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-- Allen & Heath announces new 2007 DJ software called "Xone Mixed In Key"
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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I don't care if you're using software or not. What I do care about, though, is spam. Which is what this thread is.

and you keep bumping it to the top

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Originally posted by sleepydragon and you keep bumping it to the top

It was already on top, sweetie.

obviously if you keep putting it there

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Originally posted by starboy Oh god not this useless argument again so i guess marcus shultz, armin, blah bla blah are tone def as well since they tag their cd's with keys and bpm's. Why waste precious time "keying" with your ears when you can know instantly by looking down at your cd's.

yea they may be tone def for all we know. if they need the extra help by tagging cds then so be it. i personally don't need to. i key by ear in seconds.

my point was not about tagging cds starkid. my point was that a good dj with a good ear doesn't need software to key tracks for them.

oh btw good djs like digweed, lawler and tenaglia don't put the key on their tracks. to each their own.

Ok, i will give you a list of tracks with samples. I would like you to have a listen, and determine their keys with your ears alone.. shouldn't be a problem for you, you key by your ears in seconds.

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Originally posted by starboy Ok, i will give you a list of tracks with samples. I would like you to have a listen, and determine their keys with your ears alone.. shouldn't be a problem for you, you key by your ears in seconds.

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Originally posted by starboy Ok, i will give you a list of tracks with samples. I would like you to have a listen, and determine their keys with your ears alone.. shouldn't be a problem for you, you key by your ears in seconds.

you don't understand what i'm saying.
for instance. a dj should be able to play a track and then throw on any other track in their box a tell whether the mix is in key. they may not know what key but just that it is in key.

as for me. i know my tracks well enough to play a track and pick out the next track in seconds because i know it will be in key based on memeory.

and yes i can key in seconds. i have perfect pitch. although i don't use it for djing.

I know exactly what your saying, you cue up and think you know if the keys are compatable or not... ive heard it all before, and usually those are the types that give out promos which make your ears bleed.. but they are PIMPS! cuz they don't need to key their stuff yo.

Hooj, you're one of the lucky few who has perfect pitch. Most people don't have that ability.

For example, when I was keying tunes manually, I had my dad helping me out. It was faster for one person to play the piano and for another person to write down the results.

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Originally posted by starboy I know exactly what your saying, you cue up and think you know if the keys are compatable or not... ive heard it all before, and usually those are the types that give out promos which make your ears bleed.. but they are PIMPS! cuz they don't need to key their stuff yo.

wow what an idiot.
now you claim that any dj that can key by ear is shit.
whatever. i guess 18 years of playing music, 7 years of djing and current shows in LA and Hollywood plus a residency is nothing.
its all good man. i know you may not like the fact that you have to try so hard to key tunes, but don't hate on us that can do it off the bat.
i'm sorry for having good ears.
done

quote:

Originally posted by nennon Hooj, you're one of the lucky few who has perfect pitch. Most people don't have that ability. For example, when I was keying tunes manually, I had my dad helping me out. It was faster for one person to play the piano and for another person to write down the results.

You see this is what i don't like having to do, its nice to have programs do it for you. If mixmeister starts screwing up and i notice that its innacurate then i would definatley get this, but it seems the free software works just fine for me.

And to huge 1.. just relax, no need to list your crudentials, you are a keying machine, ill let you know if mixmeister is off, we can use your ears

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Originally posted by hooj1 ummmm.....how about just use your ears. sorry but i have to say if you can't mix in key with your ears you are most likely tone def. if two songs sound like shite together they're out of key. if they sound good they're in key. simple/ and yes, i am classicly trained. but before i knew what a note or key was i could tell which don't go togther well. its all in the ears. some have it some don't.

I guess I'm on the fence now in this keying debate

I disagree with both of you. I think alot of the times you dont have to key tracks, and you can feel out a set with your ears, or just by memory. Sometimes its possible to make two tracks that are not in key work anyway, and sometimes on glitchier tech/minimal its not a big concern in the first place.


But for DJs who take alot of music with them, it can be helpfull and imo theres nothing wrong with writing down the keys of your tracks, and trying to get the keys for as much of your record bag as possible. Ferry does it, alot of guys do, it helps them cut down on their decision time. Another tool.

I dont claim perfect pitch or amazing ears, but I can usually tell pretty quick if a mix is going to be sour, or if theres a bad clash. I can be bothered to sit there and key all my tunes using a program, and re-tag my CD case...so for now I'm not keying tracks. I imagine that in the future when my collection gets really big, I'll probably do it when I re-burn and re-tag all my CD case, along with bpm, length etc. Just some extra tools to use.

