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-- Kyau Vs. Albert - Walk Down
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Originally posted by D-res You can possibly tell me those lyrics don't absolutely REEK of cheese. Shall I call the angels? tra la la... c'mon now...

Not to mention they make no sense whatsoever. Still, the MdG remix is great.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Not to mention they make no sense whatsoever. Still, the MdG remix is great.

I've heard samples but I don't think I've heard the whole thing. I don't listen to trance ever anymore, which is a shame considering what a captivating genre it used to be for me. Never the less, in my hay day of trance fanboyisms, I was a fan of MdG. In fact, regardless of the cheese factor emanating from your run-of-the-mill Kyau vs Albert production, I used to think it was catchy.

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Originally posted by D-res I'm going to have to take Demoted's side on this one. The vocal tracks you're mentioning are, without a doubt, cheesy. Now you need to keep in mind that cheesy isn't necessarily bad. It is indeed all subjective and you're free to touch yourself to those cheesy tunes all night long if you so please. Now honestly: You can possibly tell me those lyrics don't absolutely REEK of cheese. Shall I call the angels? tra la la... c'mon now...

haha true, those lyrics are quite "cheesy" but if u read me correctly i was comparing it to the tracks made by kva this year and i said that u cant call the ones this year cheesy and then call the other ones good. which is wat alot of other people did. but fuck oceanlab productions are 29083781902319027 times better than any kva track.

i hate kva tracks anyway lol, i never said i liked them it just seems liek this guy calls everything cheese.

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Originally posted by trancepunkk haha true, those lyrics are quite "cheesy" but if u read me correctly i was comparing it to the tracks made by kva this year and i said that u cant call the ones this year cheesy and then call the other ones good. which is wat alot of other people did. but fuck oceanlab productions are 29083781902319027 times better than any kva track. i hate kva tracks anyway lol, i never said i liked them it just seems liek this guy calls everything cheese.

well in all honesty, a solid chunk of vocal productions are cheesy. you bring up Oceanlab. Admittedly, I have "satellite" on vinyl, although it was the first one I bought, among a tiesto 4 pack and "burned with desire" which is also cheesy crap. Keep in mind I bought them in my less 'elitist' days when I didn't know much about the genre and bought them simply because i recognized them and, at the time, thought they were good.

Still, there isnt much one can do to produce a vocal track without it being cheesy, and once again cheesy does not equal bad, because bad is subjective and entirely opinion, where as cheesy is just that and there's nothing anyone can do to make it otherwise.

What what!!
Why do you think there is "vocal trance"?

what else would you exspect as vocals in trance anyways!?
30 unique sang lines of lyrics in a track? erhm.. impossibele.

just doesnt fit, repeat and stuff.. look at poems, vocal trance is nothing different but a short cut of poems.

and the best vocal trance tracks might for some users be those, who have lots of different vocals, and not just "hey hey hey hey hey" repeatings and alike.

that is what makes "vocal trance" good and not cheesy, at least to me.

for those who do not like vocals, they do not like vocals, so what is it all about saying velvet morning, oceanlab, and maybe motorcycle are cheesy? they indeed are not, they are upper class vocal trance tracks with massive sounds. accept it!

and do not blame vocal trance, its not cheesy.

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Originally posted by Muhcow What what!! Why do you think there is "vocal trance"? what else would you exspect as vocals in trance anyways!? 30 unique sang lines of lyrics in a track? erhm.. impossibele. just doesnt fit, repeat and stuff.. look at poems, vocal trance is nothing different but a short cut of poems. and the best vocal trance tracks might for some users be those, who have lots of different vocals, and not just "hey hey hey hey hey" repeatings and alike. that is what makes "vocal trance" good and not cheesy, at least to me. for those who do not like vocals, they do not like vocals, so what is it all about saying velvet morning, oceanlab, and maybe motorcycle are cheesy? they indeed are not, they are upper class vocal trance tracks with massive sounds. accept it! and do not blame vocal trance, its not cheesy.

No, those are cheesy

Not cheesy vocals (imo):

Mercury & Solace, Beautiful Things, WoW - Stealth, Sarah M - Stupid, Lustral - Broken.

