Originally posted by Magnetonium
Here's a real life example - your friend really needed your help. You gave him money, economic support, and other help. Then while your friend is receiving all this help that YOU COULD'VE GAVE YOUR OWN FAMILY OR YOURSELF INSTEAD, this friend at the same time turns TO YOUR ENEMY for help and double-crosses you. What would you do?
These CIS countries are not friends. They're stabbing Russia right back, even though Russia helped financially and economically these countries for years since 1991. And what does Russia get for this now?
The US invested billions upon billions into Iraq, does that mean the Iraqis are a bunch of idiots who are now stabbing their savior in the back, since they are obviously turning to the US' enemies (the Muslim extremists)?
Posted by St_Andrew on Oct-08-2006 12:02:
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
Corruption is appalling in Russia. In 1990s when I lived in Sochi, Russia we joked about how police needs protection after gunmen chased police chief and his driver around the city, firing at him. No help came in for him. Eventually they got him to stop, and fired 3 rounds of AK-47 bullets in the driver and him, and wrecked the car.
But I never heard that on western news. All they care about is the Chechen war. We in Russia had bigger problems, with mafia mainly and how the government refuses to fight this cancer.
Obviously the Maffia didn't have a whole lot to benefit from her killing, but the authorities did. Don't you see the problem?
Posted by metalgearsolid on Oct-08-2006 14:22:
quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
The US invested billions upon billions into Iraq, does that mean the Iraqis are a bunch of idiots who are now stabbing their savior in the back, since they are obviously turning to the US' enemies (the Muslim extremists)?
That is different. The US supported a dictator that put him into power in Iraq. The Iraqis still have not forgotten about Saddam.
Posted by metalgearsolid on Oct-08-2006 14:26:
quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
Obviously the Mafia didn't have a whole lot to benefit from her killing, but the authorities did. Don't you see the problem?
The gov refuses to fight the mafia because it is the state. Putin is the Don.
St. Andrew what do you do with the Swedish mafia?
Posted by metalgearsolid on Oct-08-2006 14:29:
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
Corruption is appalling in Russia. In 1990s when I lived in Sochi, Russia we joked about how police needs protection after gunmen chased police chief and his driver around the city, firing at him. No help came in for him. Eventually they got him to stop, and fired 3 rounds of AK-47 bullets in the driver and him, and wrecked the car.
But I never heard that on western news. All they care about is the Chechen war. We in Russia had bigger problems, with mafia mainly and how the government refuses to fight this cancer.
We also care what Russia does with their mass media and natural resources. We are also aware of Organized crime. You just might not find it on mainstream media outlets.
Anyways, Russians sound like a crazy people.
How much vodka do you russkyes drink?
Posted by Marc Summers on Oct-08-2006 15:46:
I always felt that US always invested in other countries with their 'own' agenda behind.. they always ask for something in return like a true businessmen.. but when it comes to Russia helping these smaller countries.. its always selfless friendly support to a neighbour.. they dont ask for anything much back in return other than a 'Thank You' note.
Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-08-2006 16:55:
quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
The US invested billions upon billions into Iraq, does that mean the Iraqis are a bunch of idiots who are now stabbing their savior in the back, since they are obviously turning to the US' enemies (the Muslim extremists)?
LMAO ... I actually FELL OFF THE CHAIR ON THIS ONE!!! HAHAHA ... INVESTED OUT OF WHAT - THEIR ASS?? USA is ripping Iraq off by stealing oil, by bombing out the country and helping incite sectarian violence (British MI6 agents last year were caught with plastic explosives and bomb-making materials in Basra by Iraqi police), by placing that DREADFUL embargo on Iraq between 1991 and 2003 that killed an estimated 1 million people, mostly women and children, by bombing out the country's entire infrastructure in Gulf War and turning Iraq into a third world country, by paying off Iraq in 1980s to fight a brutal and senseless war against Iran in which many Iraqis died (for example, Americans gave Iraq such weapons as missiles and mustard gas), now America ALLEGEDLY INVESTED BILLIONS (haha) of dollars into oil sector, WHICH IT HOLDS UNDER SUPREME CONTROL (monopoly), and USA has yet to rebuild any of Iraq's infrastructure, school, hospitals, bla bla bla bla ... LOL, man, you are very funny.
Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-08-2006 17:15:
quote:
Originally posted by metalgearsolid
We also care what Russia does with their mass media and natural resources. We are also aware of Organized crime. You just might not find it on mainstream media outlets.
Anyways, Russians sound like a crazy people.
How much vodka do you russkyes drink?
We have a huge alcohol and drug problem in Russia. We have a huge problem with corrupt officials, ignorant bureaucrats like Putin, mafia.
Over 50,000 Russians drink themselves to death every year. 30,000 Russians die from car accidents every year. The population goes down 700,000 every year - and that was slowed down by immigration from CIS. I've never TRIED alcohol, cigarettes, drugs or any other bullshit EVER. I guess you can say I educated myself well ;-)
Russians are not crazy. They're depressed, stressed out by very negative changes - from comfortable stable Soviet life, to poverty, himuliation and misery of the democracy. So many resort to drugs, alcohol, pills, suicide, murder, theft ... I've seen it all, I saw how people lost it all in days. I lost very good friends to murder, suicide, drugs, mafia ... I have enough fucked-up moments stuck in the back of my mind. I kept my cool though ...
Now the government has lots of money, they have billions of dollars saved up, thanks to the government ownership of oil and gas industry (smart move!, oh wait, but WHY NOT SPEND THAT MONEY PROPERLY???). But they haven't spent much of it on the things that need to be done around the country, like infrastructure, pay doctors/teachers more, upgrade technology, devise smarter economic plans, root out corruption, etc.
Putin has many restrictions, from the West, from mafia, from his inner party. I dont see a positive change happening in Russia quickly, it will take long time because of corruption and mafia and western pressure to do things their way.
I would absolutely agree with that article, its very fair in my opinion. Thats how I feel, except the author is not criticising Georgia and USA enough. He's neutral. I'm leaning towards the pro-Russian views.
The article fails to note that Yushchenko and Saakashvilli were groomed by the West, they are American puppets. Americans actually tried building bases in Crimea this summer, but the local protests by ethnic Russians were so strong, the NATO ship with equipment some of which was marked with deadly symbols, were forced to retreat.
And all of that was attempted without the government's consultation of the people, but Ukraine voted over 80% against joining NATO. Dig that!
Posted by St_Andrew on Oct-08-2006 21:09:
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
LMAO ... I actually FELL OFF THE CHAIR ON THIS ONE!!! HAHAHA ... INVESTED OUT OF WHAT - THEIR ASS??
USA is ripping Iraq off by stealing oil, by bombing out the country and helping incite sectarian violence (British MI6 agents last year were caught with plastic explosives and bomb-making materials in Basra by Iraqi police), by placing that DREADFUL embargo on Iraq between 1991 and 2003 that killed an estimated 1 million people, mostly women and children, by bombing out the country's entire infrastructure in Gulf War and turning Iraq into a third world country, by paying off Iraq in 1980s to fight a brutal and senseless war against Iran in which many Iraqis died (for example, Americans gave Iraq such weapons as missiles and mustard gas), now America ALLEGEDLY INVESTED BILLIONS (haha) of dollars into oil sector, WHICH IT HOLDS UNDER SUPREME CONTROL (monopoly), and USA has yet to rebuild any of Iraq's infrastructure, school, hospitals, bla bla bla bla ... LOL, man, you are very funny.
You could easily do the comparision even here, Russia forced many of these countries to stay in the Soviet Union, even though they did not want to, etc etc.
