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quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers What do you believe in? Science that you can barely understand yourself so you just accept what the experts say? Same thing as religion, you know, "Same shit, different pile".

The thing is, in science there are actual tests of the theories that experts develop; you know, they have to prove that they *work* in some manner and "cash out" in the physical world. Religions have no comparable feature. Apart from archeological and historical debates about their origins, it is all just a game of people who like one book yelling that people who like any other book are all damned to hell or whatever.

Senior Ed Bloom: You're lucky to get four words out of them in English, but if you were to walk through the jungle, you'd hear them speaking the most elaborate French. Those parrots talk about everything. Politics, movies, fashion. Everything but religion.

Will Bloom: Why not religion, Dad?

Senior Ed Bloom: It's rude to talk about religion. You never know who you're gonna offend.

I think it's very possible for there to be a certain level of truth to it. While I don't necessarily believe in a higher-being such as a God, I do believe that a lot of what exists in Christian bibles is based off of actually happenings and that God was just a way to explain the unexplainable.

From what I understand, incidents such as Noah's Flood are referenced throughout reading materials from various religions outside of Christianity and mention that it happened about the same time, although not to the extent that the Bible played it off.

Ultimately, I think that a Jesus Christ did exist. Was he the son of God? It's not my place to say yes/no and I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the person in the tomb was him.

quote:

Originally posted by idoru Ultimately, I think that a Jesus Christ did exist. Was he the son of God? It's not my place to say yes/no and I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the person in the tomb was him.

jew

quote:

Originally posted by idoru Ultimately, I think that a Jesus Christ did exist. Was he the son of God? It's not my place to say yes/no and I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the person in the tomb was him.

Not to discredit Christ ofcourse, but the Hindu interpretation of Jesus Christ is that was an ordinary man like us. Only, he had realized his divinity and hence he was special. Hinduism declares that all of us are God, only, we are ignorant of this fact. By God I do not mean a supernatural being, rather a symbol of universal consciousness. Whatever that means to you There have been countless saints in India who have declared themselves to be God and have given discourses on how to realize this divinity. The latest and a very influential figure of modern hinduism has been quoted in my sig.

Speaking from personal experience of living with a zealous Christian fanatic under the same roof (namely, my spouse) I can safely say that no amount of evidence, short of walking, breathing, shitting, miracle-working Jesus himself saying so (after proving that he, in fact, is _THE_JESUS_*) - would be enough to convince any bible-thumping Christ lover out there. They would not see reality even if it sat on their collective face and took a nice and healthy dump.



_____________
*...which kind of would defeat the purpose of proving that Jesus doesn't exist, now, would it?


LOL @ complete opposite of "Passion of Christ". Man, I love this crazy world.

My personal stance can be summed up by this joke/parable:

"Bunch of kids are in school and tearcher comes in one day and says 'Allright kids, the evidence has been found that proves that G-d does not exist. So, feel free to give the finger to the sky'. All the kids extend the middle finger and start shoving it up at the sky above. Only one kid, little Moishe, is sitting still, not pointing any fingers up. The teacher asks him - 'Moishe, didn't you hear? There's no G-d, so, you don't have to be afraid to give the sky your middle finger!'. Moishe says - 'Well, if that's true - then what's the point of giving it the finger? ....but suppose it isn't true - what's the point in burning the bridge?'"

Let me guess...it's a jewish production. Lets do a documentary on how it's possible that one days worth of oil can, wait for it, wait for it, miraculously(laugh now) burn for eight days. My religion is more righteous than your religion!! Religion is for morons. Theocracies are full of morons. If you believe in any form of religion, you're a weak human being, and a moron. Yes, Isreal, among many other countries, is jam packed full of, wait for it, wait for it, morons(laugh now).

quote:

Originally posted by misterpink Let me guess...it's a jewish production. Lets do a documentary on how it's possible that one days worth of oil can, wait for it, wait for it, miraculously(laugh now) burn for eight days. My religion is more righteous than your religion!! Religion is for morons. Theocracies are full of morons. If you believe in any form of religion, you're a weak human being, and a moron. Yes, Isreal, among many other countries, is jam packed full of, wait for it, wait for it, morons(laugh now).

Totally off-topic, but you wouldn't happen to be a reincarnation of Mr. Pink, would you?

I am, in fact, misterpink reincarnated. It's nothing special though, except that when I shit it, miraculously, doesn't stink.
ps. Israel was spelled wrong on purpose...Isreal...hahaha.

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Originally posted by tubularbills not quite...considering someone who has studied theology for more than 20 years knows more about it than someone who has been "studying" politics for 8+ years]. but then again, i did say mine was a poor example.

back up the train, buddy.

studying theology and "studying" politics? who are you to say which discipline is worthy of standing without quotations? you do know i'm a polisci major, right?

quote:

Originally posted by idoru I think it's very possible for there to be a certain level of truth to it. While I don't necessarily believe in a higher-being such as a God, I do believe that a lot of what exists in Christian bibles is based off of actually happenings and that God was just a way to explain the unexplainable. From what I understand, incidents such as Noah's Flood are referenced throughout reading materials from various religions outside of Christianity and mention that it happened about the same time, although not to the extent that the Bible played it off. Ultimately, I think that a Jesus Christ did exist. Was he the son of God? It's not my place to say yes/no and I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the person in the tomb was him.

