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I don't know where to start in this discussion, but I would like to add that there were several very prominent politicians and former military personnel with high ranks who have stepped up and revealed this information about aliens.

I mean, you all have to have heard about William Cooper by now. He served several years in the military intelligence, where he was able to see and later photocopy for his book authentic files documenting these government cover-ups. He mentioned in detail the cover-up of JFK assassination, treaties with aliens, government / IRS corruption, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behold_A_Pale_Horse

If you get the book, in the back there are dozens of photocopied and attached documents that implicate government cover-ups and conspiracy. I believe this guy has credibility.

Another famous and very important book, "The Day After Roswell" written by Colonel Philip Corso, a former Pentagon official who worked in the White House, worked with senior military officials and generals. He oversaw the Roswell files, the artifacts and the alien creatures themselves. This guy, undeniably, has strong credibility, and his long military service and work in White House are important clues that thig guy's not crazy. Read the book!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Corso

There's some other ones, but this is good enough for now ;-) The point is, there are many former military, government officials who are coming out talking about these cover-ups, aliens, secret treaties, assassinations, etc.

Listen to what politicians have to say about UFOs or NWO. You know how Stalin use to arrest other politicians and he would make them testify to crimes they didn't commit? This is no different.

You are just to blind to see it.

There is an alien species in the picture

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Listen to what politicians have to say about UFOs or NWO. You know how Stalin use to arrest other politicians and he would make them testify to crimes they didn't commit? This is no different. You are just to blind to see it.

The politicians, officials are the ones who are threatened and forced to lie by the inner party of the government, the real force. Its no wonder William Cooper and Philip Corso published their books way after they left the military/retired.

These guys weren't arrested. They were simply ridiculed and picked-on by mass media, kinda like Fox News does it "fair and balanced" media coverage, or kinda like Larry King (the black guy) who was helped by the powerful rich politicians to cover up the real extent of the crimes.

These two videos are available here on TA forums right now, I suggest you watch them again.

The government doesn't want to silence/murder the critics, that only portrays their involvement. They use media, counter-arguments, disinformation and propaganda to shoot down whomever gets in the way, and as in last resort murders its critics in "freak accidents".

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid There is an alien species in the picture

the cat seems to know

This right here, is one possible UFO theory from people using the Bible. They try to explain how life could have been on Mars, and of an ancient planet called Rahab, which they explain the astroid belt as the remnants of.

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ Some suggest they merely intergrated into other tribes. But as Albert Hosteen mentioned in X-Files - nothing vanishes without a trace This isn't the exact link I wanted, but it's the same interview, just typed differently... Interview with an ex-Area 51 employee Makes extremely interesting reading

They didnt disappear without a trace. Theres evidence of Anasazi style tools at other locations, i believe it was at a couple of Pueblo locations. And theres also evidence that supports the theory that they actually just up and left there settlements and migrated to other places. But the underlying reasons of why their society brokedown is climate change and irresponsible use of their environment. Theres plenty of research to support those ideas. If you want me to dig up the info for you i will. And for the record Anasazi means "the ancient ones" no "ancient aliens", and it was coined by other indians later in history when they found the abandoned Anasazi sites. Misunderstanding often leads to the creation of mysticism you know

Did any of you guys hear the Art Bell interview with John Lear from Nov 2nd 2003?? John explain alot of things about Aliens and how much the government is involved in all of this.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium The politicians, officials are the ones who are threatened and forced to lie by the inner party of the government, the real force. Its no wonder William Cooper and Philip Corso published their books way after they left the military/retired. These guys weren't arrested. They were simply ridiculed and picked-on by mass media, kinda like Fox News does it "fair and balanced" media coverage, or kinda like Larry King (the black guy) who was helped by the powerful rich politicians to cover up the real extent of the crimes. These two videos are available here on TA forums right now, I suggest you watch them again. The government doesn't want to silence/murder the critics, that only portrays their involvement. They use media, counter-arguments, disinformation and propaganda to shoot down whomever gets in the way, and as in last resort murders its critics in "freak accidents".

