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10,000square miles is a lot...

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Originally posted by montie Yeah it pisses me off so much how we are so dependant on coal power. Its an antiquated power source and it puts massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere which contributes to global warming. It would be great if we could use solar power and wind power, and I would prefer that, but I would be alot happier if we could atleast use more nuclear power over coal power. Its much cleaner and provides more energy. People are just scared, although it is perfectly safe when properly maintained. But we have soooooooooo much coal and the coal companies (and railroad companies) are blocking anything from happening. Also I think the economy of states like west virginia, oregon and wyoming are completly dependant on coal (I could be wrong though).

for a while it was because coal power was the cheapest and most abundant. that's not the case anymore as photovoltaics are about the same cost now. hell even if you wanted to continue using coal, there's a new technology called coal gassification that is virtually pollution-free. still, texas builds them coal-burning plants...

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Originally posted by Sunsnail 10,000square miles is a lot...

yes, but such a grid would run EVERY CITY from los angeles to new york, chicago to miami... all on the sun's light... free energy! and that is not to say it has to be a 10k sq mi grid, that's just an example. just like we don't have to fill all of north and south dakota with wind turbines, they can be scattered across the pacific, atlantic, gulf coast, south and midwest. a single wind turbine can run 700 homes.

You're telling me solar is as cheap as coal?

here's a perfect example... the fedex distribution center here in oakland is covered in photovoltaic panels and runs 80% of its power off the sun. during peak hours it can sell energy back to the utility company. every household has enough surface area on its roof to be run on the sun's light...



http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/...18/daily12.html

Re: Re: Re: Exxon Posts Record Annual Profit

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Originally posted by Marc Summers 2005 and 2006 both had record-breaking quarterly earnings, and high gas prices. Shoo! Back to the rock you crawled out from under! Did you fucking forget that we were paying upwards of 3.00 per gallon gas last year? How can you be so dense? We are hurting, and they are profiting? That's greed... And that's what's real. Update: I've been getting the run-around from Edison Township.

You're commenting on accounting figures, but you clearly have no grasp of accounting. Stop posting ignorant rants.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail You're telling me solar is as cheap as coal?

just about there. if you buy a solar power system for your house, it will pay for itself in 5 years. there is a company here in redwood city that is using composite photovoltaics that are cheaper than silicon-based panels, they've developed a saran-wrap-like film that works just the same. right now they are researching photovoltaic paint that can be applied to windows to run the energy needs of skyscrapers.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Exxon Posts Record Annual Profit

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Originally posted by Inconspicuous You're commenting on accounting figures, but you clearly have no grasp of accounting. Stop posting ignorant rants.

You're right, I guess I'll shut up and continue to take it, because that's not ignorant.

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Originally posted by lex400sc here's a perfect example... the fedex distribution center here in oakland is covered in photovoltaic panels and runs 80% of its power off the sun. during peak hours it can sell energy back to the utility company. every household has enough surface area on its roof to be run on the sun's light...

I've been trying to convince my mom to invest in solar panels for years! Every year she says, "I'll wait for the technology to get better".

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Originally posted by Marc Summers I've been trying to convince my mom to invest in solar panels for years! Every year she says, "I'll wait for the technology to get better".

Well, it is true. Every year its decreasing in price by a pretty substantial amount.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Exxon Posts Record Annual Profit

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Originally posted by Marc Summers You're right, I guess I'll shut up and continue to take it, because that's not ignorant.

Or you could look into WHY they're posting record profits, and you'd realize that oil companies use FIFO accounting, which causes profit numbers to be highly misleading, as profits are reported based on the cost of the oldest barrel of oil vs. the most recent sale. Most companies use LIFO accounting, where profits are measured by the current costs vs. the current revenue per item.

It has nothing to do with politics or corruption or whatever other uninformed spin you want to try & put on it. Either know what you're talking about, or don't expect people to take you seriously.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail Well, it is true. Every year its decreasing in price by a pretty substantial amount.

