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-- gay adoption [debate]
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Originally posted by weymouth I'm for tougher adoption screening all around, no matter if the couple is homosexual, heterosexual, or someone single.

I don't know what to say about this one. I've heard of great people getting turned down on tiny technicalities, and horrible people being approved. Maybe just some more consistancy.

quote:

Originally posted by weymouth I also believe that being a parent is more of a responsibility than being married and if a state stops homosexuals from marrying it makes sense they shouldn't be allowed to adopt.

That's not the reason they don't legalize gay marriage.

Correct. The reasons are ignorance and religious nonsense.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Correct. The reasons are ignorance and religious nonsense.

I wouldn't say ignorance. The studies out on whether homosexuality is genetic or adaptive are not done yet, at least not to the point where one can definitively say that it is the product of one or the other. Once they are, then one side won't have a leg to stand on anymore, whichever side that winds up being. From what I've read so far, though, that side looks to be the side of those who oppose gay marriage. Like I said, though, it's not conclusive yet (at least not consistently enough from study to study...there are some on each side that claim to be absolute, but are not).

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Originally posted by Plump Funk Gay couples go through tough and rough procedures just to get approved, and being constantly evaluated to see if they're fit to raise a child, putting that much effort and time shows to me they really want a child and know what they are getting into. It takes months even years for that to happen unlike straight couples where a five minute lay would do the job then call it a mistake, with gay couples it�s never a mistake they know fully well what they're getting into. I also believe if more Gay couples adopt kids it would be a far more tolerant society in the future.

agreed 100%

with each generation, western society opens up more and more. allowing gay couples to adopt will further this, which is a good thing. fighting against legislation such as this promotes the homophobic tendencies which show up in our children in the playgrounds. sooner we accept, the sooner the children won't even consider this to be an issue to tease about

in the US about half of marriages end in divorce. teenage single mothers are a norm. parents are rarely around to be parents. if you have 2 people seriously committed to having and raising a child (which the adoption process would help determine) then i'd be more inclined to have them raise a child then all the fucking horrible hetero parents out there



plus, other countries are able to make the move and it seems to be working there

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Originally posted by Inconspicuous I wouldn't say ignorance. The studies out on whether homosexuality is genetic or adaptive are not done yet, at least not to the point where one can definitively say that it is the product of one or the other. Once they are, then one side won't have a leg to stand on anymore, whichever side that winds up being. From what I've read so far, though, that side looks to be the side of those who oppose gay marriage. Like I said, though, it's not conclusive yet (at least not consistently enough from study to study...there are some on each side that claim to be absolute, but are not).

Whether homosexuality is genetic or natal or environmental or whatever has nothing at all to do with whether homosexuality and homosexual marriage are ethical. The arguments that they are unethical are asinine without exception, and almost all inspired by the scrawlings of certain ancient desert tribes.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The arguments that they are unethical are asinine without exception, and almost all inspired by the scrawlings of certain ancient desert tribes.

Well-put

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Whether homosexuality is genetic or natal or environmental or whatever has nothing at all to do with whether homosexuality and homosexual marriage are ethical. The arguments that they are unethical are asinine without exception, and almost all inspired by the scrawlings of certain ancient desert tribes.

lol, but:

It's not about ethical vs. unethical.

Whether you agree or disagree for whatever religious reasons or otherwise, if it is proven to be determined at birth, end of argument. At that point, you cannot sanely be against it. However, if it's proven otherwise, the argument will still continue. I suppose I phrased that 2nd part poorly.

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Whether you agree or disagree for whatever religious reasons or otherwise, if it is proven to be determined at birth, end of argument. At that point, you cannot sanely be against it.

This is incorrect. Poor development of some parts of the brain, which may be due to either genes or natal environment, may predispose people to violence or theft or other impulsive actions. The fact that some people may commit such acts partly because of genetic factors does not mean that we should stop jailing people for them or trying to prevent them. There are good reasons to want to keep such people in places where they can't harm others.

