Chavez threat to seize food shops

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Posted by Fir3start3r on Feb-19-2007 02:46:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
his set price controls on petroleum domestically, how does that stifle inflation?

and he is in the process of overvaluing his currency IMO
>link< in an effort control inflation.

oh, you probably mean he'll make up his petro-dollar losses domestically from his exports?

He's definitely building his economy on a deck of cards; if oil prices fall for any length of time, he's screwed.

Posted by Magnetonium on Feb-19-2007 04:10:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
yeah that was called Communist imperialism. again, you've managed to conflate two distinct arguments and now on your way to a third defending Chavez it seems like.

BTW Venezuela's inflation rate at this moment is 18.4%, thats about standard for a post-war communist state.

High inflation rate is not exclusive to post-war states. My whole point here is that Chavez is a communist, thats all, and you guys are just branching off calling him a socialist, socialist democrat - he is no democrat, he attemted a coup (to overthrow government), he changed democracy, he is wrestling control of the country's private sector. He is not a democrat, he appeared to be a social democrat before he did these things, but that was a changing phase. Today he is no democrat, proving that he probably wasnt one in the first place, and he was just waiting for the right time to show his true colours. There is no such thing as a "temporary social democrat", you are either one or you are not.

Posted by Aquadyne on Feb-19-2007 04:20:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium

High inflation rate is not exclusive to post-war states. My whole point here is that Chavez is a communist, thats all, and you guys are just branching off calling him a socialist, socialist democrat - he is no democrat, he attemted a coup (to overthrow government), he changed democracy, he is wrestling control of the country's private sector. He is not a democrat, he appeared to be a social democrat before he did these things, but that was a changing phase. Today he is no democrat, proving that he probably wasnt one in the first place, and he was just waiting for the right time to show his true colours. There is no such thing as a "temporary social democrat", you are either one or you are not.

1. If you're referring to Chavez's coup attempt - it was because Carlos Andres Perez (president of Venezuela) suspended constitutional rights of the citizens in 1989. Chavez's response was to restore a democratic government, not to subvert one because one did not exist at the time.

2. How did he "change democracy"?

3. He is not wrestling control of the private sector, he is merely looking to reassert state control over key industries that are crucial to the survival of the state. Many governments do this to prevent foreign or private control of natural resources. That is a good thing.

Posted by Q5echo on Feb-19-2007 04:36:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
There is no such thing as a "temporary social democrat",

i beg to differ.

Posted by Q5echo on Feb-19-2007 04:38:

Posted by Magnetonium on Feb-19-2007 04:43:

quote:
Originally posted by Aquadyne
1. If you're referring to Chavez's coup attempt - it was because Carlos Andres Perez (president of Venezuela) suspended constitutional rights of the citizens in 1989. Chavez's response was to restore a democratic government, not to subvert one because one did not exist at the time.

2. How did he "change democracy"?

3. He is not wrestling control of the private sector, he is merely looking to reassert state control over key industries that are crucial to the survival of the state. Many governments do this to prevent foreign or private control of natural resources. That is a good thing.

Mistype! I meant to say "change constitution".

What he is doing about his country is not my problem, not my discussion here. I am merely here to point out that since Chavez is closing down food shops he is not a social democrat. He was always a communist to me. How can he crack down on democracy if he was elected in fair elections to carry out his program? Some of his policies and things he's done have definitely stripped away his "social democrat" status if it ever was in the first place, so no need whining about it and claiming an attack on democracy because people like me have seen this coming miles away.

BTW, Chavez attempted to overthrow a dictator that Americans called a democrat, the one they gave an award to for being a good guy.

Posted by Aquadyne on Feb-21-2007 03:54:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium

[quote]Mistype! I meant to say "change constitution".

So? The constitution gets changed constantly in multiple states. In U.S. they are called amendments, typically they are a good thing. Unless you oppose wacky things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, abolition of slavery, suffrage for women and blacks, etc. Unless you can specifically state how Chavez's actions were negative, then you have absolutely no leg to stand on.

quote:
What he is doing about his country is not my problem, not my discussion here. I am merely here to point out that since Chavez is closing down food shops he is not a social democrat. He was always a communist to me.

He is closing them down because they charge too much for a basic necessity like FOOD. If companies did that in U.S. they would get dragged to court for price gouging.

quote:
How can he crack down on democracy if he was elected in fair elections to carry out his program? Some of his policies and things he's done have definitely stripped away his "social democrat" status if it ever was in the first place, so no need whining about it and claiming an attack on democracy because people like me have seen this coming miles away.

You keep referring how he changed democracy but you haven't explained how. You keep insinuating that the change was for the worse but you haven't shown that it was. Once again, no leg to stand on.

quote:
BTW, Chavez attempted to overthrow a dictator that Americans called a democrat, the one they gave an award to for being a good guy.

I don't know what this supposed to mean, but Americans have overthrown truly democratic presidents like Jacobo Arbenz and proclaimed that guys like Saddam were "good guys". So I wouldn't much stock into what Americans proclaim.

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