I usually stick to my gut instincts. I don't find the keys to my tracks or anything, but if I have any second guesses about the track, then its probably not gonna sound right being mixed in. Just go with your gut feeling. Is basically what I'm. Saying.

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Originally posted by Clovis I guess I'm on the fence now in this keying debate I disagree with both of you. I think alot of the times you dont have to key tracks, and you can feel out a set with your ears, or just by memory. Sometimes its possible to make two tracks that are not in key work anyway, and sometimes on glitchier tech/minimal its not a big concern in the first place.

this is pretty much what i'm saying. i don't key my stuff because i know what my tracks sound/feel like.

i really never use music therory or perfect pitch for djing. if you need list the key of all your tracks thats fine. i just feel its not needed.

Well you baisically said in the beggining that anyone who cant mix in key with their ears is tone deaf, and I've heard starboy say that anyone who doesnt key their tracks is a shit DJ...so I'm sort of down for the middle ground

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Originally posted by Clovis Well you baisically said in the beggining that anyone who cant mix in key with their ears is tone deaf, and I've heard starboy say that anyone who doesnt key their tracks is a shit DJ...so I'm sort of down for the middle ground

they are two stupid statements. i have some of my tracks in key when mixing but then when it gets a bit too predictable i drop a track that isnt in key it doesnt sound like shit but it breaks up the predictablility.

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Originally posted by hooj1 you don't understand what i'm saying. for instance. a dj should be able to play a track and then throw on any other track in their box a tell whether the mix is in key. they may not know what key but just that it is in key. as for me. i know my tracks well enough to play a track and pick out the next track in seconds because i know it will be in key based on memeory.

+1, that's the only way to go. i think this mixed in key shit is just another way to automate the dj process. we might as well just have a computer do it.

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Originally posted by dj_kane they are two stupid statements. i have some of my tracks in key when mixing but then when it gets a bit too predictable i drop a track that isnt in key it doesnt sound like shit but it breaks up the predictablility.

why is my statement about being tone def stupid? the definition of tone-def is : insensitive to differences in musical pitch.

so a dj who can't mix in key by ear is more than likely tone def by definition.

the basics of tonal theory are quite easy to learn. you can learn how to key a track if you have at least one ear and are willing to spend a few minutes reading the basics.

maybe keying things with your ears isn't such a bad idea, sure it takes more time, but guess what, your ears are going to get extremely sensitive, and that's kind of important when you're in a field like music

I'd just like to add that for years people werem't mixing in key and no one thought anything off it.

It seems to be being taken too seriously!!

Jarv

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Originally posted by hooj1 why is my statement about being tone def stupid? the definition of tone-def is : insensitive to differences in musical pitch. so a dj who can't mix in key by ear is more than likely tone def by definition.

its stupid because your saying you should no what track goes with which as soon as you put it on but why waste time putting on a track and finding it doesnt go and having to change it when you can just key your tracks with software and your own knowledge writr it on the sleeve and save time and stupidity to prove a point that your are not tone deaf.

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I'd just like to add that for years people werem't mixing in key and no one thought anything off it.

Also for years no one knew smoking caused cancer... what's your point?
My point is that harmonic mixing is an obvious improvement. After mixing harmonically it is almost painful to mix without keys in mind.

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Originally posted by nefardec Also for years no one knew smoking caused cancer... what's your point? My point is that harmonic mixing is an obvious improvement. After mixing harmonically it is almost painful to mix without keys in mind.

Just because my post came after yours doesn't mean it was specifically in response to your post. I didn't need your point clarifying - I understood what you were trying to say the first time you posted it. And if i didn't I could have re-read it.....

Smoking - Cancer
Keyed mixing - Non keyed mixing.

Not really any comparison. Not really sure why you used this example.....

My point, if it needs re-iterating, is that mixes from yesteryear still sounded good, despite the fact that they weren't mixed in key. If you want it spelled out: You don't have to mix in key to mix well.

I hope you see the point this time.

Jarv

Double post - deleted

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as authoritative earlier,

I agree that harmonic mixing is taken too seriously as far as people think that if they are mixing harmonically that it necessarily equals 'good mixing'

what made the earlier mixing good that you are referencing is the sensitivity to details in the tracks and careful matching of music as a feeling and as a sound and not as a theory

that still holds a critical place in good mixing, but I think harmonic mixing, not necessarily as in mixing in the same key or in perfect fifths, but rather what I want to call an active awareness of pitch, interval, and harmonic progression can make mixing very sophisticated.

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