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Originally posted by E2EK1EL When I see an Apple product on ppl = Moronic dumb ass bitches who doesn't know anything about computers and assume it's all "click and drag"

LOL. Extremely funny and wrong statement, considering that here, in Silicon Valley, I see a lot of people, pioneers of high-tech, really smart guys, all using Apple Products.

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Originally posted by Durafei LOL. Extremely funny and wrong statement, considering that here, in Silicon Valley, I see a lot of people, pioneers of high-tech, really smart guys, all using Apple Products.

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Originally posted by Durafei LOL. Extremely funny and wrong statement, considering that here, in Silicon Valley, I see a lot of people, pioneers of high-tech, really smart guys, all using Apple Products.

This is true statement, working in IT industry I see more and more users are switching toward apple, I am considering switch for this year as well, (waiting for Leopard)

So how is the Mac OS better than XP or Linux?

What can it do that XP can't? Cause I can name so many things I can do on XP that you can't do on OSX.

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur So how is the Mac OS better than XP or Linux? What can it do that XP can't? Cause I can name so many things I can do on XP that you can't do on OSX.

Like hook up half the technology out up up to it?

I do admit though the OSX is more stable

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur What can it do that XP can't? Cause I can name so many things I can do on XP that you can't do on OSX.

Expect that to change in the next 5-10 years.

Historically, people were reluctant to buy Macs because there wasn't much software for it. Macs had very little market share and a result software vendors weren't writing software for it(because they wouldn't make money). (Sort of a Chicken and Egg problem: users didn't buy Macs because there was no software. Software vendors weren't writing software because there weren't enough users).

In all likelihood this will change for the following reasons:

1) Many apps are now Web Based, and so can run on Macs.
2) Essential non-web based apps such as browser, music player, video player, office are now available for Mac.

Note: 1 and 2 in itself covers about 90% of use cases for computers. It doesn't cover games, but with the popularity of XBOXes, PlayStations and Wii fewer and fewer people will buy computers to play games.

That's not all. There is more:
3) Mac is now based on Intel, and Apple has recently released BootCamp which allows you to boot Windows XP. Essentially that means that you can buy a Mac without any fear. After all, if there is an app that requires Windows, you can boot windows from that same Mac.

For all the above reasons, more and more people should start buying Macs. Therefore, software vendors will start writing apps for Macs. Therefore in the near future, there will be absolutely no reason to buy XP.

The phone looks PIMP...but way too expensive

looks nice, but way to much money at this time - when it's goes down in price it's still a maybe for me to get it, I have enough god damn phones!

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Originally posted by Durafei Expect that to change in the next 5-10 years. Historically, people were reluctant to buy Macs because there wasn't much software for it. Macs had very little market share and a result software vendors weren't writing software for it(because they wouldn't make money). (Sort of a Chicken and Egg problem: users didn't buy Macs because there was no software. Software vendors weren't writing software because there weren't enough users). In all likelihood this will change for the following reasons: 1) Many apps are now Web Based, and so can run on Macs. 2) Essential non-web based apps such as browser, music player, video player, office are now available for Mac. Note: 1 and 2 in itself covers about 90% of use cases for computers. It doesn't cover games, but with the popularity of XBOXes, PlayStations and Wii fewer and fewer people will buy computers to play games. That's not all. There is more: 3) Mac is now based on Intel, and Apple has recently released BootCamp which allows you to boot Windows XP. Essentially that means that you can buy a Mac without any fear. After all, if there is an app that requires Windows, you can boot windows from that same Mac. For all the above reasons, more and more people should start buying Macs. Therefore, software vendors will start writing apps for Macs. Therefore in the near future, there will be absolutely no reason to buy XP.

Okay, that's great, too bad the people you were talking about are using Macs today, not 5-10 years in the future. So essentially, you described a set of very smart people who for some reason decided to continue making life a pain the ass for them for another 5-10 years (got some masochistic people there over in Silicon Valley, eh?) I would also like to point out that those high-tech guys that you said were all using Macs wouldn't be using just browser and e-mail, unless by "high tech" you meant "high-paid" executives who just browse the web all day while listening to their iPod, and send out useless e-mail after useless e-mail.