Yes, but the way mom mom is saying it sounds like, "I'm not going to buy a computer until the technology gets better". It's ridiculous.

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Originally posted by Marc Summers I've been trying to convince my mom to invest in solar panels for years! Every year she says, "I'll wait for the technology to get better".

the sooner she does it, the sooner her house can start making money for her. if you think about it, the house is empty most of the day meaning the power generating turns back your meter until the power company starts buying off you. farmers in the midwest have started doing this with wind power. they see it as another 'crop' having wind turbines in their fields

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Exxon Posts Record Annual Profit

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Originally posted by Inconspicuous Or you could look into WHY they're posting record profits, and you'd realize that oil companies use FIFO accounting, which causes profit numbers to be highly misleading, as profits are reported based on the cost of the oldest barrel of oil vs. the most recent sale. Most companies use LIFO accounting, where profits are measured by the current costs vs. the current revenue per item. It has nothing to do with politics or corruption or whatever other uninformed spin you want to try & put on it. Either know what you're talking about, or don't expect people to take you seriously.

3.00 a gallon and they get record profits. You can throw all of the economic mumbo jumbo you want, it still doesn't excuse the fact that the ENTIRE WORLD got raped with oil prices, and the oil companies are swimming in a golden swimming pool filled with beluga caviar.

Seriously, there is no excuse, so stop arguing, it's time to act.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Exxon Posts Record Annual Profit

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Originally posted by Marc Summers 3.00 a gallon and they get record profits. You can throw all of the economic mumbo jumbo you want, it still doesn't excuse the fact that the ENTIRE WORLD got raped with oil prices, and the oil companies are swimming in a golden swimming pool filled with beluga caviar. Seriously, there is no excuse, so stop arguing, it's time to act.

You're talking about profits--an economic figure--yet you're saying "hey, let's just ignore economics, 'cuz I'm pissed." If you don't want to understand why it's happening, and all you really want is to be able to angry at some corporation, fine. I'm not going to try & stop you. But at least call it what it is--mindless, aimless, ignorant anger born out of a frustration of not being able to comprehend or understand what's going on.

Take it away...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Exxon Posts Record Annual Profit

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Originally posted by Marc Summers the oil companies are swimming in a golden swimming pool filled with beluga caviar.

By the way, the reason I mentioned that is that that statement ^ is incorrect. Since their profits aren't the same as normal "profits," they're not doing quite so well as you'd think. They're not taking any increased or decreased margin from the sale of the oil, compared to their costs. If they used normal (LIFO) accounting, they wouldn't be reporting profits that're any or at least much different from the ones they had a year ago or 6 months ago. But, since they don't, despite the fact that their day-to-day LIFO profit margins are nearly identical & unchanged, the dramatic changes in the market price for oil result in huge swings in their profits when you put the same figures into a FIFO system.

If that's too hard for you to understand, then just don't comment on it. I don't understand nuclear physics, but then again, I don't go on tirades about "omfg the particles in yesterday's test are WAAAAAY too far apart!!11! it's insanity!!!111! Someone needs to be hung!"

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Exxon Posts Record Annual Profit

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Originally posted by Inconspicuous By the way, the reason I mentioned that is that that statement ^ is incorrect. Since their profits aren't the same as normal "profits," they're not doing quite so well as you'd think. They're not taking any increased or decreased margin from the sale of the oil, compared to their costs. If they used normal (LIFO) accounting, they wouldn't be reporting profits that're any or at least much different from the ones they had a year ago or 6 months ago. But, since they don't, despite the fact that their day-to-day LIFO profit margins are nearly identical & unchanged, the dramatic changes in the market price for oil result in huge swings in their profits when you put the same figures into a FIFO system. If that's too hard for you to understand, then just don't comment on it. I don't understand nuclear physics, but then again, I don't go on tirades about "omfg the particles in yesterday's test are WAAAAAY too far apart!!11! it's insanity!!!111! Someone needs to be hung!"

