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-- 407- its a scam!
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Originally posted by lexxwolfen The 407 is a life/sanity saver.

until the fucked up bill arrives.... LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 until the fucked up bill arrives.... LOL

Unless you dont have a transponder, the bill isnt that much... unless you use the 407 twice a day, everyday.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Your rates here are high because you're young. See we charge premium based on risk... you are a greater risk then a 50 year old married woman. In Quebec everyone pays the same for liability coverage. So, while now you're paying more most people making the same move from Quebec to Ontario would come out ahead because they are being overcharged in Quebec.

When i left quebec, I was at $400 a year for insurance. Here I started at $2200.

For my current car, I would have to be 60 years old to get a premium of $600 a year in Ontario..


That means Id be overpaying for 38 years....to finally get a rate that is still higher than what I was paying....

quote:

Originally posted by lexxwolfen Unless you dont have a transponder, the bill isnt that much... unless you use the 407 twice a day, everyday.

u obviously didnt read my initial post.

quote:

Originally posted by devnull When i left quebec, I was at $400 a year for insurance. Here I started at $2200. For my current car, I would have to be 60 years old to get a premium of $600 a year in Ontario.. That means Id be overpaying for 38 years....to finally get a rate that is still higher than what I was paying....

Its like comparing apples and beer....the two systems are very different and yet also very similar....Quebec has a true no fault system...Ontario has a no-fault system as well however you still can sue for pain and suffering as long as you meet the verbal theshold and even then there is a $30,000.00 deductible for anything you are awarded. In ontario, your medical, weekly benefit (Income Replacement, Caregiver Benefit, or Non-Earner Benefit), housekeeping, attendant care, cost of examinations, rehabilitation, vocational training, and many other things are covered by your own insurance (its called Accident Benefits).....which is somewhat similar to SAAQ.

Break Down your Policy here and see exactly how much you pay for each coverage and compare that to the cost of the same coverages in Quebec....overall....they probably are not that different.

I saved about $600/yr on my car by moving from Yonge/Sheppard to Aurora.

People are forgetting that Toronto's population is still expanding - rapidly.

The 407 is the only private (toll) road in the entire city.

Rising prices reflect rising demand. Virtually every single other road and highway in Toronto is jammed from 7 am to 9 pm. The reasons for that are simple enough, although unfortunately those with the power to deal with them are unwilling to acknowledge them. Point being, some traffic is obviously going to spill over onto the 407 as a direct result of the ever-expanding mess that is Toronto's public road system.

If price controls were effected on the 407, everybody would start using it and it would become a wreck just like the other roads. Perhaps the owners are treating it as a cash cow, but (a) you really can't blame them, and (b) their high prices are necessary to limit the demand enough to keep that highway usable.

It's not really that difficult a dilemma. Do you pay the premium price for comfort and convenience, or do you take it up the chute so you can get by with the el cheapo/free version? If you try to insist that the premium version should be cheap/free then all you can possibly succeed in doing is to convert it into the crap version.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorwhore yeah, it fucking sucks. BUT you have a choice, pay it to ride on it.... or sit in traffic for sometimes HOURS.

What happens if you pay to ride on it and then it ends up being clogged up too?! haha

I've never been on it, but Cale had to go to Toronto for a business trip a month or so back. He said he used it simply b/c if he had to take the 401 it would have taken a lot longer due to the location he was going to.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 socialized anything is rarely the way to go when you want to save money. The best way is properly regulated private sector delivery. But the key is in the balance struck when it comes to regulation. The 407 is an example of privatization without proper regulation. The P3 hospital deals (which mcguinty kept dispite his "opposition" to them) is a good example of proper regulation when it comes to the private sector

Though I agree a regulated private sector usually provides a better service, this is a case where I do not agree. It's bad enough that we built this road and basically sold it at cost, but now we are being charged through the nose to a to pad some spanish company's poket. An electronic toll road is something even the Ontario government(whoever is in power) could not mess up. They are not providing any type of "service", they are just taking pictures of our plates and sending us the bill, and what is even worse is they are not responsive when we call to complain, as stated in your original post. The money for this could used to generate revenue for the province and at a much lesser price.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Its like comparing apples and beer....the two systems are very different and yet also very similar

how are apples and beer similar?

