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-- Saddam Died Beautiful
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I just find a nasty sentiment of hatred if you where to put a comparison between what Slobodan Milosevic got up too and what Saddam Hussein, along with the resulting effects of the US in their countries to topple their dictatorships.
Neither are admirable leaders who commited horrific acts, yet young men seem drawn to them as some kind of rolemodel. I just really dont understand this kind of sentiment, I really dont just as much as I loathe what the US government is doing around the world. Theres just no justification in my mind to wish for the death of anyone overseas in the US armed forces.
By all means, wish Bush was dead or at least removed as well but wishing for the death of soldiers? Especially with the current, complicated situation in Iraq is just horrible, a lot dont want to be there and wriggling out of a contract with the US armed forces isnt exactly something you can do very easily.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith I just find a nasty sentiment of hatred if you where to put a comparison between what Slobodan Milosevic got up too and what Saddam Hussein, along with the resulting effects of the US in their countries to topple their dictatorships. Neither are admirable leaders who commited horrific acts, yet young men seem drawn to them as some kind of rolemodel.

I don't recall ergada praising any othem.

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Originally posted by Lilith I just really dont understand this kind of sentiment, I really dont just as much as I loathe what the US government is doing around the world. Theres just no justification in my mind to wish for the death of anyone overseas in the US armed forces.

If they're torturing/raping/murdering innoccent people, I can easily understand why people would want to see them six feet under. I've posted articles etc about that stuff countless times. The US forces are agressors there, far worse than the terroirsts.

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Originally posted by Lilith By all means, wish Bush was dead or at least removed as well but wishing for the death of soldiers? Especially with the current, complicated situation in Iraq is just horrible, a lot dont want to be there and wriggling out of a contract with the US armed forces isnt exactly something you can do very easily.

Read above.

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Originally posted by erdega Tell me do you find it sick of American generals to be celebrating murder of civilians or trying to misrepresent it?

example? i sincerely want to answer your question but i'm gonna need an example.

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Do you find it sick to have journalists like Bill O'Reilly who has a top show on television and Thomas Friedman the main foreign editor of NYT to be constantly dehumanizing civilians in foreign lands and inciting their murder for a national megalomania ?

this war has nothing to do with O'rielly or the NYT or any media for that matter. the media is a consequence of the war, not the other way around and not the way you are trying to portray it.

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Americans are occupiers and thus solely responsible for safety of people and property.

agreed

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There wasn't any comparable violence before Americans came thus Iraqis have full right to kill american soldiers.

thats a very simplistic view and Saddam is said to have killed a million Iraqis, but it's yours and i respect that. however, the Iraqi people killing Americans are also killing 10 times more Iraqis. the other people killing Americans aren't even from Iraq. that should be unacceptable to anyone including you. and if you truly believe that American soldiers are the protectors (which they undeniably are) then you must find yourself in a moral quandry, a double standard.

Iraqis have the full right to kill Americans is wrong for one reason. the Courts just killed Saddam for what you accuse the Americans of doing. the courts want us to stay.

and your natural reaction would be, "well, the courts must be complicit with the AngloAmerican murderers". right?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Your bullshit claim of him being "anti-white" speaks volumes about your credibility on the other hand.

more argumetative ad hominem. didn't you just say something about that? you want to start talking about my cock again? it's prolly killin ya, right?

i just reacting to what HE wrote, man. im not a frikken mind reader.

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Originally posted by Q5echo more argumetative ad hominem. didn't you just say something about that?

Nope. Pointing out your false accusations/hypocrisy/logical/ethical inconsistancy doesn't qualify as argumetative ad hominem. It's relevance to your arguement and lack of credibility demostrate weakness in your arguemnts. I don't really need to do that really as since it's so blatantly obvious in your posts. You're just too fucking stupid, indoctrinated, and arrogant to take notice of it.

I mean really.
Where is the sense to all this?

Red team we've got the boys cheering on their dead dictator that got to power with assassination and continued for many years engaging in wars that killed and wounded millions.
Blue team the boys are cheering for the retarded, cashed up trash that made good by jerrymandering the votes and continued for many years engaging in wars that killed and wounded millions.

