TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- How to enforce democracy in Russia?
Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I agree, but I still take offense to your go at students being one myself.

Just like I dont really appreciate being lumped in with criminals, gamblers, frauds and extortionists because I want to work harder, raise my standard of living to something above working class. You probably dont really want to be lumped in with ignorant, un-worldly idealists who think that voting for a certain party is going to help secure their futures.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Iraq... They havent had to fight for democracy,it simply landed on their doorstep, busted the place up,

Wish you'd been in charge! Couldn't agree more!

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Just like I dont really appreciate being lumped in with criminals, gamblers, frauds and extortionists because I want to work harder, raise my standard of living to something above working class. You probably dont really want to be lumped in with ignorant, un-worldly idealists who think that voting for a certain party is going to help secure their futures.

Sorry but I'm not sure I saw anyone lumping you in with those things.

Hah, hell no I wouldnt want to be responsible for that...

But its basically what happens when something happens 'immediately' rather than a gradual process of having the population aclimatise and orient themselves in a society which takes time and hard work.
Russia may be 'ugly' now, but its a far preferable solution than the 'instant' fix for problems like Iraq... which somehow still sort of counts as a democracy even though it came by it having been turned on its ear.

-just to clarify, there are some extremely brave people in Iraq who turned up in droves despite the threat of being blown to pieces, murdered and shot, just to vote. Its the seedy underbelly thats still using it mostly as an excuse to found their own hatred based, despotic power bases that are the real problem
If it was up to me, I would have not sent in an army, beyond one that would have secured the polling booths and allowed people to either vote for Saddam or someone else freely. Probably just as much work but at least they would have had democracy as a civilised manner instead of a general issue jackboot up their arses.

I think one major thing people always overlook is that a constitution is really just a piece of paper.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Sorry but I'm not sure I saw anyone lumping you in with those things.

Its pretty damn clear here what he thinks of anyone that isnt 'working class'

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium I know how to handle money. I dont need a lesson, I've seen how people take care of their money and what they are willing to do for money, all the gambling addicts, cards for money addicts, etc. etc. I stay away from people who are too much of money. They love their money so much, they like it more than you. They are willing to do crazy things for more of it. Thats some politicians and powerful corporate oligarchs for ya!

Sure, I do it for myself and ultimately a way of securing a future for any of my offspring along the way in their future so they have their clean water, food and a house over their head. But I'm really not snapping anyones necks in the process.
Why?
Because no one else is going to look after my ass and I'm certainly not looking to the state safety nets to secure my future.

I don't see it, but you're entitled to your own opinion. You don't have to be working class to know that you shouldn't love money too much.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Yes, I found it a bit offensive too. Lilith is all about the money, hehe ;-) I'll have enough money, one way or another. I have lived on 850 dollars a month the first six months when I had to move out of my parents house and I did fine (inlc. rent: $350, bills/transit: $120). I know how to handle money. I dont need a lesson, I've seen how people take care of their money and what they are willing to do for money, all the gambling addicts, cards for money addicts, etc. etc. I stay away from people who are too much of money. They love their money so much, they like it more than you. They are willing to do crazy things for more of it. Thats some politicians and powerful corporate oligarchs for ya! Money, or theft of it, has murdered so many people. So many children die around the world, so many people lose their farms, homes, lives because others want to make a profit. Fuck money. There's enough money (plus lots of leftover) to provide EVERYONE with enough water and food to survive. The 1% richest people have more than 80% of the poorest. All they do is keep it to themselves. YAY, GO MONEY!!!! America's yearly military budget alone is enough to feed every single hungry person for the whole year.

Remember though, money itself is not evil, it's the LOVE of money that's evil

Money isn't all bad, it's just better when you have more than not enough.
If money wasn't all that important, try not paying your tuition or your rent.
You'll soon learn how important it is

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I don't see it, but you're entitled to your own opinion. You don't have to be working class to know that you shouldn't love money too much.

How much simpler can I make it?