You clearly missed my point though, my point is that Russia might have been giving these countries cheap gas, but ffs they have asked for a lot in return too. As fast as they don't have a Putin-loyal man in power they threaten with a lot of stuff, not only to cut cheap gas.
Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-08-2006 21:29:
quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
The US "invested" 330 billion something! And since oil production is actually lower now than before, the economic costs are actually bigger... http://nationalpriorities.org/index...pper&Itemid=182
You could easily do the comparision even here, Russia forced many of these countries to stay in the Soviet Union, even though they did not want to, etc etc.
You clearly missed my point though, my point is that Russia might have been giving these countries cheap gas, but ffs they have asked for a lot in return too. As fast as they don't have a Putin-loyal man in power they threaten with a lot of stuff, not only to cut cheap gas.
Are you joking around here today? For real. Thats the cost of the war to USA, thats NOT an investment! You dont know the meaning of the words. USA spent billions of dollars in the Vietnam war. I guess in your terminology, USA "invested" in 1.5 million Vietnamese deaths, a country littered with Agent Orange and other chemical weapons. They invested in using force to bring "democracy by force" to Vietnam. Thats quite a difference between me investing in stock.
So when will USA be getting its dividents? LOL ... The "investment" is going actually to buy weapons, drop bombs and shoot Iraqis ... WHAT A NICE INVESTMENT ....!!! An investment to bring oil back for Americans, an investment to leave Iraq bombed out, poor and in violence. How clever ... investment for corporations and world elite ... SUCK THAT OIL, BABY!!!! INVEST IN MY 10 MILLION DOLLAR VILLA!
Russia is not threatening Georgia with military force. It HAS ALREADY USED DIPLOMACY. IT PROTESTED WITH PREVIOUS GEORGIAN PROVOCATIONS, it asked EU to notice. Oh, nothing changed. NOW, Russia is pushing economic buttons to tell Georgia that it shouldn't continue creating tensions. So what, you think Russia should say "SORRY GEORGIA, HERE, HAVE ANOTHER 50 PERCENT OFF GAS, HAVE ANOTHER BILLION BUCKS, WE ARE SO SORRY". Thats why Russia is in this situation, because it was a pussy and let Georgia build up to start ppushing it around.
LOL ... of course Russia wants something in return!!! What do you think - Russia couldn't use that oil//gas for its own people? Its like, hey Georgia - have some cheap gas, while our own people are poor, starving, here, have some money. "Thanks for being nice", Russia, says Georgia. LOL, this is no cartoon. This is a deal, a discount for Georgian loyalty and friendship. But Georgia still wants the cheap oil and money, but its double-crossing Russia in the back by allying itself with USA and pressuring Russia out of the region! OH, RUSSIA IS SO EVIL ... THEY'VE SLAPPED ECONOMIC SANCTIONS ON US .... THEY'RE EVIL ... PLEASE, USA, HELP US.
Open your eyes a bit, man. You dont know whats going on.
Posted by tathi on Oct-08-2006 22:34:
quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
The US "invested" 330 billion something! And since oil production is actually lower now than before, the economic costs are actually bigger... http://nationalpriorities.org/index...pper&Itemid=182
I think you will find when the US invests money or aid into countries like Iraq or Afghanistan it makes sure the money comes back into its own pocket, its intentions are not altruistic at all. A good example is the highway built in Afghanistan which cost billions of dollars, they contracted the construction out to an American company who in turn subcontracted the work to a Turkish company who did it for it for a fraction of the cost, this meant the profits came back into the American company without them having to do any work. This is why America is losing the battle for the hearts and minds of people in Afghanistan, with 60% of its poppulation living in poverty and skyrocketing unemployment they watched on as the labour intensive construction of a highway which could have provided several thousand jobs to the Afghanis go to cheap Turkish labourers; you can understand why they have little love for the US.
The billions and billions of dollars that have gone back into the pockets of rich american companies through the war profiteering in Iraq and Afghanistan is mind boggling.
Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-08-2006 23:16:
quote:
Originally posted by tathi
I think you will find when the US invests money or aid into countries like Iraq or Afghanistan it makes sure the money comes back into its own pocket, its intentions are not altruistic at all. A good example is the highway built in Afghanistan which cost billions of dollars, they contracted the construction out to an American company who in turn subcontracted the work to a Turkish company who did it for it for a fraction of the cost, this meant the profits came back into the American company without them having to do any work. This is why America is losing the battle for the hearts and minds of people in Afghanistan, with 60% of its poppulation living in poverty and skyrocketing unemployment they watched on as the labour intensive construction of a highway which could have provided several thousand jobs to the Afghanis go to cheap Turkish labourers; you can understand why they have little love for the US.
The billions and billions of dollars that have gone back into the pockets of rich american companies through the war profiteering in Iraq and Afghanistan is mind boggling.
Yes, you know more about this economic thing that I do, but what you say makes much more sense. American politicians dont care and dont want to devise a proper plan that will make Afghani people's lives better.
Posted by astroboy on Oct-09-2006 04:10:
Russia's interests in Georgia have nothing to do with brotherhood or being good neighbours, or punishing someone for lack of gratitude (worst excuse I've ever heard). Almost all of Russia's attempts to influence the region have been motivated by an interest in Caspian oil. Russia's involvement is always underhanded and shifty (like the whole independance struggle between Abkhazia and Georgia).
The main reason I no longer support my former country in international affairs is the degradation of democracy and increased similarity to a soviet regime. Independant tv media is practically dead and the reports are increasingly self-indulgent and pompous. The political rhetoric is sounding increasingly Soviet (what do you expect with a fucking mussor kgb agent in charge). Putin is using the law to selectively punish those that speak out against him... and when he can't use the law, they tend to jump in front of bullets themselves. He's trying to build an autocratic state with a firm hold on surrounding nations. Meanwhile the economy is shithouse, no Western investor would have anything to do with the place. And no one gives a fuck... The people are so dumb and used to hearing grandiose Soviet rhetoric that they don't care about their freedom eroding, and the potential of their economy being squandered by a government that is totally corrupt and a leader who is obsessed with building an autocratic superpower and doesn't give a shit about improving people's standard of living.
Posted by occrider on Oct-09-2006 06:08:
quote:
Originally posted by Purple
I always felt that US always invested in other countries with their 'own' agenda behind.. they always ask for something in return like a true businessmen.. but when it comes to Russia helping these smaller countries.. its always selfless friendly support to a neighbour.. they dont ask for anything much back in return other than a 'Thank You' note.
What the fuck kind of crack are you smoking? Have you seen Putin at work? Have you just been completely unobservant as to what's been happening in the news? FFS the whole European nat gas crisis?
Posted by shaolin_Z on Oct-09-2006 06:11:
quote:
Originally posted by occrider
What the fuck kind of crack are you smoking? Have you seen Putin at work? Have you just been completely unobservant as to what's been happening in the news? FFS the whole European nat gas crisis?
Posted by metalgearsolid on Oct-09-2006 20:14:
quote:
Originally posted by astroboy
The main reason I no longer support my former country in international affairs is the degradation of democracy and increased similarity to a soviet regime.
Look Astroboy. It is the same everywhere in the world. Look here in the USA, for example, 5 corporations control more than half of all media. Such as Disney, AOLTIMEWARNER, News Corp, Viacom, GE. Those five control nearly everything you watch on tv or read in a magazine or newspaper.
How can you get accurate sources of information? HMM? If the means of communication are controled by a few corporations with not a single need to talk about what the real problems are in this country.
Anyways I think you left Russia because the girls were too pretty Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-09-2006 20:40:
quote:
Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Look Astroboy. It is the same everywhere in the world. Look here in the USA, for example, 5 corporations control more than half of all media. Such as Disney, AOLTIMEWARNER, News Corp, Viacom, GE. Those five control nearly everything you watch on tv or read in a magazine or newspaper.