Whats to admire?
0
Spare me the crud about how both men did what they thought was right or made their country something to be respected, neither have contributed anything to the world but wide ranging destabilisation.

And at the end of the day theres the little people down the bottom, just like you, me, him, her and regardless of our political interests and cultural backgrounds we all seem to have fallen into that trap of hatred, violence and venom for one another. Which is and always will be the mark of stupidity on our own behalf because we're ignoring the fact that the people in power and the people responsible for this have absolutely no redeeming features and distracted by the buy in bulk homicide they sell to keep distracting us from the fact they're certainly not selling anyone a better life, a future or any kind of support for their societies.
All we end up with is hate.
And that stems from the fact of politicians forcing us into wars where our two sides go into it and end up with people getting killed, of course we'll hate the other side, theyre killing us, killing people we know and we'll hold that kind of hatred to the grave. Probably passing it onto the next generation after us and theirs to their own.

This is the great, all time joke the people in power have with us with their sociopathic power games and every generation, we fall for the same old crap.
We dont get any better than the last generation.
We dont learn anything objective.
We add another corpse to the chip on the shoulder of the next generation and we seem incapable of breaking the cycle of government and religious endorsed homicide.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Nope. Pointing out your false accusations/hypocrisy/logical/ethical inconsistancy doesn't qualify as argumetative ad hominem.

it is if you fail to at least try and prove it!. you can accuse me of raping your pet goat and it'll be an ad hominem all day until you at least demonstrate once and for all i did, in fact, rape your goat.

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It's relevance to your arguement and lack of credibility demostrate weakness in your arguemnts. I don't really need to do that really as since it's so blatantly obvious in your posts. You're just too fucking stupid, indoctrinated, and arrogant to take notice of it.

yeah, someone else needs to make sense out of this for me. i guess i'm too stupid and indoctrinated. that should at the very least prove i'm not arrogant.

I'd just like to say, everytime I see the name of this
thread I can't help but think it's so wrong on so many
levels.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Pointing out your false accusations/hypocrisy/logical/ethical inconsistancy doesn't qualify as argumetative ad hominem. It's relevance to your arguement and lack of credibility demostrate weakness in your arguemnts. I don't really need to do that really as since it's so blatantly obvious in your posts. You're just too fucking stupid, indoctrinated, and arrogant to take notice of it.

I can say the same thing about you, you label the ENTIRE US
Military in every thread and sometimes say 'some of them'.
False labeling, it's stupid and arrogant. They're better
people than you will ever be sitting at home being an
armchair general...

settle down you damn kids!!! mesican trying to watch TV, ha ha ha ha

I rememeber somewhere someone was asking for english transcript of what was going on in that execution room in Saddam's final moments..

Their was a report today in newspaper that Blair has made clear his dissapointent at the way Saddam was executed. Reportely these people were hurling slangs and insults at Saddam. And Saddam was remembering god and taking his name.

Saddam was not executed, he was lynched to death.

Who cares now?

The West (the UK and the US) is about to get a control on what was the real reason of this war.

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Originally posted by Purple Saddam was not executed, he was lynched to death.

lol. As opposed to lynched into a coma? Lynched into an epileptic fit? Lynched to partial death?

The Economist had a good piece on this. Don't let any lack of decorum in the procedure of his execution take away from the fact that he was a brutal and ruthless dictator. His fate was decided in a courtroom according to the law. He had a fair trial--something he denied thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of civilians while he was throwing them in meat grinders and killing for sport.

