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-- Armin - Communication = Cheesy Trance?
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It never ceases to amaze me how few people actually know what "cheesy" means. I mean, for fuck's sake. Popular doesn't mean cheesy. Mainstream doesn't mean cheesy.

What we're dealing with here, is something called perspective. So many short-sighted dicks on this forum draw the cheese line based on what their favourite genre is. So if you're into Detroit Techno and spend an entire Jeff Mills DJ set cracking one off, you'll say all trance is cheesy. If you're into epic, melodramatic, Dutch pap you'll only consider stuff like happy hardcore to be cheesy, and you'll probably call everything else dull or snobby. If you're into Scouse House then you have a rare brain condition and can't actually experience the sensation of cheese at all.

was decent for its time. he needs to stop remaking it every bloody year though, the new version sucks

I've always thought 'cheesy' just means corny, embarrassingly clich�d, the musical equivalent of a chat-up line or a Schwarzenegger quote. Catchy but very simple melodies based around C F and G chords, simplistic inoffensive lyrics, stuff like that.

On here, cheese threads are just an excuse for dickheads to name tracks they know have a big following on this forum, just to be provocative.

quote:

Originally posted by Col I've always thought 'cheesy' just means corny, embarrassingly clich�d, the musical equivalent of a chat-up line or a Schwarzenegger quote. Catchy but very simple melodies based around C F and G chords, simplistic inoffensive lyrics, stuff like that. On here, cheese threads are just an excuse for dickheads to name tracks they know have a big following on this forum, just to be provocative.

Here's my definition of the term, which I wrote a while ago. And basically, it's the same as yours:


Cheesy music is simply corny: for whatever reason, it is music you are unable to take seriously. It might be because it's taking itself too seriously, or it might simply be because it has pitched-up chipmunk vocals. Cheese can be outstandingly innovative, incredibly high quality or simply stupid bollocks. Anyone who tries to define cheesey beyond that simply doesn't know the meaning of the word. You can have a cheesy smile, a cheesy advert... anything can be cheesy. It's simply something that cannot be taken as serious or straight-faced, whether or not it is aiming for that impression.

The Prodigy's "Out of Space" is probably the best cheesy dance track there is. It's 14 years old and still played out to fuck. It's a total classic, and loved throughout dance music circles. It's loved throughout all circles. I still hear it being blasted out of trendy clothes shop speakers. However, with its Jamaican vocals, comedy "boing" sounds and a sped up Ultramagnetic MC, it is undeniably cheese. You still dig it's vintage rave, "let's fucking 'ave it" high-energy vibes, but you don't take it seriously.

At the other end of the scale there is Rank 1's "Airwave", such a horrifically overblown piece of schmaltz that only a small child can possibly take it seriously. It goes so far into trying to be serious that it breaks- you stop believing in whatever emotional message it's trying to pipe you.

Somewhere in between, there is the rest of cheese. DJ Alligator Project's Whistle Song is a classic example of bad cheese because it is built entirely out of stupid, immature, daft ingredients. However, the straight-faced lyrics and stern Germanic commands, it contradicts itself. It's also sold to 12 year old kids who go to youth clubs, who take it desperately seriously because they don't know any better.

Contrasting that is 2 Unlimited's "Get Ready For This", a classic example of good cheese. It's got a killer hook and the rhythmic balance is awesome, yet it's clearly poppy euro-trash and doesn't try and hide it. It's all in good fun.

That's the difference between good and bad cheese. Good cheese knows its stupid and is there to unplug your head to. Bad cheese wants to be something else, but its creator is so fucking incompetent that they can't deliver their message.