You are not getting it Magnetonium.


I know that they do not want to silence them. Rather they understand that people will see things they were not meant to see. that is when they select generals or personel that are going to be the scapegoats. What they do is come out and reveal what they know. When they do this they are knowing what is going to happen. They will be critized by the media.

But that is ok. It is what they want you to know. Words won't make a person shut up. When they come out people will believe that what they have to say and others wont and a lot MORE don't care. Freedom of speech is slavery.

Why would they come out so easily if they understand that there is no harm? Why would they continue to ask American civilians for their signature to bring to congress so they can declassify documents on UFOs or Aliens? Why bother when they know the majority of people won't do anything?

I don't think you will understand what Im saying.

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Originally posted by venomX They didnt disappear without a trace.

But no concrete evidence. The problem with the 'irresponsibility' theory is that why did they suddenly become 'ireresponsible'. It just doesn't make sense. They survived thousands of years by being responsible, then to suddenly turn otherwise just doesn't add up.

The Pueblos were also abandoned. An equally mysterious event, and again, noone knows why. No theory outweighs another, and as I said before, I find it kinda eerie how they just vanished.

Indian wisemen are thought to have believed in aliens etc...

And I think the Anasazi and other tribes were far more intelligent than historians give them cedit for.

I know Anasazi means "Ancient ones", I just prefer the other theory

Some food for thought:

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Another crash, in 1965 in Keksberg, Pennsylvania, the material displayed similar characteristics with very similar symbols written on it. Something occured that cannot be explained, and there were plenty of eye witnesses.

yep, these aliens, who have developed insanely advanced spacecraft (possibly faster than light drives!) capable of interstellar travel come to earth only to crash into it

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yep, these aliens, who have developed insanely advanced spacecraft (possibly faster than light drives!) capable of interstellar travel come to earth only to crash into it

Magnetite

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yep, these aliens, who have developed insanely advanced spacecraft (possibly faster than light drives!) capable of interstellar travel come to earth only to crash into it

maybe the driver felled asleep behind the wheel or he was driving under the influence???

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ But no concrete evidence. The problem with the 'irresponsibility' theory is that why did they suddenly become 'ireresponsible'. It just doesn't make sense. They survived thousands of years by being responsible, then to suddenly turn otherwise just doesn't add up. The Pueblos were also abandoned. An equally mysterious event, and again, noone knows why. No theory outweighs another, and as I said before, I find it kinda eerie how they just vanished. Indian wisemen are thought to have believed in aliens etc... And I think the Anasazi and other tribes were far more intelligent than historians give them cedit for. I know Anasazi means "Ancient ones", I just prefer the other theory Some food for thought:

They didnt "suddenly" become irresponsible. Weather in that part of the US is a tad unpredictable. Imagine this, you have a settlement, a couple of years go by and theres plenty of rain, and the weather is favourable. Population booms, they forget that weather is not usually this good all the time. The weather goes back to being very dry for a couple of years, a drought. But now you have double the population you can sustain, so what to do? Overproduce of course, and overuse the land, in hope that better weather will come. But it doesnt, and you cant feed everyone anymore, and now you've ravaged your land in hopes of better weather that never came. Civil war breaks out, and eventually you're forced to leave the settlement because its not sustainable anymore.

Now you tell me, whats more plausible, that theory, or aliens coming and taking the Anazasi away? There have been plenty of studies done on this and soil analysis results are in line with this theory. I dont think they just suddenly became irresponsible, its just the weather changed on them and they didnt have the means to adjust to the weather changes. It doesnt make them bad people, they just had the odds against them.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yep, these aliens, who have developed insanely advanced spacecraft (possibly faster than light drives!) capable of interstellar travel come to earth only to crash into it