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A BOTCHED war, a botched trial and now a botched execution: Iraq obstinately refuses to behave in accordance with the script its American conquerors have written for it. Bringing the loathsome Saddam Hussein to justice should have been a propaganda victory for the United States. But his execution on December 30th looked less like the meting out of justice than like one of the sordid snuff videos circulated on the internet by al-Qaeda. Had the Americans hanged him themselves, the condemned man might have been treated with a modicum of dignity. His Iraqi executioners had other ideas. Some preferred to tease and taunt him to his death, and then continued to taunt his hanging corpse. In the end it was he who showed dignity�together with defiance and an utter lack of remorse. And it was his executioners who turned what could have been a moment of catharsis for Iraqis into something that looked primitively cruel, more likely to deepen than to heal Iraq's lethal sectarian divisions. It is only natural for decent people around the world to be repelled by such an execution. But neither the bungled hanging nor the many inadequacies of the trial that preceded it should obscure the fact that Saddam was a criminal and murderer on an epic scale. Although many people will condemn his hanging as �victors� justice�, this was no miscarriage of justice in the normal sense of the phrase. There can be no doubt that the former dictator was guilty of heinous crimes against humanity, including the slaughter of scores if not hundreds of thousands of Iraq's own Kurds and Shias (see article). The megalomaniac who styled himself after Nebuchadnezzar and Saladin also launched two wars of aggression. The invasion of Iran consumed more than a million lives; the invasion of Kuwait set in motion a chain of events that led ultimately to his own country's occupation by America. The tribunal that sentenced him was indeed imperfect. The Iraqi judges squandered the opportunity to show a country emerging from dictatorship how due process ought to work. All the same, theirs was not a kangaroo court. The judges examined evidence and heard the case for the defence. They did not send an innocent man to the gallows. As for the sentence itself, many people believe, as does The Economist, that capital punishment is wrong in principle. This view is not, however, universal even in the rich and peaceful societies of the West. In Iraq, whose people have experienced decades of extreme political violence, a principled objection to capital punishment strikes many as bizarre. The millions who lost loved ones at the dictator's hands expected him to pay with his life, and would have felt cheated if he hadn't. It was not victors' justice but victims' justice that condemned him to hang. Disposing of a man is easier than disposing of a myth. In life Saddam had admirers and helpers even during his worst excesses. The Americans and the French supported him against revolutionary Iran. The Arab masses loved him for lobbing missiles at Tel Aviv. He was fawned over at different times by Donald Rumsfeld and by George Galloway, a left-wing British MP. The danger now is that the gloating of his Shia executioners will make him into a martyr for the Sunni cause. That would be a travesty. Saddam's legacy was blood and misery for all. It is a pity he was executed before the full extent of his crimes could be investigated and revealed in court. Iraq's government could make amends for the mistake of his over-hasty execution by making sure those investigations continue.

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Originally posted by Shakka lol. As opposed to lynched into a coma? Lynched into an epileptic fit? Lynched to partial death? The Economist had a good piece on this. Don't let any lack of decorum in the procedure of his execution take away from the fact that he was a brutal and ruthless dictator. His fate was decided in a courtroom according to the law. He had a fair trial--something he denied thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of civilians while he was throwing them in meat grinders and killing for sport.

If he had a fair trial, Bush Sr., James Baker, Ronald Raegan (who's already dead), Donald Rumsfeld and the likes would have shared the same fate.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z If he had a fair trial, Bush Sr., James Baker, Ronald Raegan (who's already dead), Donald Rumsfeld and the likes would have shared the same fate.

Hardly. They have not been tried for anything. Saddam was. Now you're just being bitter. But hey, I guess you got Reagan, so it must be all square, right? I mean Reagan never did anything positive other than rape and murder innocent Americans.

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Originally posted by Shakka Hardly. They have not been tried for anything. Saddam was. Now you're just being bitter. But hey, I guess you got Reagan, so it must be all square, right? I mean Reagan never did anything positive other than rape and murder innocent Americans.

Yup.

"Rape and murder innocent Americans"? lol, did you mean
to type Americans Shakka?

I think the reason shaolin likes to accuse the military
of being a majority of child killers and rapists because
he didn't get a reach-around last time they had him. He's
just sore. Ha get it? Sore? Ahhh, I kill myself.

The reaction in the Middle East has been interesting.