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Originally posted by Cro_Addict how are apples and beer similar?

well, there is an apple beer!

407ETR in MARCH changed their policy... one transponder per plate..bc they noticed in the past when customers moved transponders between vehicles they were charged the VIDEO TOLL CHARGE of 3.50 bc the plate wasnt registered to the transponder they got it for... if the customer has one car.. and one transponder on separate accts they need to consolidate their vehicles into ONE SIMPLE BILL... so everything is together (associated) and then lease an additional transponder for an extra 1.00 per month or 10.50 for the year.. one transponder is 2.15+gst+pst per month, or 21.00+gst+pst for the year.. another factor for VIDEO TOLL CHARGES.. is a METALLIZED WINDHSHIELD.. or a REPLACED WINDSHIELD.. in that case... a customer can provide their VIN # on the back of their ownership and place a VIDEO TOLL CHARGE SUPPRESSION on their plate.. end of story... that is how to solve this problem.. if you consolidate your vehicles.. and have a transponder.. then you can use that trans in the one vehicle.. tell them to state that on the acct.. a consolidation takes 1-2 billing cycles to go through.. and you can lease an additional trans on the website i hope this helps...

ps. Jayx1-- a customer service rep will never hang up on the customer.. they arent allowed to.. if they do that is automatic dissmisal.. id like to know who did that though.. lol

quote:

Originally posted by 2famous4u ps. Jayx1-- a customer service rep will never hang up on the customer.. they arent allowed to.. if they do that is automatic dissmisal.. id like to know who did that though.. lol

as abercrombie said a TOTA work in the customer service department - I bet it was them, because knowing Jay he probably said "I have a problem, do you know who I am? I am Jayx1 and I am the TOTA priminister. . . . ." and before he could get another word in he heard the dial tone! just a lil joke to spice the thread up

quote:

Originally posted by 2famous4u 407ETR in MARCH changed their policy... one transponder per plate..bc they noticed in the past when customers moved transponders between vehicles they were charged the VIDEO TOLL CHARGE of 3.50 bc the plate wasnt registered to the transponder they got it for... if the customer has one car.. and one transponder on separate accts they need to consolidate their vehicles into ONE SIMPLE BILL... so everything is together (associated) and then lease an additional transponder for an extra 1.00 per month or 10.50 for the year.. one transponder is 2.15+gst+pst per month, or 21.00+gst+pst for the year.. another factor for VIDEO TOLL CHARGES.. is a METALLIZED WINDHSHIELD.. or a REPLACED WINDSHIELD.. in that case... a customer can provide their VIN # on the back of their ownership and place a VIDEO TOLL CHARGE SUPPRESSION on their plate.. end of story... that is how to solve this problem.. if you consolidate your vehicles.. and have a transponder.. then you can use that trans in the one vehicle.. tell them to state that on the acct.. a consolidation takes 1-2 billing cycles to go through.. and you can lease an additional trans on the website i hope this helps... ps. Jayx1-- a customer service rep will never hang up on the customer.. they arent allowed to.. if they do that is automatic dissmisal.. id like to know who did that though.. lol

had the people on the phone been this helpful this post wouldnt exist! Thanks!

However you do realize that by disallowing people to swap transponders you will be losing a tonne of business. How many times have i said to my friends "dont worry ill cover the toll" when i brought along the transponder in their car. Those people NEVER take the 407. Or in rental cars or for business.

Its a very bad policy

A little OT, but Jayx1, I appreciate your posts for one reason and one reason only: you do a great job of at least raising some awareness of the multitudes of issues around this city.

Its just a shame that you're the one to do it more than anyone else, and most have focused on your negativity.