Uh no it was most likely shot down (hence why the military knew where it was hours after it had happened) and no they don't come from that far away. I am of the theory that they aren't traveling far distances. Some may, but there are a lot that are here...on our planet. They don't need to travel anywhere per say, they have bases in the ocean. Lots of people have seen USOs, including the Navy. Some talk about it, others don't. There's even talk that Christopher Columbus had seen something strange coming out of the water. Sounds crazy, but there's been lots of witnesses to this, and this could explain why so many ships have been lost in both the Bermuda and the Pacific Triangle. They don't want our ships coming near their bases, and the technology they have down there and around their ships could mess up their compases and equipment.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Uh no it was most likely shot down (hence why the military knew where it was hours after it had happened) and no they don't come from that far away. I am of the theory that they aren't traveling far distances. Some may, but there are a lot that are here...on our planet. They don't need to travel anywhere per say, they have bases in the ocean. Lots of people have seen USOs, including the Navy. Some talk about it, others don't. There's even talk that Christopher Columbus had seen something strange coming out of the water. Sounds crazy, but there's been lots of witnesses to this, and this could explain why so many ships have been lost in both the Bermuda and the Pacific Triangle. They don't want our ships coming near their bases, and the technology they have down there and around their ships could mess up their compases and equipment.

I wish i could believe all this but alien bases in our oceans, damn they wouldnt even be aliens then, and they would have to be the dumbest aliens ever to let us develop as we have so that one day we can kick their ass due to our violent nature.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Uh no it was most likely shot down (hence why the military knew where it was hours after it had happened)

uh-huh! they're so powerful that theyre controlling our governments or whatever, yet they havent developed anti-missile technology. come now!

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Originally posted by Spirit5 and no they don't come from that far away. I am of the theory that they aren't traveling far distances. Some may, but there are a lot that are here...on our planet.

um, so how did they get here again if they didnt travel a long way away? for the record, even mars is a fucking long way away by 21st scientific standards.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 They don't need to travel anywhere per say, they have bases in the ocean. Lots of people have seen USOs, including the Navy. Some talk about it, others don't. There's even talk that Christopher Columbus had seen something strange coming out of the water. Sounds crazy, but there's been lots of witnesses to this, and this could explain why so many ships have been lost in both the Bermuda and the Pacific Triangle. They don't want our ships coming near their bases, and the technology they have down there and around their ships could mess up their compases and equipment.

ahhh yes. the conspiracy theorists' panacea. "superior technology" to fill absolutely any gap in logic. cant make something fit nicely? use a made-up tech to justify your position or explain naturally occuring phenomena. they have bases in the ocean because...? they have remained totally secret to our every investigation of the planet, yet are worried about a few vessels passing miles on top of them? they choose a place relatively close to inhabitants when 7/8s of the planet is covered in ocean?

in short:

they have superior technology allowing space travel and underwater bases, undetectable by humans.

this superior technology doesnt prevent them from being shot down or crashing.

this superior technology is somehow threatened by ships sailing on the ocean.

all the independant observatories around the world dont pick up their prescence in the sky, because they have cloaking technology that doesnt prevent them from being shot at.

these aliens have got nothing better to do than fly around the galaxy and hide in the bermuda triangle or nevada desert or conduct experiments on like 25% of the american population. because fat lazy sports fans are integral to the first intellectuals of the cosmos.

you still haven't been locked up for your own safety?

quote:

Originally posted by venomX I wish i could believe all this but alien bases in our oceans, damn they wouldnt even be aliens then, and they would have to be the dumbest aliens ever to let us develop as we have so that one day we can kick their ass due to our violent nature.

Well it's possible they aren't aliens really. I mean their origin might be someplace else, but it's possible (i'm speculating here) that they have been here for thousands, if not millions of years. Probably at one point they influenced us, and since left and this has allowed other advanced civilizations to flourish in our oceans, and they would have the technology, esp once we develop it, to not allow us to explore it. That would make people think that they aren't real, the whole purpose of a lot of their doing of things is to make us believe that 1. they are real and benevolent and 2. they aren't real, and aren't benevolent.

So the fact of the matter is, these aren't "invaders from mars" nor are they "saviors from the pleides" but advanced species who are possibly located all over the world, in various places where we cannot find them. This is another reason why it is hard to really prove a lot of this, is because they don't want us to know they aren't coming from light years away, but under our oceans, underground places. So you can eliminate "invaders" or "saviors" or any of thos sci fi or new agey ideas.