But the thing about homosexuality and homosexual marriage is that they harm nobody* and thus should be permitted, whether they are "genetic" or not.

* Unless you are one of those idiots who thinks that being gay "harms a person's soul" or somesuch. But the law deals with harm to bodies and property, not to souls, so there are still no grounds for legal action.

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan My stance is they shouldn't be aloud to adopt children. A child needs a Mother and Father. Not two Fathers and not two Mothers. A child adopted by a same sex marriage will be ridiculed and bullied in school. It's unfair on the kid at the end of the day.

So single parents shouldnt be allowed to adopt?

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Originally posted by Sunsnail So single parents shouldnt be allowed to adopt?

Since were on topic, are you & Eros gonna adopt.?

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles This is incorrect. Poor development of some parts of the brain, which may be due to either genes or natal environment, may predispose people to violence or theft or other impulsive actions. The fact that some people may commit such acts partly because of genetic factors does not mean that we should stop jailing people for them or trying to prevent them. There are good reasons to want to keep such people in places where they can't harm others. But the thing about homosexuality and homosexual marriage is that they harm nobody* and thus should be permitted, whether they are "genetic" or not. * Unless you are one of those idiots who thinks that being gay "harms a person's soul" or somesuch. But the law deals with harm to bodies and property, not to souls, so there are still no grounds for legal action.

I'm not disagreeing with you. All I'm saying is that, at the moment, those against it take that stance based on the fact that, even though it does not harm others, it's a choice they make. If it doesn't harm anyone and is not a choice one makes, it would be tantamount to banning all black people from marrying--that's all I'm saying.

yea after i posted that post about the kids being made fun of for having gay parents, i thought to myself, "oh for crying out loud, kids make fun of EVERYTHING these days".

so yea, it would just make the kids stronger in the end and more worldly adults. whatever...i dont care if fags and dykes wanna adopt. as long as the kid is loved for and properly taken care of.

quote:

Originally posted by Inconspicuous Whether you agree or disagree for whatever religious reasons or otherwise, if it is proven to be determined at birth, end of argument. At that point, you cannot sanely be against it. However, if it's proven otherwise, the argument will still continue. I suppose I phrased that 2nd part poorly.

You are speaking far too hypothetically here. Regardless of what people personally believe to be the 'cause' of homosexuality (if there even is one), there will never be a true consensus and the cause will still be argued. Nothing is ever truly 'proven' scientifically, save for some very universal laws (and even those are still challenged at times) and would never be wholly accepted by any community or democratic Government as gospel. In the future, there may be evidence which supports one side or the other far more drastically than what current theories indicate, but I promise you that it will still be an issue in question with people - it's one of those questions that may never be resolved in any foreseeable future because of its scope and the variables which constitute such a status which has been so deeply ingrained into the human condition for as far back as our recorded history goes.

Just because you don't like the opposite sex, you shouldn't be allowed to a adopt? That's wrong.

I agree with all who stated that if there are 2 willing committed people wanting to adopt and raise a child knowing that this child will grow up with 2 loving parents ( regardless of their sex ) than they should be able to adopt. Kids should have 2 loving parents, but sometimes, actually most of the time, that doesn't happen. I was raised by one a parent my whole life, yes it would have been complete with both but it didn't happen and I still got all the love I wanted and needed.

You shouldn't be able to stop two loving people from adopting just because one is not male or female, that's stupidness. And for the ones who think that the child will be emotionally fucked, or will grow up to be "weird", that's a stereo type, plain and simple. Gay couples usually incorporate a male figure if the couple is female, or a female if the couple is both male just so the kid has another figure in his or her life.

Re: gay adoption [debate]

quote:

Originally posted by Ian ...

I haven't read the whole thread...just replying to the threadstarter.

Adoption is a legal issue, not a religious one...and is authorized/regulated BY THE STATE, not the Church.

The Church may run an adoption agency, but they still have to comply with the LAW and have the state approve/register the adoption, correct?