As for the 407...It is far too expensive for what you get, but you have a choice. What pisses me off is the way the whole project was handled, from inception, and what really pisses me off is that it was privatized. Government made money from the sale, then they made even more money from leasing officers to patrol and enforce fines and rules(which they get cuts of) for a privately owned highway...


A buddy at work scams them right back. He drives a nice big SUV with his spare tire mounted to the back of the truck. The tire is mounted in such a way that cameras placed on the 407 can never get the angle to actually register the license plate, resulting in over 2 years of free 407 usage

zokissima: it sounds like the government is making alot of cash! can I buy some shares? what is their ticker symbol.

quote:

Originally posted by exstasie I think paying to use a road is pointless. Isn't that what taxes are for in the first place? I'd rather sit on the 401 then pay to drive on a highway...I just can't understand paying...

what? why should someone who doesn't drive a car have to pay for others that do?

drivers are supposed to pay, always! be it through tolls or taxes on gas...

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 what? why should someone who doesn't drive a car have to pay for others that do?

Do you honestly believe that because one does not drive a car they derive no benefit from the existance of public highways?

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Do you honestly believe that because one does not drive a car they derive no benefit from the existance of public highways?

there is benefit for goods transportation, etc, not for daily commuters who choose to live in the suburbs and drive to the city, which is what he was talking about in terms of tolled highways being stupid... if someone chooses to get rid of a car altogether and take public transport, reducing pollution, congestion, etc, then it's not fair that one person has to pay taxes so others continue to drive their cars

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 there is benefit for goods transportation, etc, not for daily commuters who choose to live in the suburbs and drive to the city, which is what he was talking about in terms of tolled highways being stupid... if someone chooses to get rid of a car altogether and take public transport, reducing pollution, congestion, etc, then it's not fair that one person has to pay taxes so others continue to drive their cars

Continuing with your argument.... is it fair that I (as someone who does not utilize public transit) subsidise your use of public transit. You are aware that your fares cover only a fraction of the cost to get you from point A to B right? I pay for your bus, your streetcar, your subway, and the roads and tracks that they run on. So I'll tell you what... when transit users volunteer to pay the full cost of transit then we can consider charging commuters for using the highways.... fair?

FYI, the ammenities you enjoy by living in the city are made possible by those that commute as without that additional work force the economy of this city would grind to a halt. Please don't think for one second that businesses, especially the big ones in toronto like finance and insurance wouldn't go with smaller offices in more locations if they had trouble attracting workers downtown. Also, you should realize that if barriers to commuting were made you'd have people looking for work closer to home rather then looking for homes closer to work.

perhaps if more people used public trasport, the money generated by that entity would help to pay for costs of road maintenance (which would be far less due to less vehicles on roads), etc.. the fact is that the traffic generated by public transport is a tiny fraction of that generated by drivers, so yes, it's very fair that drivers pay for maintenance through gas taxes and tolls, etc.. unless the habits that exist in the north american society about driving 1st and public transport 2nd change, the drivers ultimately should bare the costs of such choice... i can't help but draw comparisons to any european city where the choice is reversed

not sure what barriers you are referring to, i thought we were discussing who should be paying for costs of road maintenance, but the whole point is to have a lively, tightly integrated community, which would eliminate traffic congestion, which ultimately stems from idiotic city planning behind the ideoligy that people are to work in the city and live in the suburbs...

mute79, its almost impossible to make money out of public transit.

Even less pay for road maintenance from its hypothetical profits.

If the GTA wants more road, it has to tax its gaz more, its the best thing to do. Those who use, pay. And the more you drive, the more you'll have to pay!

quote:

Originally posted by malek Those who use, pay. And the more you drive, the more you'll have to pay!

precisely my point

quote:

Originally posted by malek Those who use, pay. And the more you drive, the more you'll have to pay!

Indeed, the same should be true of public transit... NO MORE SUBSIDIES! Enjoy your $12 bus ride!

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Indeed, the same should be true of public transit... NO MORE SUBSIDIES! Enjoy your $12 bus ride!

thanks, we will... and you can too

what's so difficult about understanding that? public transport is there for everyone!

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