How can you get accurate sources of information? HMM? If the means of communication are controled by a few corporations with not a single need to talk about what the real problems are in this country.
First, LOL at the video ;-)
Secondly, yes, in many countries, including USA and Russia, the media can't be trusted. Its true Putin seized the main TV network in Russia, though I think this move is maintaining stability and integrity of the country - we have enoough communists there and other extremists that can use the media to create havoc and unrest in the country. Despite this, ,I still think Putin is doing a much better job for Russia than ANY leader there since Alexander II in 1880s, LOL! He is strengthening the economy, pulling the country together, improving the standards of living, no doubt about it. In 6 years of his presidency he achieved many more positive changes than Yeltsin in 9 years. I avoid television, I dont watch it. I read online news from several sources daily and compare the material.
Russia has never really been a democratic country. What Putin is doing is not absolutely democratic, but it is a VERY HUGE and noticeable step to democracy. I know many will debate this, but thats how I see it. I got millions of Russians' peoples testimonies to back that ...
As for lack of investments, its a lie ... many many millions of dollars have been pouring into Russia, even after Yukos problems:
Originally posted by astroboy
Russia's interests in Georgia have nothing to do with brotherhood or being good neighbours, or punishing someone for lack of gratitude (worst excuse I've ever heard). Almost all of Russia's attempts to influence the region have been motivated by an interest in Caspian oil. Russia's involvement is always underhanded and shifty (like the whole independance struggle between Abkhazia and Georgia).
Does Georgia have oil, gas, natural resources that Russia needs, strategic bases? No, no, no ... Russia doesnt want to lose support and influence in soouth so its paying and discoounting Georgia for its support. Pretty easy position. And in no way this involves force. Thats why Russia didnt recognize the breakaway Georgian provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which clearly favour Russia. LOL ... Georgia is not bordering Caspian Sea at all. Russia is just fighting for political influence vs. NATO, EU, and USA - and these other forces have been digging in there, buddy.
If Russia was hostile for oil, then right know you'd see a Russian puppet in oil-rich Azerbaijan - which is not the case, buddy. Russia has plenty of its own gas and oil - last time I checked Russia owned like 5-10 percent of world's oil and 30-40 percent of world's natural gas. There you go.
Posted by star-traveller on Oct-09-2006 22:01:
quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
On a smilar note...
Oh please stop quoting this junk press from that site.
Didn't you know that BBC is the state channel in the UK?
Though sometimes it's nice to have a really critic opinion from them but most of the time they don't even know what are they writing about. They just want to shoot with another screaming headline on their front page.
Alot of journalists died during the campaign in Chechnya. And I'm sure they picked up her to write about ONLY because there was a fact that she opposed the current regime in Russia.
I really galled about stuff they wrote, how do they know that she is "one of the few remaining high-profile, independent journalists in Russia". Did they count everybody already ?
Some stupid just played around with the fact she was murdered and transformed that into the political case.
Hate this thing in mass media. Russian media are doing the same towards the West news.
Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-09-2006 23:27:
quote:
Originally posted by star-traveller
Oh please stop quoting this junk press from that site.
Didn't you know that BBC is the state channel in the UK?
Though sometimes it's nice to have a really critic opinion from them but most of the time they don't even know what are they writing about. They just want to shoot with another screaming headline on their front page.
Alot of journalists died during the campaign in Chechnya. And I'm sure they picked up her to write about ONLY because there was a fact that she opposed the current regime in Russia.
I really galled about stuff they wrote, how do they know that she is "one of the few remaining high-profile, independent journalists in Russia". Did they count everybody already ?
Some stupid just played around with the fact she was murdered and transformed that into the political case.
Hate this thing in mass media. Russian media are doing the same towards the West news.
I agree with some, here's my details on it:
Western media NEVER PLACED a spotlight on this investigator, didnt acclaim her as a independent anti-government, never called her publicly as a great supporter of the West, which she certainly wasn't. Now that she tragically was murdered, West uses her as a tool to make Russian government look bad, those bastards ...