100% agreed.

quote:

Originally posted by prolikewhoa back up the train, buddy. studying theology and "studying" politics? who are you to say which discipline is worthy of standing without quotations? you do know i'm a polisci major, right?

I think he was referring to Bush "studying" politics not intelligent people studying politics

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Originally posted by dj_bas I think he was referring to Bush "studying" politics not intelligent people studying politics

oh okay. keep the locomotion moving then.

quote:

Originally posted by idoru I think it's very possible for there to be a certain level of truth to it. While I don't necessarily believe in a higher-being such as a God, I do believe that a lot of what exists in Christian bibles is based off of actually happenings and that God was just a way to explain the unexplainable. From what I understand, incidents such as Noah's Flood are referenced throughout reading materials from various religions outside of Christianity and mention that it happened about the same time, although not to the extent that the Bible played it off. Ultimately, I think that a Jesus Christ did exist. Was he the son of God? It's not my place to say yes/no and I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the person in the tomb was him.

honestly i kinda get what you're referring to, the noah's flood example i mean, but i think there is a bit of confusion. i agree there is definitely a historical importance to the bible...but i think the majority of it really is like you sorta mentioned...taken from other traditions and jesus is transformed into this archetypal god figure. pretty much the entire story of the bible has roots in other previous legends. miraculous birth, many of the miracles, flood legends, timelines of creation, armageddon...all of those things are just part of different legends that precede cristianity. and let's face it. the bible is a collection of written works by a bunch of annonomous authors...it's most likely they borrowed from previous cultural stories.


just imo at least...

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The thing is, in science there are actual tests of the theories that experts develop; you know, they have to prove that they *work* in some manner and "cash out" in the physical world. Religions have no comparable feature. Apart from archeological and historical debates about their origins, it is all just a game of people who like one book yelling that people who like any other book are all damned to hell or whatever.

That's not what I was getting at, and I was very clear. Talk to an "Average" person who claims they are an atheist and believe in science. Surely if they truly believe in science they would understand it. Most atheists don't understand science, and rely on experts. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WHETHER SCIENCE IS RIGHT OR WRONG. If you believe in science you should understand it. It's that simple.

People use the results of the scientific mode of inquiry every time they get into a car, use a computer, eat refrigerated or microwaved food, turn on an air conditioner, or listen to music. What has religion produced by its methods of talking to invisible beings and consulting old books? Very little.

Sure, to someone who knows nothing about science a microwave, a computer monitor, and an internal combustion engine operate essentially by "magic," but this does not change the fact that if a person had the time, intelligence, and inclination he could learn all the relevant information and even perform all the relevant experiments himself. One cannot say this of religion, there being no "experiments" to perform and no "information" to learn beyond the pack of stories squabbled over by theologians. Maybe religious propositions reflect reality and maybe they do not, but there is no reliable way of telling one way or the other.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles People use the results of the scientific mode of inquiry every time they get into a car, use a computer, eat refrigerated or microwaved food, turn on an air conditioner, or listen to music. What has religion produced by its methods of talking to invisible beings and consulting old books? Very little. Sure, to someone who knows nothing about science a microwave, a computer monitor, and an internal combustion engine operate essentially by "magic," but this does not change the fact that if a person had the time, intelligence, and inclination he could learn all the relevant information and even perform all the relevant experiments himself. One cannot say this of religion, there being no "experiments" to perform and no "information" to learn beyond the pack of stories squabbled over by theologians. Maybe religious propositions reflect reality and maybe they do not, but there is no reliable way of telling one way or the other.

I didn't realize ignorance was permissible as long as it has to do with science.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M Hinduism declares that all of us are God, only, we are ignorant of this fact. By God I do not mean a supernatural being, rather a symbol of universal consciousness.

Fuck...when I read this I was about to start robbing banks, fucking random bitches on the street, and laugh at cars approaching me at high speeds.

"I'M GOD MOTHER F*CKER!"

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers I didn't realize ignorance was permissible as long as it has to do with science.

Not at all. The important point is a fundamental difference of method. Idiots and ignorant people can latch onto any sort of institution, religious or non-religious, but this does not mean that all institutions are equal or that belief in one kind is on the same epistemological footing as belief in another kind.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Not at all. The important point is a fundamental difference of method. Idiots and ignorant people can latch onto any sort of institution, religious or non-religious, but this does not mean that all institutions are equal or that belief in one kind is on the same epistemological footing as belief in another kind.

The whole Religion Vs. Science argument is completely laughable because of the fact that these institutions are SO MUCH alike, especially when it comes to their followers.

The followers can be very similar, yes, but the institutions are quite different.

I'm Jesus' role model

quote:

Originally posted by Subey I'm Jesus' role model

Fetch the wine!

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Originally posted by Marc Summers The whole Religion Vs. Science argument is completely laughable because of the fact that these institutions are SO MUCH alike

oh come now. that's just bollocks. faith versus evidence. 'nuff said.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Fetch the wine!

That would imply some sort of parallel association, where clearly I was suggesting a hierarchical one... in other words aim higher... way higher!

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