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-- Who Killed Trance?
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quote:

Originally posted by SuspicionVandit some people have horrible tastes

and some people taste horribly

quote:

Originally posted by CrazedOut Hmmmm.... then I'm guessin you taste like shit

genius. pure genius.

i wish more people like you were on this board. i think i will stay home tonight because i'm so sad now. way to put me in my place.

quote:

Originally posted by sljiva You still don't get it? Trance is not dead literally. Trance is dead because it stoped evolving, the creativity is gone and the producers who are doing something innovative and fresh are very rare and lost in a sea of crappiness. That's more than enough for some people to declare it's dead.

Hey,

well then Hip Hop died too, right? And House, and all? Music just repeats itself over and over for years, electronic music just grew up.

And listening to music from 1995 and 2000 and 2003/2004 and 2007 shows me clearly a huge difference in producing music. Trance is getting an older style of music now, so innovations clearly wille be rare, and the more music styles spread over the world, the less innovation will go to each class of style. Thats it, in my opinion. So to say, i would clearly not say trance is dead, i would just say other styles of music became famous too, and trance is not that famous anymore. That is how things go. :-) But then again, counting Trance / Techno / House / Progressive as one thing, the thing it was before 2000, then.. i am pretty sure its all but dead :-) It opened itself, and this is the best thing an evolving organism does, eh, produce childs.

Despite that taste changes a little, and opinions, you get experience in what you listened "you hear repeated melodies in different songs" things get less interesting and you say they are dead.

Its not like with the 70's and 80's or 60's, its not such an accurate exact same style of music, the music of these times did not change too much, it just sounded very similiar. Now Techno spread itself into trance, into house, and progressive, maybe breakbeat and what so ever.

Influences come from everywhere and get build in as the more people listen to djs from other countries.

Its widely affected why this happened. Earlier in time things were less global, now they are extremely global, and the fact internet is there and everyebody can listen to so much music just spreads more and more!

Internet allows you to listen to more style of music
this way you get influenced as a dj, and produce different music,
others get the same, and thus everybody changes and music it self too.
Therefore it evolved, and still does.

Still there is this little basic called "trance" , i would call house progressive and hardtrance and trance and techno all together as "trance".

Despite that you can not expect people to produce the same kind of music for years, they will change, they are the same people!! that MUST change.

A next step for trance could be to implement more pop / rock / metall music into trance, mixing styles up and slowing them together.

After all trance is just a set of music tones and vocal voices you can put together in a non heard way, you just cant do much new things but arrange beats and things new, sounding just a tiny little different from what a good listener ever heard. How could this develop more?
Add more tones, more voices, and thats it, haha! No, evolving would be to mash with other music styles, just as in life you gotta have sex with someone else to produce someone new.

Playing mashups is not really evolving the style!
So just mix styles of different generes of music, and add a few trance into it, a bit progressive, a little house and a tiny techno element, having so many options you clearly can evolve trance, into another form.

But trance (without progressive, house, etc..) itself will actually never change, all that changes are tones / vocals. But trance itself will never do, only the producers programs!

With a drum you can just drum, so it is with trance, with its set of tones and melodies and all, you can just do the same again and again in a different manner. After 2000 i think there was a little step in music production , tahts why it changed, but since that? Just different melodie and sound sets, not a single innovation.

So much for that.

Trance can not die, all it can do is not being played anymore.
Evolving of trance is just due to producers set of tones / melodies.

Unless noone ever changes 4/4 to 6/4 or 7/4 or 3/4 we will not hear
too much of innovation ;o)

or mix trance with pop rock metall and all that, that is innovation, if you are good at it :-)

I really don't see how that makes it dead. Plenty of artists are still innovative. Although agreed Tiesto is killin it.

Was it Ferry Corsten... in the Conservatory... with the Supersaw?

quote:

Originally posted by Purple I always thought Ferry killed trance cos someone posted that before.. but recently I heard his album LEF and I don't think he could have killed it. He dosent have that bend of mind. People killed trance when they started calling house as trance.

alot of trance fans who were in the scene in the early 90's believe that, because he basically carried the progressive and anthem trance scene and trance stopped being wat is was when it started. so in that sense he did kill it but imo it was still quality, after 2001 then it started to decline in quality, mainly because of avb and tiesto imo. but it still isnt fucking dead lol

base causes

- The rise of the internet/mass filesharing
- surburban white america influenced by tiesto/darude/oakenfold, etc
- loss of early 90s youth culture to culture of decadence and instant gratification and youtube

catalysts

- borders/chain store music sections/ commercial comps
- asot
- concert-style headliner events (summerstage, armin only, etc)

I would call it death as well, but maybe so everyone is on the same page it's better to call it a transformation.

This transformation can be looked at in many ways based on bias. For me the transformation of proper "trance" music into current "trance" music, is a sort of death indeed, the death of ideals, of culture, of sound, of musical values. What "trance" is currently is usually devoid of anything trance-inducing and more about the 'banger', the 'ch00n', and all of the melodrama that ensues... I have found seeing armin or pvd live a very unpleasant experience because I am always painfully aware of the reality of the concert/fist pump/fan boy orgy and the music doesn't let me lose myself.