Church and state are separate and while I *fully* agree that no religious institution ought to be forced to perform gay marriages, for example, if the Church is engaged in adoption, a LEGAL matter, then they ought to have to comply with the LAW.

If the LAW provides that gays may adopt, then a Catholic agency ought not be able to refuse to place a child with a gay couple.

Having said that, I'm not sure why a gay couple would go through a Catholic agency when they could instead go through a non-religious one (?). I would also be supportive of said "opt-out" clause as a reasonable compromise, ASSUMING that there are other comparable agency options available to gay couples.

FWIW, *long* before gay marriage was legal here, state-run agencies, like Children's Aid, have been fascilitating gay adoption. They have had the sense to recognize that the fitness of parents, the availability of a loving, supportive, healthy home is not tied to the sexuality of the parents.

I think the Church is going to lose this one...

Re: Re: gay adoption [debate]

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT FWIW, *long* before gay marriage was legal here, state-run agencies, like Children's Aid, have been fascilitating gay adoption. They have had the sense to recognize that the fitness of parents, the availability of a loving, supportive, healthy home is not tied to the sexuality of the parents.

Well, you'd sort of hope that was the issue of first concern for them all along, that kids get put somewhere they'll be looked after best more than anything else. All's said and done it's also important to have a mix of both sexes in a childs upbringing, even if it's just a male/female relative that functions as an adult role model of sorts. The fact other kids will tease them I don't really think is going to be too much of an issue in most western countries, because kids tease each other over anything and a bit of thick skin never hurt anyone on later in life learning to deal with conflict at some point rather than being some kind of emotional coward or cripple.

Fuck that! They don't deserve kids. If they cant make one they souldnt have one.


To the boners that will contradict me im not talking about a MOTHER and FATHER that can't produce a baby cause medical issues. I'm talking about queers, obviously.

I see.

Would you like to support your stupid opinions?

quote:

Originally posted by gwrmarines Fuck that! They don't deserve kids. If they cant make one they souldnt have one. To the boners that will contradict me im not talking about a MOTHER and FATHER that can't produce a baby cause medical issues. I'm talking about queers, obviously.

Holy shit, no wonder you joined the marines.

quote:

Originally posted by gwrmarines Fuck that! They don't deserve kids. If they cant make one they souldnt have one. To the boners that will contradict me im not talking about a MOTHER and FATHER that can't produce a baby cause medical issues. I'm talking about queers, obviously.

Hell no. being gay is a sin why should they get special privilages.having children is a gift from god.thats why it takes a man and a woman to have children and only a man and a woman can have children.

quote:

Originally posted by gwrmarines Fuck that! They don't deserve kids. If they cant make one they souldnt have one. To the boners that will contradict me im not talking about a MOTHER and FATHER that can't produce a baby cause medical issues. I'm talking about queers, obviously.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?

So you're saying the fact they don't like women, and won't have babies with them, means that they don't deserve to have a family of their own?? So wrrrrrrrrrrrrooooong!!! My respect meter for you just dropped 2 points. j-k, but seriously...You can't deny kids to those that " aren't able to make one" They are fully capable of making one, just not with one another.



clubamerica, do us a favor and don't type.... ever. Not that you know how to anyway

GAH, some of the posts in here make me want to fucking punch someone. The intolerance and ignorance is ridiculous!

Anyway, if there is someone, ANYONE, who is fit to be a parent, and wants to adopt a child that has no home, or family... I say all the power to them!

I also think that single people should be allowed to adopt as well!

They are fully capable of making one,just not with one another. im sorry miss french toast this is the most ignorant comment u have made to date.no shit offcourse they cant have children with one another.

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Originally posted by clubamerica They are fully capable of making one,just not with one another. im sorry miss french toast this is the most ignorant comment u have made to date.no shit offcourse they cant have children with one another.

How was it ignorant?

Truth = ignorance? Do us a favor and follow Googooly when he jumps off the bridge, ok? Thanks.

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