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Originally posted by stren like i suspected, you mistook the melting pot theory with Salad bowl theory (lol btw) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_...ultural_idea%29

No, I didn't. For an academic description of the interpretation of the "melting pot" theory I'm putting forth, please feel free to email [email protected].

I'm not just pulling this out of my ass Stren. I studied sociology, specifically American Societal Problems, for 3 years. My education > Wiki.

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Originally posted by stren like i suspected, you mistook the melting pot theory with Salad bowl theory (lol btw) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_...ultural_idea%29

The theory and practice are very different. I think you'd be hard pressed to dispute that the US has taken a great number of influances from the native cultures of those who now comprise the US populace and incorporated them into their own unique culture. You see it everywhere; individual aspects of "foriegn" cultures featured as components of the US popular culture.

Also it seems like political correctness is implemented to everyday life. You gotta be careful what you're saying, so as not to offend anyone unintentionally.

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Originally posted by stren Also it seems like political correctness is implemented to everyday life. You gotta be careful what you're saying, so as not to offend anyone unintentionally.

Yes! Now this is an assumption about American society that I *think* the majority of the outside world has that is indeed correct.

The whole culture of "political correctness" here in the States is fucking terrible.

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Originally posted by RJT Where in this thread have I made ANY claim that Americans are innocent in all of this? There's a good chance we're far more guilty (in a historical sense) than any other nation in the world with regard to demonizing the rest of the world for our own gain. Does that somehow mean it's inappropriate for someone to stand up and clear the air?

Absolultely not, however, you seem to take great umbridge to the situation as if it is a personal attack and Americans are the only ones to have suffered it. All I'm trying to point out, Rob, is that this is the way of the world and I really don't see that you have any real cause for complaint.

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Originally posted by RJT I'm not just pulling this out of my ass Stren. I studied sociology, specifically American Societal Problems, for 3 years. My education > Wiki.

neither am I. I've had my fair share of classes on American history as well. /EOT

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Originally posted by RJT Yes! Now this is an assumption about American society that I *think* the majority of the outside world has that is indeed correct. The whole culture of "political correctness" here in the States is fucking terrible.

that's what i suspected. That's gotta be tough, my white brother lol

quote:

Originally posted by Ygrene Where are you seeing this?

american television.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Absolultely not, however, you seem to take great umbridge to the situation as if it is a personal attack and Americans are the only ones to have suffered it. All I'm trying to point out, Rob, is that this is the way of the world and I really don't see that you have any real cause for complaint.

The idea that the majority of folks posting in this thread seem to have that I'm so personally insulted by all of this is absurd. Do not mistake my use of firm language, unyielding stance in my position, and frank discussion of this matter for anything more than what it is. Any further inferences about my mental state or opinion made are yours, and yours alone.

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Originally posted by RJT The idea that the majority of folks posting in this thread seem to have that I'm so personally insulted by all of this is absurd. Do not mistake my use of firm language, unyielding stance in my position, and frank discussion of this matter for anything more than what it is. Any further inferences about my mental state or opinion made are yours, and yours alone.

Great! I'm happy to hear that you are not personally vested in the discussion; however, that begs the question, What do you hope to accomplish?

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Great! I'm happy to hear that you are not personally vested in the discussion; however, that begs the question, What do you hope to accomplish?

The same that anyone hopes to accomplish from discussing an issue where misconceptions lead to social problems, an open and honest discourse hoping to resolve some of the aforementioned misconceptions.

Without discussion like this, stereotypes and other undesireable assumptions remain, and ignorance is promoted. My only aim is for an accurate picture of American society to be portrayed, much in the same way I'd hope for an accurate picture of Canadian, Dutch, or Chinese societies would it be the case we were discussing global misperceptions of them.

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Originally posted by trancepunkk american television.

I watch American television too but, I don't see alot of people displaying their love for George Bush, Christianity, and wars for no reason.

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Originally posted by RJT The same that anyone hopes to accomplish from discussing an issue where misconceptions lead to social problems, an open and honest discourse hoping to resolve some of the aforementioned misconceptions. Without discussion like this, stereotypes and other undesireable assumptions remain, and ignorance is promoted. My only aim is for an accurate picture of American society to be portrayed, much in the same way I'd hope for an accurate picture of Canadian, Dutch, or Chinese societies would it be the case we were discussing global misperceptions of them.