She did her work about Chechnya, and all the abuses there - certainly she received death threats and some people were not happy aboout it. Probably Chechen bureacrats didnt want to get in trouble or in negative attention for the big report she was allegedly to release soon, so they put her away - she was well known and respected, by the way. I am very certain she was killed because of her work, but it wasnt the Russian government - they had nothing to gain andn everything to lose from it. A lot of shocking articles and stories come out of Russian internet media every week that I read, and those reporters are not killed the next day.
Another even MORE shocking murder a month ago that received little western attention, sadly:
Sept 2006 - first deputy chairman of Russia's central bank Andrei Kozlov shot dead in Moscow
This guy cracked down on corruption, he fought illegal bank system and corrupt business. He was the top government bank monitoring official, uncorrupt and he wouldn't be manipulated. And so they (mafia, banks who he fucked over) killed him for it. Its sad, but Russia is decades away from real democracy. The government is one big pussy and doesnt want to grab mafia by the balls - I think its because mafia helped bring Putin to power and they made some backroom deals. Who knows ...
The government says they want democracy for people, they give self-government to regions, reach out to random citizens, criticize and ridicule corruption, remove their own officials who are caught bribing or lying.
But when mafia is in play, Putin doesnt do anything ... Either he is manipulated by bigger players, or he is a chicken and afraid to go after the roots of the corruption in Russia - organized crime and mafia.
Posted by star-traveller on Oct-10-2006 09:50:
quote:
Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Anyways, Russians sound like a crazy people.
How much vodka do you russkyes drink?
Watch less amount of Americans movies pal.
And when you have time on the next holidays fly to the London. Get to the one of pub at 12am during the workweek inside the financial district (canary wharf as an example) and take a look around you.
You would discover alot of people standing there and drinking. You wouldn't even suspect that those people are the typical clerks who are working in the skyscrapers around and this is just a lunch break for them.
That is just another rumour that Russians drink too much.
Posted by Q5echo on Oct-10-2006 09:58:
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
Yes, you know more about this economic thing that I do, but what you say makes much more sense. American politicians dont care and dont want to devise a proper plan that will make Afghani people's lives better.
no she doesn't. tathi's feeding you a bunch of anti-war propaganda.
that highway doesn't cost billions of dollars. no highway does. we put up $80 million Japan put up $50 million and the Saudis put up $50 million. it's up to Afghans who builds it.
Originally posted by Q5echo
no she doesn't. tathi's feeding you a bunch of anti-war propaganda.
that highway doesn't cost billions of dollars. no highway does. we put up $80 million Japan put up $50 million and the Saudis put up $50 million. it's up to Afghans who builds it.
tHANKS! I'll take your word for it, this makes even more sense, I always thought it was cheaper to pay Afghanis than Turks from abroad ;-)
Posted by star-traveller on Oct-10-2006 11:39:
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
We have a huge alcohol and drug problem in Russia. We have a huge problem with corrupt officials, ignorant bureaucrats like Putin, mafia.
Over 50,000 Russians drink themselves to death every year. 30,000 Russians die from car accidents every year. The population goes down 700,000 every year - and that was slowed down by immigration from CIS. I've never TRIED alcohol, cigarettes, drugs or any other bullshit EVER. I guess you can say I educated myself well ;-)
Russians are not crazy. They're depressed, stressed out by very negative changes - from comfortable stable Soviet life, to poverty, himuliation and misery of the democracy. So many resort to drugs, alcohol, pills, suicide, murder, theft ... I've seen it all, I saw how people lost it all in days. I lost very good friends to murder, suicide, drugs, mafia ... I have enough fucked-up moments stuck in the back of my mind. I kept my cool though ...