These are beings, whoever they are, that just don't care...the only care about themselves. Yes they might be concerned about our violent nature, but I doubt it really effects them. Most researchers on abductions have seen this...that the aliens aren't what we think, they aren't even aliens per say...they are much closer to us than we think. I just think their reality has been barried, or repressed into our consciousness and now we laugh at those who have encountered them...yet if we look back in time...we'll see very similar meetings with "demons", "angels" and "God(s)".

It's a security blanket, no one wants to believe that aliens are abducting people and have been for thousands of years, repressing most of our memories of it (hence why it seems like they aren't real) and making it seem as if they are on some mission to save us....when they are more concerned with themselves. It might not seem like they are at a global scale, but I'm sure there's a lot more people that just haven't come out and said they have been, due to ridicule. Now these aren't the greys, the big black eyed guys seen in many shows like the X Files or movies like Close Encounters, but a higher race doing this...who control the greys. It's gone into on David Jacob's book "The Threat".

In short, there are many things that make the whole alien and UFO stuff not sound very credible, but if you think about it...this could be for a reason...I doubt the "aliens" want us to know who they are. They want it to seem incredible. This is why some abductees sometimes make some really bizzare claims and or feel reality has been altered somehow..and it has. Hardly anyone wants to admit it...

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN uh-huh! they're so powerful that theyre controlling our governments or whatever, yet they havent developed anti-missile technology. come now! um, so how did they get here again if they didnt travel a long way away? for the record, even mars is a fucking long way away by 21st scientific standards. ahhh yes. the conspiracy theorists' panacea. "superior technology" to fill absolutely any gap in logic. cant make something fit nicely? use a made-up tech to justify your position or explain naturally occuring phenomena. they have bases in the ocean because...? they have remained totally secret to our every investigation of the planet, yet are worried about a few vessels passing miles on top of them? they choose a place relatively close to inhabitants when 7/8s of the planet is covered in ocean? in short: they have superior technology allowing space travel and underwater bases, undetectable by humans. this superior technology doesnt prevent them from being shot down or crashing. this superior technology is somehow threatened by ships sailing on the ocean. all the independant observatories around the world dont pick up their prescence in the sky, because they have cloaking technology that doesnt prevent them from being shot at. these aliens have got nothing better to do than fly around the galaxy and hide in the bermuda triangle or nevada desert or conduct experiments on like 25% of the american population. because fat lazy sports fans are integral to the first intellectuals of the cosmos. you still haven't been locked up for your own safety?

Uh read up on USOs and the Bermuda Triangle and how people have experienced magentic interferences around there, for many years. They shoot them down because they didn't want them trespassing on our skies. Why else was the military there hours after it happened in Keksberg? have u even read about it to know? It takes reading and research, not just scientific "there's no proof!" thing. A scientist was one who really got into and started to believe in these things...J. Allen Hynek. He did a scientific study of them for like 30 years. He was a respected astronomer. He started to see patterns and collected evidence like soil samples at various landing sites, and just interviewed a lot of people. It's something he felt had to be done scientifically, and it should be. I'm just speculating here, based around stuff i've read, and seen. I have no idea if it's true or not...it just makes sense to me. I'm not looking at it as an exact science, just piecing some things together from research i've done over the years.

Oh and naturally occuring phenomenon? that triangle thing that I talked about and showed a picture of in other posts...some natural phenomenon. And the reports seen by pilots over the years....bright lights and structured craft is surely naturally occuring. It could be just experimental technology, but as I noted in my other posts, experimental technology shouldn't be flown around all over the world or by commerical, passanger airplanes. No I'm not exactly a "conspiracy theorist" i'm just a believer in some of the UFO phenomenon, not everything, just the convicing stuff i've read and seen. It takes former military officers, police officers, some former politicians or people in the government, or pilots, or other people who've reported seeing the same stuff all over the world. Then it gets pretty convincing. It's not basing off of a few reports here and there and saying "it's got to be a hoax". Not that simple. That happened to J Allen Hynek in the 60s. He was at first skeptical, until he did more research and interviewed more people and saw more evidence, they he felt it warranted further study, and not to scoffed at as all hoaxes. Surely there's more hoaxes than true cases, I will admit that, and he did find that in his studies, but there were some that were pretty convincing. This was coming from a scientist remember.

