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-- are you afraid to die
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I hope I die laughing.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On

I don't necessarily agree. I used to be scared of death when I was really young (ironically). When I was 5 or 6 I couldn't fall asleep sometimes cos i'd sit there thinking about how i was going to die when i got old.

These days I really don't care. My only concern is dying before my parents do, because I know the anguish it would cause them. Don't get me wrong I'm not reckless... I avoid death if I can. But if I had to stop existing tomorrow and couldn't do anything to stop it, it wouldn't cause a great deal of fear for me.

as far as evolution dictates, though sometimes when the dictation is less beneficial to me from my perspective than an alternative, supression via introspection and meditation takes over.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy But if I had to stop existing tomorrow and couldn't do anything to stop it, it wouldn't cause a great deal of fear for me.

+1

some of us mere mortals are capable of rational thought to that extent.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On If you say you're not afraid of death, it's only because you've never actually seen it before and can only speculate with uncertainty on what lies beyond it.

Er, no. You can in fact be as certain of what "lies beyond" as you can about anything if you have a modicum of sense. I mean, you won't have a functional nervous system, so that rules out having any sensory or cognitive functionality. Without the capability to perceive anything, much less process any information if you even had the capacity to receive or store it, the possibilities for what you might experience are pretty darn limited.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy if I had to stop existing tomorrow and couldn't do anything to stop it, it wouldn't cause a great deal of fear for me.

So you say today. It's always much easier to say today, rather than tomorrow.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Er, no. You can in fact be as certain of what "lies beyond" as you can about anything if you have a modicum of sense. I mean, you won't have a functional nervous system, so that rules out having any sensory or cognitive functionality. Without the capability to perceive anything, much less process any information if you even had the capacity to receive or store it, the possibilities for what you might experience are pretty darn limited.

Logically, sure.

Everything we have researched and studied about the process of death and sensation so far has indicated as such. But I am talking about the part of both the brain and the mind that considers what has been impossible - the part that many people's minds go to as soon as they see something that they don't understand. I'm not even necessarily speaking of a violent death and, as I already said, I'm not even necessarily speaking about being faced with the possibility of death or fear of the uncertain - I am saying that when somebody is faced with an imminent and sure sense of impending death, they will be afraid - not of pain, but of the lapse in their existence. Whether the fear is justified by rational sensation and consciousness is irrelevant, in my opinion. People don't think like that when they know they are going to die.

Consider the extermination of jews at Auschwitz Birkenau during WWII - the gas chambers they would fill wall to wall with people, stripped and herded in like cattle. Through the walls, they would inject Zyklon B, but many were dead before the gas even reached them. People knew that their death was coming, so out of sheer terror, they would topple over one another, crush each other, spew out their own organs, empty their bowels, and all of death panic - and imminent death, at that.

The process of dying is probably one as debilitating and serene as Arbiter described it. We can probably say with much certainty that people don't feel a whole lot of pain in their passing moments, nothing sensory at least, but the perception of pain is one that is most often much worse than the actual sensation. And fear of pain is a sensation much more severe than the actual torture of fleeting life, itself. For someone who has never died before, I doubt that the new experience of seeing one's own demise forthcoming is a fearless one.

But this isn't to instill fear in people, especially when it's already there, all by itself. I would say, from my experience, it's the things you don't ever see coming that kill you, so who has time to be afraid, anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Logically, sure. Everything we have researched and studied about the process of death and sensation so far has indicated as such. But I am talking about the part of both the brain and the mind that considers what has been impossible - the part that many people's minds go to as soon as they see something that they don't understand. I'm not even necessarily speaking of a violent death and, as I already said, I'm not even necessarily speaking about being faced with the possibility of death or fear of the uncertain - I am saying that when somebody is faced with an imminent and sure sense of impending death, they will be afraid - not of pain, but of the lapse in their existence. Whether the fear is justified by rational sensation and consciousness is irrelevant, in my opinion. People don't think like that when they know they are going to die.

instincts are default and nothing more, they can be surpassed. the way you present them is as though they're absolutes, which might be the case for most, but not for all.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T instincts are default and nothing more, they can be surpassed. the way you present them is as though they're absolutes, which might be the case for most, but not for all.

Do you fancy yourself above your instincts?

Lifes pretty good right now, if it all ended tomorrow I would be disappointed more than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Do you fancy yourself above your instincts?

potentially, yes.

edit:

quote:

from wikipedia Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a particular behavior. Instincts are generally inherited patterns of responses or reactions to certain kinds of stimuli. In humans they are most easily observed in behaviors such as emotions, sexual drive, and other bodily functions, as these are largely biologically determined. Instinct provides a response to external stimuli, which moves an organism to action, unless overridden by intelligence, which is creative and more versatile.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T potentially, yes.

Oh, pft, you listen to acid - of course you have an evolved sense of consciousness. That's cheating.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Oh, pft, you listen to acid - of course you have an evolved sense of consciousness. That's cheating.

hey, don't forget my affection to shemales, i'm sure that has bearing aswell

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T hey, don't forget my affection to shemales, i'm sure that has bearing aswell

Of course! Shemales are the evolution of human beings - they overcome the chromosome deficiency nonequivalence established by The great magnet. With the ability to both plant seed and nourish children, the possibilities for human potential are endless!

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On So you say today. It's always much easier to say today, rather than tomorrow.

[color=limegreen]That was arbitrary. If I had to die in an hour or a few minutes it wouldn't be something i would fear.[color]

Quite afraid, actually. So afraid that during discussions about it with various people I've actually come very close to vomiting.

