Hey, I know, let's institute population control measures like China, that'll solve our problems!

only double the cost to live downtown? that is a severe understatement.

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