In short, nothing I am saying is set in stone as the final truth. A lot of it is speculation. I doubt the aliens would really want their presence to be known. The UFO sightings are either 1. experimental aircraft by our military or 2. alien ships. They could be both. But pkcRAISTLIN, people have seen "structured" craft, not all natural phenomenon. Surely some could be natural phenomenon, but not all..naturally phenomenon doesn't move as some of these have moved...display the same characteristics. It's technology, my thing is...whose technology? Ours? or Theirs? Both? and why fly them around all over the world and by commerical airplanes??

quote:

Lister: Oh god, aliens? Your explanation for anything slightly peculiar is aliens, isn't it? You lose your keys, it's aliens. A picture falls off the wall, it's aliens. That time we used up a whole bog roll in a day, you thought that was aliens as well. Rimmer: Well we didn't use it all, Lister. Who did? Lister: Rimmer, aliens used our bog roll? Rimmer: Lister, just because they're aliens doesn't mean they don't have to visit the little boy's room, although they probably do something weird, and alienesque, like it comes out of the top of their heads or something. Lister: Well, I wouldn't want to sit behind one in the cinema!

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid maybe the driver felled asleep behind the wheel or he was driving under the influence???

I think he was smoking space weed.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN

Actually i'm not saying it's all aliens. I'm posing questions if it were experimental aircraft by our military. The thing with the bases is speculation based around the idea of them having to travel light years away and it is based around reports of USOs in the Pacific and Atlantic. They might have found a way to travel light years, if they are extremely advanced, but I dunno if they do. If they aren't here, then there's something more going on here, but I doubt it's the government doing all of this for some twisted reason, esp to people in other countries. You have to rule out natural phenomenon in some instances, esp the pilot encounters, Bentwaters, them seen at military airbases, the picture of the triangle craft I had put up. Those aren't "Earth lights" or "Ball lightning" or "Venus" or whatever you want to call them. They were clearly structured craft. They are either experimental aircraft driven by our military for some odd reason all over the world and by airplanes, or extra-terrestrial. Again, I don't completely rule out experimental aircraft, but some of that is inconsistent...doesn't make complete sense. I'm not a UFO nut, I don't read as much as I used to. I don't attend conferences or any of that stuff. I'm not much into conspiracy theories, but somethings just don't make sense and I like the unknown and to speculate.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN uh-huh! they're so powerful that theyre controlling our governments or whatever, yet they havent developed anti-missile technology. come now! um, so how did they get here again if they didnt travel a long way away? for the record, even mars is a fucking long way away by 21st scientific standards. ahhh yes. the conspiracy theorists' panacea. "superior technology" to fill absolutely any gap in logic. cant make something fit nicely? use a made-up tech to justify your position or explain naturally occuring phenomena. they have bases in the ocean because...? they have remained totally secret to our every investigation of the planet, yet are worried about a few vessels passing miles on top of them? they choose a place relatively close to inhabitants when 7/8s of the planet is covered in ocean? in short: they have superior technology allowing space travel and underwater bases, undetectable by humans. this superior technology doesnt prevent them from being shot down or crashing. this superior technology is somehow threatened by ships sailing on the ocean. all the independant observatories around the world dont pick up their prescence in the sky, because they have cloaking technology that doesnt prevent them from being shot at. these aliens have got nothing better to do than fly around the galaxy and hide in the bermuda triangle or nevada desert or conduct experiments on like 25% of the american population. because fat lazy sports fans are integral to the first intellectuals of the cosmos. you still haven't been locked up for your own safety?

LOL ... every planet has its own gravity. The alien pilots use mind to navigate the craft, and its not that easy when the gravity is too strong. Don't forget that the universe is gigantic, and there are probably thousands of alien civilizations observing us as we speak. Many different crafts that were seen would explain that.