From Agence France Presse:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,1011...from=public_rss

quote:

AT least seven children worldwide have died in re-enactments of the execution of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. Television pictures of Saddam's hanging in Baghdad on December 30 were broadcast globally, and a more graphic and grisly bootleg video of his execution, shot using a mobile phone, spread like wildfire on the internet. The latest victim was a boy of 12, who hanged himself in north-east Saudi Arabia on Sunday, the daily Al-Hayat reported today. He stood on a chair and wrapped wire round his neck before attaching it to the door of the family home at Hafr al-Batin, the paper said. The boy had seen Saddam's execution on television. After the Baghdad hanging in which Saddam was executed for the killings of 148 Shiite villagers in the 1980s, Al-Iraqiya public television was the first to broadcast footage of the fallen tyrant's final moments. By December 31 a pirate video of the hanging was already available on the internet, extracts from which were also transmitted by TV channels. In Yemen bordering Saudi Arabia, police said two 13-year-old boys met the same fate as the former Iraqi president. Saddam Hussein � a widely used patronymic � al-Jaki wrapped a cord around his neck on Wednesday and hanged himself from a tree at his home in the capital Sanaa. Three days later, Mohammed al-Razami was playing with a group of friends in Syani village, 200km south of Sanaa, when he attached a rope hanging from a tree around his neck. The youth struggled to save himself but could not. In Pakistan, police said a young boy who tried to copy scenes from the execution video died in a similar manner. Mubashar Ali, nine, hanged himself while re-enacting Saddam's hanging with the help of his elder sister, 10. He tied a rope to a ceiling fan and then to his neck at his home in Rahim Yar Khan district on December 31. His father said the children had been watching the video on television and tried to imitate the hanging when other family members thought they were just playing in another room. A 15-year-old girl from eastern India also hanged herself from a ceiling fan after watching the execution, her father said. "She said they had hanged a patriot. We didn't take her seriously when she told us that she wanted to feel the pain Saddam did during the execution," the girl's father said. He said his daughter, called Moon Moon, had become extremely depressed after watching TV pictures of Saddam's death. "She kept watching the scene over and again and didn't take food on Saturday and Sunday to protest the hanging," he said. Moon Moon died on January 4. In the US, a 10-year-old accidentally killed himself after imitating the video clip he had seen on television, the Houston Chronicle reported last week. The boy tied a slipknot around his neck while on a bunk bed on New Year's Eve, it said. His mother told police her son had watched a report on Saddam's death on the Spanish-language Telemundo news broadcast before the accident. In Algeria, a group of schoolchildren hanged a 12-year-old male classmate in a "game" imitating the execution two days after the execution. The incident took place in the village of Oued Rihou in the west of the North African country, l'Authentique newspaper reported. Also in Algeria, on January 3 a 35-year-old woman in the western coast town of Oran committed suicide by hurling herself from a window in her parents' third-floor apartment because she was "traumatised by images of the hanging", a family member said. She had been "depressed and hadn't eaten" since watching repeated TV footage of Saddam's gruesome execution, the relative said. In the week after Saddam's hanging, Algerian newspapers reported that several parents had named their children after the executed Iraqi leader.

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Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC "Rape and murder innocent Americans"? lol, did you mean to type Americans Shakka?

It was extreme sarcasm and Shaolin knew it. I got nuthin' but love for the man.

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Originally posted by Shakka It was extreme sarcasm and Shaolin knew it. I got nuthin' but love for the man.

EDIT: Oh wait, you mean Raegan

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z EDIT: Oh wait, you mean Raegan

Sure. Whatever floats your boat.

Haha!

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Originally posted by star-traveller Who cares now? The West (the UK and the US) is about to get a control on what was the real reason of this war.

Ya I know nooone cares and the real US operation 'Iraqi Rape' was successfull. And the real objective of war ie oil has been secured.

I just hope that Iraqies get their revenge one day. I also know that the world dosent care for US now too and I bet in an event of any another terrorist attack on US soil at the same scale of 9/11 their will be a hell lot of people rejoicing and celebrating it, hell lot of people which were consoling and were in greif with US earlier will not do so anymore.. and they will now say that 'yes they deserved it'.

World dosent care for US anymore too.

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