Now the government has lots of money, they have billions of dollars saved up, thanks to the government ownership of oil and gas industry (smart move!, oh wait, but WHY NOT SPEND THAT MONEY PROPERLY???). But they haven't spent much of it on the things that need to be done around the country, like infrastructure, pay doctors/teachers more, upgrade technology, devise smarter economic plans, root out corruption, etc.
Putin has many restrictions, from the West, from mafia, from his inner party. I dont see a positive change happening in Russia quickly, it will take long time because of corruption and mafia and western pressure to do things their way.
You've said:
"from comfortable stable Soviet life, to poverty, himuliation and misery of the democracy."
I cannot say that the Soviet life was comfortable at all. I was quite young back than I guess as you are. But I still remember few things about living that time. People were queuing in stores to buy meat!!! They didn't use cash at all, goverment provided them some sort of special vouchers to buy things. All the kids in your neigbour were so excited when one of our parents brought back home chewing gums and snickers bars from his business trip to Moscow.
It was terrible time. People were living in some sort of castle without any windows to look outside. Everything I knew about the West was from the movies!! I must say it was rather miserable life than comfortable one.
People likes hailing that time partly because of the strong goverment and local authorities. But in reality people life were just circumscribed by the Soviet system, that's why they didn't take any bribes or did anything like that (at least most of them). A lot of things were just forbiden, like to run a private business.
So imagine we were living in such conditions. And than once at a time everything has changed. Compare it with learning how to swim. Your teacher just through you in the bath full of water and you barely can hold on the surface. Exactly that thing what happened in Russia at that time. At once people were allowed to do almost everything. The goverment collapsed. The most important institutions left without funding. Crimes, bribes all that shit began to sprout. Chechen war was a big factory to smugle money.
It's not a problem of democracy that people are living in "poverty, himuliation and misery". It's all about people themself. US has to learn 200 years how to build the democarcy before it started to work.
Putin is trying to change the Russia. He tries to seize the control of the federal goverment and the most important the goverment in regions. I don't believe he has any restrictions at all. But you should understand he is not an almight Bruce or whatever. He cannot rule the whole country alone. I think he believes in the democracy, he believes that it's the only form of goverment the Russia will rise with. But with the democracy you should trust and rely on the people you are working with. And that is the most important problem. He needs to find the people who CAN actually work on the better of NATION but not only themself.
And it's not so easy to do in Russia. There are not so many people who changed their way of thinking. Most of them are still starving for money and power. They need time.
They have a lot of money at the moment. But its only increases their responsibility. They cannot just invest it, because it will boost the inflation. And the Russia economy still heavily relies on the natural resources. They don't want a repeat of 1998.
Posted by Magnetonium on Oct-10-2006 11:55:
In the latter years of the communism's heydays, the inner cicles of the communist party were working hard to undermine Gorbachev. You probably never heard about how average citizens found stockpiles of rotting food disposed in the forests. The party was working hard to stop perestroyka. They actually attempted the putch later as a last attack on the reforms.
But pretty much everyone had jobs, security, food (well, for some part), there was little or no drugs on the streets, no AIDS, low crime. People demanded freedom.
In 1991, people got their freedom, but lost pretty much everything else. Overnight, many Russians' savings disappeared due to inflation and currency devaluation. And so on ...
If communists were bad, what the bureaucrats did in early-mid 1990s was much worse. They sold off the entire country for literally pennies to small businessmen like Abramovich, Berezovskiy, Gusinskiy as part of the world's BIGGEST and most APPALING privatization program. While rich got richer, the poor got poorer. Millions of pensioners and farmers, normal folks were decimated. Alcohol, drugs, AIDS, unemployment exploded. Organized crime took in the vaccum of power. The government could care less about the people, Yeltsin drank more than worked - at times his own daughter signed the laws!!!
And so on ...
There's a reason why you and me left Russia in 1990s, my friend. If democratic Russia was so good, why did millions of Russia emigrate to the West since 1991? Why did over 500 BILLION dollars in capital leave Russia?