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Originally posted by trancepunkk if its subjective stop making it sound like fact. and just cos u dont like the vocals doesnt make them "cheesy"....there is a difference between just plain shit vocals and "cheesy" vocals.

"you're haaaalf a worrrrld awayyyyyyy...."

"cleaaaaaaaaaaaaar blueeee waaaaaaterrrr..."

that shit sounds cheesy to me. I recite them as fact because they are factual to me. If you tend to take other people spouting their opinion in a factual manner as fact then it sounds like a personal issue to me of your inability to discern. I shouldn't have to start or end any of my opinions by stating that it's my opinion.

you dont write poems i bet :-)

if you ever write one.. eh..
ah! good idea,

go watch "dead poets society".

i mean, falling in love and beeing totally overwhelmed by that crazy feeling you might really miss someone THAT much, that you even think like they sing.

and that is how such songs are made.

i think you might not like romantics. but who cares?! its really up to anyone what he likes and dislkes.

though it is worth a discussion, what "cheese" is and what not.

for me cheese it is something, you can not listen to 3 times in a row without going mad.

taking an example for really not cheese:

"the killers - mr. brightside (jacques lu cont's thin white duke remix)"

absolutelyy brilliant, long lyrics, perfect way to treat a sound and vocal.

cheese: groove coverage - god is a girl .. that is cheese, very public music you can catch easily.

tahts whats cheese for me.

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Originally posted by Muhcow you dont write poems i bet :-) if you ever write one.. eh.. ah! good idea, go watch "dead poets society". i mean, falling in love and beeing totally overwhelmed by that crazy feeling you might really miss someone THAT much, that you even think like they sing. and that is how such songs are made. i think you might not like romantics. but who cares?! its really up to anyone what he likes and dislkes. though it is worth a discussion, what "cheese" is and what not. for me cheese it is something, you can not listen to 3 times in a row without going mad. taking an example for really not cheese: "the killers - mr. brightside (jacques lu cont's thin white duke remix)" absolutelyy brilliant, long lyrics, perfect way to treat a sound and vocal. cheese: groove coverage - god is a girl .. that is cheese, very public music you can catch easily. tahts whats cheese for me.

You're a victim of incorrect assumption. Despite the trivialities surrounding whether or not I'm an artistic/abstract writer, I still deem sappy love clich�s as cheese. Those are lyrics that can be found in umpteen many love ballads with large, anthemic breaks. They're disposable, sugary, and require almost no thought to write. Those types of lyrics serve almost no purpose other than to be some sing-songy syrup usually there to hide the poor production work behind the actual song.

There's only so many times I wish to digest archetypal lovey trance tracks before I tend to gouge my ears out of place. Just like there's only so many romantic comedies I can handle with a predictable story line and a sappy overtone.

This is one of my definitions of cheese, and Oceanlab tracks fit the bill perfectly. It's entirely in your right to disagree, and it's completely up to debate as it is all subjective, but I doubt either side will convince the other of the contrary. But I'm certainly not incorrect in my estimation of cheese.

*reaches out my hand* you are good someone to discuss with :-)

/edit: mind me, but those who like to predict the end of a movie or a sound, that takes all the miracle of it.

you live faster if you think like that, its like when you drive through unknown terrain, the 1st time you drive through it seems to feel longer, than the 2nd. so its with movies! you watch many, recognize parallels, and then you guess and are right about the end.. fine.. but everything is just a repeat of something before, most times at least.

unless you invent. and not everybody can invent every day!

learn to wonder again :-) even about things you seem to "know".

(i study physics, maybe that is why i think like that, you dont have to agree with me, indeed, but life is less interesting if you think you know it all!)

/edit 2: poor poor cow :�(

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Originally posted by Muhcow *reaches out my hand* you are good someone to discuss with :-) /edit: mind me, but those who like to predict the end of a movie or a sound, that takes all the miracle of it. you live faster if you think like that, its like when you drive through unknown terrain, the 1st time you drive through it seems to feel longer, than the 2nd. so its with movies! you watch many, recognize parallels, and then you guess and are right about the end.. fine.. but everything is just a repeat of something before, most times at least. unless you invent. and not everybody can invent every day! learn to wonder again :-) even about things you seem to "know". (i study physics, maybe that is why i think like that, you dont have to agree with me, indeed, but life is less interesting if you think you know it all!) /edit 2: poor poor cow :�(

hai faivz!

o/*\o



It's hard for me to pretend I don't know where a track is going, especially when it's doused in tripe lyrics. I shouldn't have to force a musical journey when there's so much other music out there that is astronomically better and far more innovative. Songs intended for radio and radio edits almost never surprise me, and listening to music shouldn't become work in trying to find the artistic merit. The music should bleed it... like my cow.