Just think about it... You die, and for eternity there is nothing. Literally, NOTHING. Emptiness, vast, vast emptiness. I know that I wouldn't be conscious, but just knowing that there's nothing

And right now, I'm starting to get a panic attack. I'm just going to leave this thread before I puke.

quote:

Originally posted by idoru Quite afraid, actually. So afraid that during discussions about it with various people I've actually come very close to vomiting. Just think about it... You die, and for eternity there is nothing. Literally, NOTHING. Emptiness, vast, vast emptiness. I know that I wouldn't be conscious, but just knowing that there's nothing And right now, I'm starting to get a panic attack. I'm just going to leave this thread before I puke.

Don't worry yourself. It's not like when you die you'll consciously be able to determine that you're dead and that that's it. You can't prepare for the moment you die because you'll never experience that moment. Almost like you can't consciously identify the moment between being awake and falling asleep. That's what gets me...

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Originally posted by D-res Don't worry yourself. It's not like when you die you'll consciously be able to determine that you're dead and that that's it. You can't prepare for the moment you die because you'll never experience that moment. Almost like you can't consciously identify the moment between being awake and falling asleep. That's what gets me...

No, I know. It's just the fact that it's the one thing in life that is ultimately out of control. To think that I wont be able to be consciously be aware of the fact that it's happened, and that all conscious awareness will just vanish for eternity is what gets me.

Fuck.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy [color=limegreen]That was arbitrary.

So is death.

quote:

If I had to die in an hour or a few minutes it wouldn't be something i would fear.[color]

Well, just as anything, it's a matter of opinion - I think you would shit your pants, cry, or be really silently still with a gun in your mouth, knowing that the person wielding it had the intention of using it.

This is clearly an argument that is of no merit whatsoever though - so I'll just leave it at that and hope that we don't have to find out for sure anytime soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On So is death.

Yeah No shit. I meant my use of the word "tomorrow" was arbitrary, that the same would apply no matter what period of time i had chosen.

quote:

Well, just as anything, it's a matter of opinion - I think you would shit your pants, cry, or be really silently still with a gun in your mouth, knowing that the person wielding it had the intention of using it. This is clearly an argument that is of no merit whatsoever though - so I'll just leave it at that and hope that we don't have to find out for sure anytime soon.

If someone pointed a gun at my head, I'm pretty sure I would do whatever I thought was the best way of keeping myself alive, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be scared of dying. But that hypothetical scenario is neither here nor there.

What I can promise you is that since I was little I have not felt any fear of dying, and I don't feel any now. Which is a more pertinent answer to the original question of "are you [now] afraid to die?"

SAT question: Everyone will shit their pants when they die. Therefore everyone is scared to die.
True or False?

quote:

Originally posted by neovalkyr SAT question: Everyone will shit their pants when they die. Therefore everyone is scared to die. True or False?

c) all of the above.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy What I can promise you is that since I was little I have not felt any fear of dying, and I don't feel any now.

How often do you get the feeling that you are going to die though? I have no idea what it is you do for a living or what things are like *where* you live, but I am willing to bet that since you seem to have such free access to the internet, death is not something you face everyday - and if it is, it probably isn't necessarily your own. Not that I face it everyday or something, but as I understand it, the world is a frightening place, full of death and injustice, and people die every day for reasons that have nothing to do with them.

I used the gun in the mouth example as a hypothetical proposition (obviously) because it illustrates much of the world (some parts more than others) on several levels. Ignorance of one's own mortality is just as natural as the fear of death, in my opinion - It's this dual nature that leads to the basis for religion and other magicks that are, arguably, an inextricable part of the human condition, and a great cause for people to deny their fear of death, assured as they are at the foot of the throne of the Lord. It seems to me that most people are oblivious to their own mortality - as they should be - but we are in a world where someone could press a button and make us all die. Rockets could be on their way to your house at the moment, for all you know. Inexplicable, ridiculous, absurd, non-sensical: none of this will stop it from happening. Maybe we are just desensitized to it all in our placid state? This possibility of death has no bearing upon us whatsoever - it's like an internal defense system, a component of sentience, that allows us to not fully realize, at all times, just how fragile our lives are, just how easy it is for us to all go away. When this shield of ignorance is stripped from us however, what is left?

Most of us have had our brushes with death and are obviously still around to tell the tale - perhaps it is this particular outcome of pure luck that gives people such confidence in their facing it again (or saying they would have no qualms facing it again)? I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On

Having not conducted nearly enough research on the matter I can't speak for humanity at large or the human condition, save to say that many of my friends fear death, and others have thought about it at length and do not.

What I can say personally is that Death is something the possibility of which I can be aware of without having to face it daily. I spent much of my childhood in morbid fear of it. Once I faced and overcame it on a philosophical level I dealt with the fear.

Since then I've had several occasions where I nearly met an early demise; including a couple of times by my own hand. I've seen and touched lifeless corpses. I have watched several people die in front of me. I am well aware of death and all it's implications.

If there is a separation from death it only exists in the developed Western world. My grandparents speak of their death all the time quite happily. They were raised in a village with no embalmers and no undertakers. Your relatives die, you clean em up, nail a pine box together, chuck em in and bury them. Children died from pneumonia and other conditions all the time. People often got injured doing heavy work, sometimes losing limbs. They watched animals die all the time and when they got a bit older they helped slaughter them. The frail nature of the human body and its demise was very prevalent.

In Western culture death is mythologised and mystified. Corpses are sometimes hidden or buried beneath mounds of cosmetics and laid in expensive, soft, silk-lined coffins. Meat comes pre-cut, cleaned and shrink wrapped - you'd never know it came from an animal. So yeah maybe the developed world has an unhealthy attitude to death. But I doubt that can be extended to all of humanity throughout all of history. If anything it only applies to the past century and a minority of the world's population.

Im not afraid at all. When your times up your times up and theres nothing you can do about it.

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