Dude, you are a real prick. I understand that I paid a shit load out of my own pocket. Why? I don't know. But I suffered, And then I see that Exxon's business is booming? Fuck you. You are arguing on the wrong side.

LIFO, FIFO, I don't give a SHIT-O. When see a man, who's too poor to afford heating and layers blankets on himself at night to keep warm, there is a problem. (True story)

And people get pissed at Chavez for offering free oil. People need to get their priorities straight, including you. Capitalist twat.

In that case, the people you should be mad at are the news outlets who're reporting that without that understanding of economics. They're reporting it as if all profit reportings are the same, causing millions of gullible or uninformed people to get mad about it like you are right now. I'm not the one telling you information that's misleading.

EDIT: Marc, I've got nothing against you or anybody else who's pissed about it...I know why you're mad, but at the same time, it's just incorrect. I blame the media for that.

so Marc Summers what the hell do you want them to do?

Cut everyone who may have used their gas in 2006 a fat check?

There was a situation a couple years ago where some record companies were sued for price fixing and the settlement got millions back to the consumers. You could sign up to a website if you had purchased a cd during the period where they did the dirty deed ( no form of proof was necessary ) and you would receive a check ( I think I got 20 dollars? )


You want Exxon to get sued and owe everyone 20+ dollars?

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Originally posted by Inconspicuous In that case, the people you should be mad at are the news outlets who're reporting that without that understanding of economics. They're reporting it as if all profit reportings are the same, causing millions of gullible or uninformed people to get mad about it like you are right now. I'm not the one telling you information that's misleading.

You have to understand that people need heating, people need oil, gas, etc. and they can't afford it. This isn't a business making toys. This is a business giving fuel for climate control and mobility. They are playing with our lives for more profit and you can't fucking deny that shit.

You truly are an apathetic piece of shit. You deserve to be blown up by a terrorist because all you see are numbers. Get real, you cvnt. These are people, not customers.

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Originally posted by Marc Summers You have to understand that people need heating, people need oil, gas, etc. and they can't afford it. This isn't a business making toys. This is a business giving fuel for climate control and mobility. They are playing with our lives for more profit and you can't fucking deny that shit. You truly are an apathetic piece of shit. You deserve to be blown up by a terrorist because all you see are numbers. Get real, you cvnt. These are people, not customers.

go tell that to your socialist governement!


honestly they don't give a two shzzle about companies making profit ( unless it's illegal ) because this is what the american dream is all about

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Originally posted by Marc Summers You have to understand that people need heating, people need oil, gas, etc. and they can't afford it. This isn't a business making toys. This is a business giving fuel for climate control and mobility. They are playing with our lives for more profit and you can't fucking deny that shit.

It's still a business. You have to treat it as such, or it'll only last for so long. And yes, any sane person can and would deny that.

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Originally posted by jdat You want Exxon to get sued and owe everyone 20+ dollars?

I want them to lower prices because they can afford it and still make a reasonable profit. $1.25 or less. And lower prices for lower incomes.

Hell, nationalize the companies, and send those businessmen packin'. Give people gas and oil at prices they can afford based on their income.

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Originally posted by Marc Summers I want them to lower prices because they can afford it and still make a reasonable profit. $1.25 or less. And lower prices for lower incomes. Hell, nationalize the companies, and send those businessmen packin'. Give people gas and oil at prices they can afford based on their income.

nationalized industry causes long-term price INCREASES. Price caps cause shortages. Which would you like?

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Originally posted by Inconspicuous It's still a business. You have to treat it as such, or it'll only last for so long. And yes, any sane person can and would deny that.

No, you don't treat it like a business because you are toying with people's lives. My governor (Corzine) treats our state like a business and cut funding to higher education, so it's more $$ per credit. That makes it harder for people with low income to get an education. It's not right.

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