Every now and then I'm willing to put on predictable pap that is just mashed synths and crap lyrics, but for serious listening I would never listen to it. Just like every now and then I'll throw in a predictable movie.

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Originally posted by Demoted hai faivz! o/*\o It's hard for me to pretend I don't know where a track is going, especially when it's doused in tripe lyrics. I shouldn't have to force a musical journey when there's so much other music out there that is astronomically better and far more innovative. Songs intended for radio and radio edits almost never surprise me, and listening to music shouldn't become work in trying to find the artistic merit. The music should bleed it... like my cow. Every now and then I'm willing to put on predictable pap that is just mashed synths and crap lyrics, but for serious listening I would never listen to it. Just like every now and then I'll throw in a predictable movie.

Nice shades officer

Anyway, in my opinion there are some vocals that are meant to be deep and meaningful, and some that are just meant to compliment the music, in the case of 'Walk Down', it's catchy and fits the music, even if it means very little. Perhaps that's the effect they're going for, I don't know..

quote:

Originally posted by Demoted "you're haaaalf a worrrrld awayyyyyyy...." "cleaaaaaaaaaaaaar blueeee waaaaaaterrrr..." that shit sounds cheesy to me. I recite them as fact because they are factual to me. If you tend to take other people spouting their opinion in a factual manner as fact then it sounds like a personal issue to me of your inability to discern. I shouldn't have to start or end any of my opinions by stating that it's my opinion.

how the fuck does "clear blue water" sound cheesy.......they are just three random words pretty much, ian van dahl tracks are cheesy, "with out you by my side, it feels cold inside" i mean give me a break that is what u call cheese...oceanlab have produced some of the best tracks this decade, cheesy or not anyway so u cant bag them as artists. wat everybody else said though was spot on. but demoted its quite obvious u just dont like vocals and your just generalising by saying that they are "cheese" simply because u think they sound shit.

and vocals are always there to have some sort of deep meaning all the time like u seem to expect...they are just there to sound good and to give the song an extra something. justine suissa sounds great no matter what shes singing.

quote:

Originally posted by Demoted "you're haaaalf a worrrrld awayyyyyyy...." "cleaaaaaaaaaaaaar blueeee waaaaaaterrrr..." that shit sounds cheesy to me. I recite them as fact because they are factual to me. If you tend to take other people spouting their opinion in a factual manner as fact then it sounds like a personal issue to me of your inability to discern. I shouldn't have to start or end any of my opinions by stating that it's my opinion.

how the fuck does "clear blue water" sound cheesy.......they are just three random words pretty much, ian van dahl tracks are cheesy, "with out you by my side, it feels cold inside" i mean give me a break that is what u call cheese...oceanlab have produced some of the best tracks this decade, cheesy or not anyway so u cant bag them as artists. wat everybody else said though was spot on. but demoted its quite obvious u just dont like vocals and your just generalising by saying that they are "cheese" simply because u think they sound shit.

and vocals are always there to have some sort of deep meaning all the time like u seem to expect...they are just there to sound good and to give the song an extra something. justine suissa sounds great no matter what shes singing.

exactly, trancepunk! i totally agree with you, he dislikes vocals :-)

quote:

Originally posted by trancepunkk how the fuck does "clear blue water" sound cheesy.......they are just three random words pretty much

You answered it yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by trancepunkk how the fuck does "clear blue water" sound cheesy.......they are just three random words pretty much, ian van dahl tracks are cheesy, "with out you by my side, it feels cold inside" i mean give me a break that is what u call cheese...oceanlab have produced some of the best tracks this decade, cheesy or not anyway so u cant bag them as artists. wat everybody else said though was spot on. but demoted its quite obvious u just dont like vocals and your just generalising by saying that they are "cheese" simply because u think they sound shit. and vocals are always there to have some sort of deep meaning all the time like u seem to expect...they are just there to sound good and to give the song an extra something. justine suissa sounds great no matter what shes singing.

quote:

Originally posted by Muhcow exactly, trancepunk! i totally agree with you, he dislikes vocals :-)

I hardly think the issue here is that Demoted hates songs with vocals in them, because I know better. I've seen his posts where he names songs with vocals that he likes.