I suppose you can consider anything armin does cheesy, but in my opinion id consider anything dj sammy does to be far cheesier.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Cheesy music is simply corny: for whatever reason, it is music you are unable to take seriously. It might be because it's taking itself too seriously, or it might simply be because it has pitched-up chipmunk vocals. Cheese can be outstandingly innovative, incredibly high quality or simply stupid bollocks. Anyone who tries to define cheesey beyond that simply doesn't know the meaning of the word. You can have a cheesy smile, a cheesy advert... anything can be cheesy. It's simply something that cannot be taken as serious or straight-faced, whether or not it is aiming for that impression. The Prodigy's "Out of Space" is probably the best cheesy dance track there is. It's 14 years old and still played out to fuck. It's a total classic, and loved throughout dance music circles. It's loved throughout all circles. I still hear it being blasted out of trendy clothes shop speakers. However, with its Jamaican vocals, comedy "boing" sounds and a sped up Ultramagnetic MC, it is undeniably cheese. You still dig it's vintage rave, "let's fucking 'ave it" high-energy vibes, but you don't take it seriously. At the other end of the scale there is Rank 1's "Airwave", such a horrifically overblown piece of schmaltz that only a small child can possibly take it seriously. It goes so far into trying to be serious that it breaks- you stop believing in whatever emotional message it's trying to pipe you. Somewhere in between, there is the rest of cheese. DJ Alligator Project's Whistle Song is a classic example of bad cheese because it is built entirely out of stupid, immature, daft ingredients. However, the straight-faced lyrics and stern Germanic commands, it contradicts itself. It's also sold to 12 year old kids who go to youth clubs, who take it desperately seriously because they don't know any better. Contrasting that is 2 Unlimited's "Get Ready For This", a classic example of good cheese. It's got a killer hook and the rhythmic balance is awesome, yet it's clearly poppy euro-trash and doesn't try and hide it. It's all in good fun. That's the difference between good and bad cheese. Good cheese knows its stupid and is there to unplug your head to. Bad cheese wants to be something else, but its creator is so fucking incompetent that they can't deliver their message.

Yeah, good shout.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Somewhere in between, there is the rest of cheese. DJ Alligator Project's Whistle Song is a classic example of bad cheese because it is built entirely out of stupid, immature, daft ingredients. However, the straight-faced lyrics and stern Germanic commands, it contradicts itself. It's also sold to 12 year old kids who go to youth clubs, who take it desperately seriously because they don't know any better.

Just because a track's fans take it seriously doesn't mean the track takes itself seriously or the producer takes it seriously. Or are you going to say that every track that says "jump up and get your groove on" or any other "command" is bad cheese? I think you're just hitting your own wall of perspective, because there is no way DJ Alligator Project could see that track as anything more than hilarious, fun dance music. He has no bearing on how his music is received.

it makes a great cell phone ringer.

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Originally posted by distant Once you hear some of the wickedest, most masculine music in the world, e.g. dubstep, raggacore and jungle, it's not hard to see epic trance as kiddie music. I'm serious, try it.

i know but srsly, seems that everyday something that people found masculine music yesterday is soon cheese the day after

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Originally posted by jupiterone i know but srsly, seems that everyday something that people found masculine music yesterday is soon cheese the day after

I can't see Neil Landstrumm - Harlem Shoot Me or Boxcutter - Tauhid ever being cheesy.

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Originally posted by distant I can't see Neil Landstrumm - Harlem Shoot Me or Boxcutter - Tauhid ever being cheesy.

I dunno, Dieselboy's latest stuff has been walking along the cheese trance line ever since Dungeonmaster's Guide. Sometimes it's stepped across it entirely.

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex I think you're just hitting your own wall of perspective, because there is no way DJ Alligator Project could see that track as anything more than hilarious, fun dance music. He has no bearing on how his music is received.

Yeah, just like The Lord of Bass, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex I dunno, Dieselboy's latest stuff has been walking along the cheese trance line ever since Dungeonmaster's Guide. Sometimes it's stepped across it entirely.

Fair enough.

Amit - Too Many Freedoms is freakin' rippin', the way d'n'b should be done.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yeah, just like The Lord of Bass, eh?

When's the last time DJ Alligator Project ran around screaming "IF YOU WANT TO BE HARDCORE AND GET AWAY FROM THE POPPY CRAP, LISTEN TO DENMARK'S NUMBER ONE HARD HOUSE PRODUCER!!!! STAY UNDERGROUND STAY PURE!!!!"?

If you can find him saying that, then I'll concede.

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex When's the last time DJ Alligator Project ran around screaming "IF YOU WANT TO BE HARDCORE AND GET AWAY FROM THE POPPY CRAP, LISTEN TO DENMARK'S NUMBER ONE HARD HOUSE PRODUCER!!!! STAY UNDERGROUND STAY PURE!!!!"? If you can find him saying that, then I'll concede.

Concede? You haven't actually shown me anything to say that he made the track completely tongue-in-cheek. And if your reasoning is entirely that "it's too stupid to be serious", you'd have to be saying that same thing about every similar artist he is associated with. As well as just about every stupid genre out there.