I fear your efforts will prove fruitless. Those that are resolved to believe the stereotypes and misconceptions you seek to debunk will remain so regardless of any such discussion and those that would be swayed by your arguments against the same don't hold them to be true to begin with. Nevertheless, enjoy the exercise. As I am, clearly, not amongst those who subscribe to the views you seek to discuss my participation in this thread is of no further use.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I fear your efforts will prove fruitless. Those that are resolved to believe the stereotypes and misconceptions you seek to debunk will remain so regardless of any such discussion and those that would be swayed by your arguments against the same don't hold them to be true to begin with. Nevertheless, enjoy the exercise. As I am, clearly, not amongst those who subscribe to the views you seek to discuss my participation in this thread is of no further use.

If by "fruitless" you mean my goal of fighting the promotion of ignorance will not be accomplished completely, then you are absolutely correct. I, however, subscribe to the view that even if the only thing gained from this thread is that I'm exposed to different worldviews or assumptions then I have been successful.

My goal here is really only to learn, and educate if/when possible.

Because your a load fat inbred butter burger eating c*nts. Only messing

I've met some really cool and intresting yanks, who are cultured, well travelled and educated. I've met some who don't have them qualities however they've been decent people.

My only problem when it comes to American's is when I've encountered you guys abroad on your annual summer holiday. Back in Italy earlier this year I found some of the manners your fellow countrymen displayed the locals was sub basement level and the pompous attitude which accompanied it sucked too.

With this statement I'll provide some examples. Big fat septic lady sitting in the lobby her husband asks the woman behind the front desk to get her some ice, as asked she get's some ice however it's not enough so her husband starts screaming his head speaking to the Italian lady like sh*t. I saw at least ten more incidents like this in my hotel.

In every bar you'd get either some fat family piling into a 100 course meal or some tw*thead couple wearing their sh*tty Abercombie and Finch polo gear walking around like they owned the place.

Another generic thing which really f*cking annoys me is when American's claim they won WWI and WWII single handedly and no other country done nothing. I blaim Hollywood for this.

But saying that I went to NYC in August and I found the locals alright. In Italy I found a bar where there was some American students and I thought they were really nice people and I had a right laugh with them.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT How? The U.S. is by far the most ethnically/religious/culturally diverse nation in the world.

RJT, while i do respect you, i will have to say that this is probably the most blatantly untrue statement on the planet. but religious diversity is not exactly a huge thing in the US. unless looney christians are "diverse"

when i think US, religious diversity doesnt pop into my head. neither does culturaly divers.... however i do like the fact that most of oyur imigrants decide to learn english after living in your country for more than 5 years. which is more than i can say for ours. hell there are imigrants in toronto that have been living here for 25 years who cant say hi unless its in cantonese, punjab or arabic.......

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan Because your a load fat inbred butter burger eating c*nts. Only messing I've met some really cool and intresting yanks, who are cultured, well travelled and educated. I've met some who don't have them qualities however they've been decent people. My only problem when it comes to American's is when I've encountered you guys abroad on your annual summer holiday. Back in Italy earlier this year I found some of the manners your fellow countrymen displayed the locals was sub basement level and the pompous attitude which accompanied it sucked too. With this statement I'll provide some examples. Big fat septic lady sitting in the lobby her husband asks the woman behind the front desk to get her some ice, as asked she get's some ice however it's not enough so her husband starts screaming his head speaking to the Italian lady like sh*t. I saw at least ten more incidents like this in my hotel. In every bar you'd get either some fat family piling into a 100 course meal or some tw*thead couple wearing their sh*tty Abercombie and Finch polo gear walking around like they owned the place. Another generic thing which really f*cking annoys me is when American's claim they won WWI and WWII single handedly and no other country done nothing. I blaim Hollywood for this. But saying that I went to NYC in August and I found the locals alright. In Italy I found a bar where there was some American students and I thought they were really nice people and I had a right laugh with them.

I agree with just about everything in there 100%, and will say this much: During my time in the Netherlands, I can't even count how many times I was thoroughly embarassed by my countrymen. My guess is that a big part of the problem with Americans abroad is that a large majority of them generally fall into two categories:

1. The American tourist who will get one trip out of the country in his/her life, generally taken during middle age. These tourists (often families) do absolutely nothing to prepare for cultural differences, and expect vacation in another country to be the same as every vacation they've taken in America. They generally act like asses out of shear ignorance, and it's painful to watch because many of them are well meaning, but just completely oblivious to the fact they're outside of America.