But most importantly, you spent a great deal of time explaining to me how in 5 to 10 years Macs will finally catch up to PCs and how you now can run both a Mac and XP on the same machine (which people have been doing with 3-rd party apps for some time now), but didn't answer my original question:

"What can Macs do that PCs can't?" Cause see, I need a bigger reason to switch to Macs than just "oh well you can do everything you can on a PC on a Mac now" to actually switch. My PC can do everything a PC can do too, so why would I switch to Mac? Because everything wouldn't work how I'm used to, and I got sick of being able to right-click?

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur I would also like to point out that those high-tech guys that you said were all using Macs wouldn't be using just browser and e-mail, unless by "high tech" you meant "high-paid" executives who just browse the web all day while listening to their iPod, and send out useless e-mail after useless e-mail.

Nope. I'm not talking about executives. I'm talking about developers, yes developers who write software, browser the web, listen to music, etc. I'm talking about developers who got tired of how unstable and complicated Windows is.

BTW: Here is what hi-tech guys do with their computers (a little inside info, hehe)
1) Browser the web
2) Listen to music
3) Write useless emails
4) Watch videos
5) Write code
Note: I don't require Windows do do any of those things.

Now to your question: Why should you switch to Mac ?
I'm not convincing you to switch. I'm just saying that in likelihood Mac's market share will be much greater than it is right now for the reasons I described in my earlier post. People switch, and will continue switching because Mac is a better computer. It's beautiful, software works, doesn't crash, and Apple's marketing team is doing a good job as well.

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Originally posted by Durafei Nope. I'm not talking about executives. I'm talking about developers, yes developers who write software, browser the web, listen to music, etc. I'm talking about developers who got tired of how unstable and complicated Windows is. BTW: Here is what hi-tech guys do with their computers (a little inside info, hehe) 1) Browser the web 2) Listen to music 3) Write useless emails 4) Watch videos 5) Write code Note: I don't require Windows do do any of those things.

well anyone can use the same argument and say "i don't need a Mac to do any of those things", so your point is?

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Originally posted by FunkyCrew well anyone can use the same argument and say "i don't need a Mac to do any of those things", so your point is?

Read the last sentence of the first paragraph. A lot of people are tired of how unstable and complicated Windows is. That's why they switch.

u also cant forget that PC manufacturers will develope better software and hardware in the next 5-10 years. who knows, maybe MS will come out with a crash free OS in that kinda time.

also, if the mac does become more popular, people will make more viruses and spyware for mac. so the luxury of having a virus free and spywar free mac will be gone and it'll be at the same level as a pc.

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Originally posted by Durafei Read the last sentence of the first paragraph. A lot of people are tired of how unstable and complicated Windows is. That's why they switch.

I actually find windows very user friendly and my XP never crashes. If you maintain your computer properly there should be no issues. I am gonna have to agree with Cosmic, I am not going to simply change to Mac because it can do everything a PC can do. It would have to do alot more for me to want to invest that much money on one. XP works perfectly for me so I wouldn't see myself even considering changing(unless it was free of course) anytime soon.

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Originally posted by FunkyCrew well anyone can use the same argument and say "i don't need a Mac to do any of those things", so your point is?

wow, Kris way to come in with a good rebuttal. I agree with her.

Here's the tricky part with market share - if you have the majority of it, you can put out a shitty product and people will still buy it because of familiarity. And if you don't have the majority (like Apple, who has a very small market share), you have familiarity working AGAINST you, so you need to make sure your product is significantly better to start getting the market share back. Having a product that's just as good will not sway the market share your way as people will continue to buy what they've always bought. Look at Firefox - it was a gazillion times better than IE6, and it only managed to get 10% of the share before MS came out with IE7 that made the way for Firefox that much harder again. 10%, that's nothing. That's my point here - Mac needs an edge over Windows to start eating the market share back. What is that edge?

My XP at work is stable (unless the very code that we write here crashes it, lol, but Windows isn't to blame for that, it's the devs who watch videos instead of writing good code ), and I'm not sure how it's more complicated that OSX.

I remember actually giving OSX a try in one of our nifty Mac labs at UTM (which are empty most of the time, and the only classes held there are for social studies classes; all the comp sci courses use Linux over Mac, hmmmm). All I remember wanting was to kill an hour browsing the web, an doing some common non-thought involving tasks. My experience was that everything was counter-intuitive, and I was wishing I was back on Windows in 30 minutes, and pissed off at it for refusing to do what I wanted to in 45 minutes. I never lasted the full hour.

Out of curiosity, what do you use to code? I've tried many IDEs, but I am yet to find one that I like as much as Visual Studio.