Oh, and by the way, even the best pilots we have on Earth crash, you know, there's such thing as equipment problems especially with complex machines.

You know, you might think its crazy, but hundreds of thousands of people around the world claim to have seen or experienced UFOs. Call these people crazy. Call their stories crazy.

Aliens build bases away from human population centers for simple reasons. They dont want to interfere with us, they want us to make our own civilization, build our own society, so that we can make our own independent decisions. They help us occassionally with technology, advice, and they do their own kind of studies and shit on the side. They travel the world to explore, study, learn ... these creatures live up to 1000 years.

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid You are not getting it Magnetonium. I know that they do not want to silence them. Rather they understand that people will see things they were not meant to see. that is when they select generals or personel that are going to be the scapegoats. What they do is come out and reveal what they know. When they do this they are knowing what is going to happen. They will be critized by the media. But that is ok. It is what they want you to know. Words won't make a person shut up. When they come out people will believe that what they have to say and others wont and a lot MORE don't care. Freedom of speech is slavery. Why would they come out so easily if they understand that there is no harm? Why would they continue to ask American civilians for their signature to bring to congress so they can declassify documents on UFOs or Aliens? Why bother when they know the majority of people won't do anything? I don't think you will understand what Im saying.

The government controls the media. They can make a mess like in Waco, Texas and get away with it. Everything changed after Watergate. The government keeps a careful eye on the media, and media can lie, just like that famous Monsento vs. 2 Fox journalists case in 2002 showed.

They can really shut anybody up and the media won't be making any articles. Media is selective now!

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium LOL ... every planet has its own gravity. The alien pilots use mind to navigate the craft, and its not that easy when the gravity is too strong. Don't forget that the universe is gigantic, and there are probably thousands of alien civilizations observing us as we speak. Many different crafts that were seen would explain that.

its hilarious the way you talk about these ideas as if theyre fact. the aliens use mind control to pilot their craft. fucken LOL.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Oh, and by the way, even the best pilots we have on Earth crash, you know, there's such thing as equipment problems especially with complex machines.

craft that can traverse the galaxy suddenly get technical difficulties when they reach earth. RIGHT.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium You know, you might think its crazy, but hundreds of thousands of people around the world claim to have seen or experienced UFOs. Call these people crazy. Call their stories crazy.

sure do. people LOVE to feel as if theyre special. you only have to look at the over-represented % ofalien abductees from the good ol USA.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Aliens build bases away from human population centers for simple reasons. They dont want to interfere with us, they want us to make our own civilization, build our own society, so that we can make our own independent decisions. They help us occassionally with technology, advice, and they do their own kind of studies and shit on the side. They travel the world to explore, study, learn ... these creatures live up to 1000 years.

im really glad youre here to tell us these things

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium The government controls the media. They can make a mess like in Waco, Texas and get away with it.

you really dont have a strong grasp of how media works imo. to argue government is more powerful than business (at their own business) simply isnt true in the western liberal democracies. this concept that governments are all-powerful and mysterious and capable of all kinds of manipulation of the populace isnt how things work im sorry to say.

if you had spent any time working in government you'd outgrow this obsession you have with them as some kind of illuminate. liberal democratic governments simply cant function like this on the scale that you believe.

Alright, well if you dont believe in aliens, I respect that - you dont have to. The information I use on aliens is mostly based on Philip Corso and William Cooper. Those guys served in the high eschelons of US military, and they have credibility.

There is really no "factual" information on aliens out there, other than some paintings and architectures, all the facts are locked within the government vaults.

Please dont pick on our conversations, because I am not backing off and there's really no strong evidence other than these great books on aliens and other than the evidence from the history. So I cant really say you're wrong ... but I am going with my instincts on this one. The truth will eventually come out, this cant be hidden forever.

Please dont bother disproving this UFO phenomenon topic, its not going to do anything positive. However, if you have any ideas, points and evidence, please share it with us here. Thanks!

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