2. The privileged American Student. These are kids who've grown up in privilege their entire lives and feel the world owes them something. Easily the worst of Americans abroad, these kinds think they're intelligent when in reality their parents money has bought them everything in life, including their grades. They feel everyone owes us, and we're the greatest. Fucking twats.

'Tis a shame, because most of us are fairly courteous people...

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp RJT, while i do respect you, i will have to say that this is probably the most blatantly untrue statement on the planet. but religious diversity is not exactly a huge thing in the US. unless looney christians are "diverse"

Religious diversity is the only reason the U.S. exists.

i would say generelly speaking at least here .....that we dont really accept the fact that US being the super world of this world rules the world and more or less tries to teach lessons to every others countries of the world sometimes without even looking first at their own situation....i would say this way of ruling increased with Bush governement and the anti american feeling grew up here since the new governement installed on the other hand clinton was kinda liked maybe not like fan but at least we hadnt much to complain about .....

so this is kind of arrogance and power which irritate us because then it tends to feel like america looks down upon the rest of the world and can allow herself to do things because its the most powerful country

i speak from a generally speaking point of view but i would say what i wrote is actually one of my view as well ....though i find your country amazing and so different from here !

i would say america fascinates and brings contempt at the same time here

quote:

Originally posted by RJT The U.S. is by far the most ethnically/religious/culturally diverse nation in the world.

I think the U.S. govt needs to fix its own problems before trying to fix or even getting involved in others. Not everything is about money and power - this comes across from the US/world media.

Seriously, one U2 concert sent a more positive message about fighting for human rights than any Bush speech I've ever seen or heard.

I've met quite a few really cool Americans, always up for a good time. They've never fit the stereotype.

It's the clueless people like George W Bush, and others in American reality TV shows, that don't help alter the perception.

Yes, we shouldn't listen to the media but it's the only exposure people outside the country can get without actually being there.

This works both ways, many Americans would make assumptions about people outside of the U.S based on what they've seen/heard/read too.

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Originally posted by eRRaTiK I think the U.S. govt needs to fix its own problems before trying to fix or even getting involved in others. Not everything is about money and power - this comes across from the US/world media.

i couldnt agree with you more

there's so many problems with things as fundamental as healthcare, social security, welfare, etc, why are we ignoring these problems and just creating new problems in other countries?

So in general it appears that the consensus is genuinely:

American Government = Bad

American People = Good (For the most part)



This would have been my general assumption about asking people who'd think about the question both thoughtfully and personally, but suspending those kinds of personal feelings I think it's undeniable that the international community has some assumptions about the actions or values of Americans in general. For instance, Marie used the word "arrogance," which I think is a term many people would place on Americans (and perhaps justly). This though begs the question "is the perceived arrogance of Americans a result of our foreign policy in the world and not a genuine indication of American people as a whole?"

My guess is the answer is yes, in which case I'm even more depressed by my governments misrepresentation of me in the world...

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Originally posted by ATL_Trancer i couldnt agree with you more there's so many problems with things as fundamental as healthcare, social security, welfare, etc, why are we ignoring these problems and just creating new problems in other countries?

like erratik said and u say that's exactly what i meant in my post .....though i agree every countries should be tolerant and accept criticisms from others countries but criticisms can be useful and good to improve ....but i dont think it gotta become a way of trying to dominate the world and impose to all the countries their system with values in an authorative way.

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Originally posted by RJT My guess is the answer is yes, in which case I'm even more depressed by my governments misrepresentation of me in the world...

well stop electing fuckwits to power*.

*note: this statement applies to the Australian prime minister also. He's Mr Bush's sideshow Bob.

EDIT: of course one could argue that the figure head of the country is elected by the people and is thus representative of the people.

quote:

Originally posted by CranberryJuice but i dont think it gotta become a way of trying to dominate the world and impose to all the countries their system with values in an authorative way.

I'm sorry.

These are the kinds of misconceptions and misunderstandings that really bother me - Because most Americans don't realize that there's a GOOD reason people feel the way they do towards us, and that criticism made in that vein is wholely justifiable.

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