The issue here is simply difference of opinion and some of us feel that these tracks contain lyrics that are easy to write, cliched and "lovey-dovey" which clearly appeals to a set audience.

We simply ask more from our vocal tracks. We don't want random, mindless "I'm trapped, but love will set me free!" crap polluting our ear drums. You can find lyrics like that anywhere, in any genre, at any time and worse yet, as people have pointed out time and time again, cheesy lyrics like that will appeal to a commercial audience who wont recognized shoddy production quality underneath those "poetic" lyrics.

Is it so wrong to ask for depth in lyrics and quality in productions? If you want to settle for same old, same old, so be it. I won't.

Simple minds, simple pleasures I guess...

Lot's of good points about the potential of vocals in trance.

Might I point out the fact one of the very first instances of vocals in trance was about the plight of American Natives?

quote:

Originally posted by D-res I hardly think the issue here is that Demoted hates songs with vocals in them, because I know better. I've seen his posts where he names songs with vocals that he likes. The issue here is simply difference of opinion and some of us feel that these tracks contain lyrics that are easy to write, cliched and "lovey-dovey" which clearly appeals to a set audience. We simply ask more from our vocal tracks. We don't want random, mindless "I'm trapped, but love will set me free!" crap polluting our ear drums. You can find lyrics like that anywhere, in any genre, at any time and worse yet, as people have pointed out time and time again, cheesy lyrics like that will appeal to a commercial audience who wont recognized shoddy production quality underneath those "poetic" lyrics. Is it so wrong to ask for depth in lyrics and quality in productions? If you want to settle for same old, same old, so be it. I won't. Simple minds, simple pleasures I guess...

you see your missing the point...alot of the time the vocals are just there to compliment the bassline and everything. like in clear blue water, they arent meant to be the greatest lyrics on earth that u are sposed to make some deep emotional connection towards . its not about whether u are "simple minded", its about whether it sounds good or not and in the end thats all that matters regardless of what the lyrics say. this is what makes some of the examples i used great tracks, not what the lyrics actually say but what it sounds like. ofcourse im not saying that artists shouldnt try and make some great lyrics that really mean something to us but fuck in the end they are just dj's alot of the time.....not song writers. very few trance tracks make such a connection through the lyrics so by saying what your saying about 99% of trance that use vocals are cheesy, which they arent, they just arent written to the standard of U2 or watever lol.

quote:

Originally posted by trancepunkk you see your missing the point...alot of the time the vocals are just there to compliment the bassline and everything. this is what makes some of the examples i used great tracks, not what the lyrics actually say but what it sounds like.

In which case vocal sounds (oooh, aaaahh, etc) are better suited than poxy lyrics.

A good example is Sun Decade - I'm Alone. The full vocals kinda make me cringe, but the Ronski Speed mix just uses a somewhat haunting vocal sample that sounds awesome.

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Originally posted by trancepunkk you see your missing the point...alot of the time the vocals are just there to compliment the bassline and everything. like in clear blue water, they arent meant to be the greatest lyrics on earth that u are sposed to make some deep emotional connection towards .

by no means do i expect to shed a single, soulful tear when I hear a vocal tune but that doesn't excuse producers from being unoriginal in their productions.

I agree with kr00t0n. I'd rather hear a well produced song with a vocal sample and some effect thrown on it than hear the same redundant shit.

so would i

Incomprehsible levels of idiocy abound!

only after that post.

can u guys provide me with an example of what u wouldnt classify as cheesy then?

Just read the damn thread carefully:

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n No, those are cheesy Not cheesy vocals (imo): Mercury & Solace, Beautiful Things, WoW - Stealth, Sarah M - Stupid, Lustral - Broken.

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