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Originally posted by oldschool420 I actually find windows very user friendly and my XP never crashes. If you maintain your computer properly there should be no issues. I am gonna have to agree with Cosmic, I am not going to simply change to Mac because it can do everything a PC can do. It would have to do alot more for me to want to invest that much money on one. XP works perfectly for me so I wouldn't see myself even considering changing(unless it was free of course) anytime soon.

i agree with you here... i love my pc (well lappy in my case) and minor glitches the system throws at me are not worth it for me

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur all the comp sci courses use Linux over Mac, hmmmm).

yup so do comp sci majors at York and Seneca

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Originally posted by Matt you guys obviously need to watch the Keynote demo. The interface runs smooth as silk.

1) it was a video
2) wasn't from the iPhone
3) even if it was, the prototype can be tweeked

Until you see the demo running from the actual unit, your a fool to even believe it ... that applies to everything of everything.

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Out of curiosity, what do you use to code? I've tried many IDEs, but I am yet to find one that I like as much as Visual Studio.

I program in Java, so I use IntelliJ. Those who program in C++ typically use emacs and vim(we program on Linux).

BTW: Here is a good example of how Windows Vista is more complicated to use than OSX. Read this excellent blog post:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/11/21.html

here's the truth though imo:
as much as some people DONT want the iphone due to poor battery life, price, etc. this iPhone puts EVERY mobile phone on the market to shame.

I dont want this iPhone, but I am definitely looking froward to their next generations.

Also I want to add, not trying to sound like an Apple fan boy though I love their products not for the branding, but for what they are.

Apple has created revolutionary products. Ipods (even though i dislike most of them and dont own one) should be grouped with products such as Silicon, Asprin, CDs, etc. Products that have revolutionized an entire industry.

From what i can see, the iPhone will do it again. It's a nice harmony between function and design. The technology used in it is nothing new. What Apple has created though, with their solid business foundations of making USER FRIENDLY products, is what makes them revolutionary.

There are tons of techie guys out there who hack firmware, punches in special codes to get menus on their cell phones and etc. but Apple caters to the people who want to press 1 button to get calculator, press 2 buttons to make a call. Most consumers never really know why they like the iPod so much, but if you break it down, it's because the fact they dont have to think about it. It just works.

The reason behind why I actually put some thought into this post is because I think (no im not brainwashed, i dont even own any Apple products) Apple is the pinnacle of the harmony of technology and consumers. It gives everything the consumer wants and nothing of what consumers dont want. Other smartphone companies (take this industry as an example since we're talking iPhones) slap in more memory, more expandable slots, faster chips, and more into their current and future products. But what does that technology really mean to the consumer? Do people really use expandable memory slots or do they just leave a memory chip in there forever? Does faster CPU really affect the utility of the phone? This is where Apple stands out. They put practical technology to use without the technical data people dont care about.

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Originally posted by Durafei It's beautiful, software works, doesn't crash, and Apple's marketing team is doing a good job as well.

I would argue that the only reason Apple is doing well is due to their marketing team. I think Vista looks nicer, and I can't recall the last time I had something other than beta software crash on me. Mind you, the upkeep and maintenance of my system is probably far beyond that of the average user.


Oh yeah, Cisco Systems is suing Apple over the iPhone name, since apparently Apple jumped the gun regarding the copyright deal

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 I would argue that the only reason Apple is doing well is due to their marketing team.

Only marketing team, you do realize marketing is a HUGE part of any company right? and no, marketing does not mean advertising.

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Originally posted by Durafei

What are you talking about? The Macs crashes too ... the infamouse beachball of death!

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Originally posted by illestofdananas anybody know much about the sony ericsson p990? kinda horny for one i know this is an apple thread but its quickly becoming a general pda/phone discussion

I had a p910 and enjoyed it, but I prefer Windows Mobile over Symbian on the p990 (I'm using WM5 now).

This is turning into an Apple bashing thread, and though I won't stick up for everything Apple does, I will stick up for them. I switched to a MacBook after using Windows since Windows 95 (OS/2 Warp when it was around). I love OSX and I wouldn't switch back. I now wonder why I didn't switch sooner.

To each their own, I suppose. I tried using OSX for a few months, forcing myself to learn it, and I couldn't deal with it on a day to day basis. Coming from all Windows my whole life, OSX is just very counter-intuitive for me.

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