Anyway, check his website out. It doesn't seem like he's marketing himself or presenting himself to his fans as tongue-in-cheek.

And it's not quite "STAY UNDERGROUND STAY PURE", but I can give you "...and ready to BASS your head up". How's that?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Concede? You haven't actually shown me anything to say that he made the track completely tongue-in-cheek. And if your reasoning is entirely that "it's too stupid to be serious", you'd have to be saying that same thing about every similar artist he is associated with. As well as just about every stupid genre out there.

You made the assertion that he was bad cheese. I'm saying I see none of the feigned earnestness that you're saying it has. The burden of proof is not on me.

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It doesn't seem like he's marketing himself or presenting himself to his fans as tongue-in-cheek.

Marketing is never understated. Does Prodigy's website advertise the slaphappy rave group that made Out of Space?

So he's "...ready to BASS your head up" That means he'll give me bass, and he kinda does. What's wrong with that?

In fact, the description of how the song went together isn't even all that flattering. He whipped up a bass melody in about five hours, sampled a whistle he found somewhere, made a few recordings, and was done. What do people who take their music seriously say? Sasha took years to finish Airdrawndagger because he wanted it to be "as near to perfect as possible." I think Ali sees the track as his big break and insofar as that, it probably holds special value to him, but I doubt he sees it as more hardcore and therefore better.

I'll admit, however that his description as "Trance/Techno" on his myspace seems odd, although that may just be pandering.

as if put dj sammy and oceanlab in the same boat.....fucken hell some of the lyrics to oceanlab's songs may be cheesy but the tracks are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy better in quality.

still a fav of mine. and hearing in a club is pretty damn slick. not cheese. just good old Armin

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex You made the assertion that he was bad cheese. I'm saying I see none of the feigned earnestness that you're saying it has. The burden of proof is not on me.

I'm saying the record itself has a contradiction of sounds- daft and serious- and the serious does not sound nor present itself as tongue-in-cheek.

quote:

Marketing is never understated. Does Prodigy's website advertise the slaphappy rave group that made Out of Space?

Talk about a fucking false analogy if ever there was one. You should know perfectly well that Howlett has all but disowned his Experience days and The Prodigy won't ever make another Out of Space. However, why don't you check out the video to Out of Space and tell me it has the same presentation as modern day Prodge? Oh no wait- hold on, that'd be an utter waste of time.

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So he's "...ready to BASS your head up" That means he'll give me bass, and he kinda does. What's wrong with that?

Don't be obtuse. It sounds fucking ridiculous. The emphasis on the word "BASS" alone is idiotic, let alone next to the phrase "your head up".

quote:

In fact, the description of how the song went together isn't even all that flattering. He whipped up a bass melody in about five hours, sampled a whistle he found somewhere, made a few recordings, and was done. What do people who take their music seriously say? Sasha took years to finish Airdrawndagger because he wanted it to be "as near to perfect as possible." I think Ali sees the track as his big break and insofar as that, it probably holds special value to him, but I doubt he sees it as more hardcore and therefore better.

I notice how you ignore all the bits about him taking it to "underground" DJs who loved it, or his long-running intro to his biography that could be any serious artist for all you know. Oh, and I can't find the record right now for a direct quote, but if you look to Faithless' Greatest Hits album inlay you'll see a description about Insomnia saying how Sister Bliss "came up with the hook in 10 minutes" and how quickly written the record was. And who's going to deny that Faithless are a serious act?

quote:

Originally posted by trancepunkk as if put dj sammy and oceanlab in the same boat.....fucken hell some of the lyrics to oceanlab's songs may be cheesy but the tracks are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy better in quality.

vocalwise you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. they are both just as cheesy.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 vocalwise you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. they are both just as cheesy.

...and the production quality doesn't differ all that much either.

I knew that no matter how bored I was, I shouldn't click on this thread. I did anyway.

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Originally posted by RJT I knew that no matter how bored I was, I shouldn't click on this thread. I did anyway.

Get in. You know you want to.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Get in. You know you want to.

I'm also strongly resisting the urge to not participate.

quote:

Originally posted by UWM I'm also strongly resisting the urge to not participate.

I think at this point our entry into this thread would just prove excessive.

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