You do not invest in your country, you do not work for you country to make it a better place at even the simplest, most fundamental level of the family unit and individual.

Then the place will go to hell

Especially if you dont bother, sit idly here whinning about it, running away to another country and looking to the fedral government or, outside forces to put something in place, then youre a charity basket case and will get annexed, either economically like in Russia where the disparity between have/have not is so great it boggles, or in Iraq where its a violent cesspit because someone else came in to do the job.

If you trust your government to look after your personal best interests, youre blind.
If you trust in an ideal like democracy to fix everything, then youre going to wear it in the face.

I don't see why you go off on tangents and read into things that aren't there. All I'm saying is that I agree with you about everything I just took slight offense to your go at university students. It's OK but I don't understand what prompted this response. You're preaching to the choir.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild It's OK but I don't understand what prompted this response.

That's because I'm not addressing you in the body of what I've written.
I'm just showing the hypocrisy of two ex-pats coming here after they've left their country and having the nerve to complain how busted it is, wheres the help and then, then deciding to take shots at outsiders for merely suggesting what the root cause of the problem is.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I think one major thing people always overlook is that a constitution is really just a piece of paper.

what about your Constitution? does it hold any value to you?

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith That's because I'm not addressing you in the body of what I've written. I'm just showing the hypocrisy of two ex-pats coming here after they've left their country and having the nerve to complain how busted it is, wheres the help and then, then deciding to take shots at outsiders for merely suggesting what the root cause of the problem is.

Oh yea people will definitely cut into you for offering soltions for their country in a situation like that. I do unerstand that.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo what about your Constitution? does it hold any value to you?

Yes it does but that piece of paper isn't going to jump up and defend my rights or physically force the president to uphold it.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Yes it does but that piece of paper isn't going to jump up and defend my rights or physically force the president to uphold it.

your right, the piece of paper won't but it's value will.

it's called seeing a forest through the trees.


EDIT> the Contsitution was written on parchment not paper BTW

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo your right, the piece of paper won't but it's value will. it's called seeing a forest through the trees.

LOL what a bunch of hot air. What value is there if nobody stands up for it? And BTW I'm not talking specifically about the my country's constitution. I'm talking about constitutions in general so that parchment bit and shove it.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Oh yea people will definitely cut into you for offering soltions for their country in a situation like that. I do unerstand that.

I'll quite happily take shots at anyone else too, quite a lot of what I wrote is applicable to the US in some way or another.
You've been living in the superpower dreamland for a couple of generations and its making the current lot very 'sluggish' when it comes to sticking up for themselves or their rights to defend that constitution.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild LOL what a bunch of hot air. What value is there if nobody stands up for it? And BTW I'm not talking specifically about the my country's constitution. I'm talking about constitutions in general so that parchment bit and shove it.

your welcome.

another concept that value tends to depend on is time.

is that concept familiar to you?

More hot air?

quote:

Originally posted by Zild More hot air?

k bye.

Seriously you're making up some stupid one liners in an attempt to belittle my intelligence. All I'm saying is that constitutions in general are just pieces of paper and they mean nothing without people defending and supporting them and you're out here throwing out childish non sequiturs. I hope you put me on ignore because you aren't privileged enough to read what I type.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Seriously you're making up some stupid one liners in an attempt to belittle my intelligence.

so you and i agree that constitutions require a sense of value to be effective and that given time, among other things, that value can be sustained?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo so you and i agree that constitutions require a sense of value to be effective and that given time, among other things, that value can be sustained?

I don't think that you only need time for the value to be sustained. Or that it is really much of a factor in time this will all pass and there will be no value in any current constitution.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I don't think that you only need time for the value to be sustained.

of course not. thats why i said "among other things". however, time is essential. we tend to forget that in our haste as a society that wants everything RIGHT NOW!

quote:

Or that it is really much of a factor in time this will all pass and there will be no value in any current constitution.

honestly? that all depends on it's value

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo EDIT> the Contsitution was written on parchment not paper BTW

Hemp parchment to boot, how's that for reefer madness irony?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.