What we are dealing with here I feel is more a result of a cultural change, and who is to blame is this new culture, and then the DJs and producers who began to sell their sound to this 'market'. It is a two way system of the transformation of the massive into the market and the iconoclast into the consumer.

Some of this new asot prog sound that comes out honestly has more to do with Target commercials and minivans than the counter-culture energy that permeated early trance clubs like e-werk and tresor, and of course things like love parade.

I believe you will understand that trance is essentially "dead", or let's say its children have eclipsed and effectively rubbed it out, if you watch these videos in sequence. Try to think about the "message" and the "meaning" in the videos and the music - they are directly related to cultural values.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Major themes and imagery of video:
- Rotating computer-generated solids and landscape fly-overs
- Fall of the berlin wall
- Urban landscape/political landscape
- Community, cultural unity
- Empowerment of music as a force that embodies cultural ideas of unity, tolerance, futurism, and progressive values
- universal "tribal" ritual

particularly watch the mijk van dijk live part. god i would kill to have been a part of that

Trance?
Major themes and imagery of video:
- Scantily-clad women (objectified)
- Asses
- High Heels
- (s)Excess
- Objectifcation of music vis-a-vis "hit" radio track/anthem

Some things of course are still shared - PvD has always been melodic/anthemic, but the difference is when he was doing it in the early 90s it was not yet a commodity and also it was still more or less new. The vestiges of this culture still remain here today, but I hope you can realize that the ideals which shaped trance music are pretty much dead...

quote:

Originally posted by spc Was it Ferry Corsten... in the Conservatory... with the Supersaw?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec base causes - The rise of the internet/mass filesharing - surburban white america influenced by tiesto/darude/oakenfold, etc - loss of early 90s youth culture to culture of decadence and instant gratification and youtube catalysts - borders/chain store music sections/ commercial comps - asot - concert-style headliner events (summerstage, armin only, etc) I would call it death as well, but maybe so everyone is on the same page it's better to call it a transformation. This transformation can be looked at in many ways based on bias. For me the transformation of proper "trance" music into current "trance" music, is a sort of death indeed, the death of ideals, of culture, of sound, of musical values. What "trance" is currently is usually devoid of anything trance-inducing and more about the 'banger', the 'ch00n', and all of the melodrama that ensues... I have found seeing armin or pvd live a very unpleasant experience because I am always painfully aware of the reality of the concert/fist pump/fan boy orgy and the music doesn't let me lose myself. What we are dealing with here I feel is more a result of a cultural change, and who is to blame is this new culture, and then the DJs and producers who began to sell their sound to this 'market'. It is a two way system of the transformation of the massive into the market and the iconoclast into the consumer. Some of this new asot prog sound that comes out honestly has more to do with Target commercials and minivans than the counter-culture energy that permeated early trance clubs like e-werk and tresor, and of course things like love parade. I believe you will understand that trance is essentially "dead", or let's say its children have eclipsed and effectively rubbed it out, if you watch these videos in sequence. Try to think about the "message" and the "meaning" in the videos and the music - they are directly related to cultural values. [[ LINK REMOVED ]] Major themes and imagery of video: - Rotating computer-generated solids and landscape fly-overs - Fall of the berlin wall - Urban landscape/political landscape - Community, cultural unity - Empowerment of music as a force that embodies cultural ideas of unity, tolerance, futurism, and progressive values - universal "tribal" ritual particularly watch the mijk van dijk live part. god i would kill to have been a part of that Trance? Major themes and imagery of video: - Scantily-clad women (objectified) - Asses - High Heels - (s)Excess - Objectifcation of music vis-a-vis "hit" radio track/anthem Some things of course are still shared - PvD has always been melodic/anthemic, but the difference is when he was doing it in the early 90s it was not yet a commodity and also it was still more or less new. The vestiges of this culture still remain here today, but I hope you can realize that the ideals which shaped trance music are pretty much dead...

wats the song playing at the start of the first clip??

I say lock this type of "who killed trance" threads from now on. most people post worthless comments anyways.









































like this one

quote:

Originally posted by the gamemaster wats the song playing at the start of the first clip??

I think its a tune by effective force (diamond bullet is in though for sure) but maybe i'm wrong. Its surely a tune by MFS though lol. The whole soundtrack was perfect, and the last tune, where the aeroplane takes off is...just perfect electronic music (sounds like early paul van dyk if someone knows it please id).Some other wanderful tunes as well like Vernon's wanderland, Humate's love stimulation,Marmion's Schoneberg, Scubadiver's celestial symphony(heavenly track) and others...


Yes that early trance was perfect, the polyrhythmic sequences, the spacey arpeggios it was beautiful.When i first started going to clubs in 99 (i was 18 then) i loved epic trance, but nowadays, even that 97-99 sound doesn't do it for me. Nowadays, i'm not a fan of the majority of EDM (which has become a parodious shadow of itself IMO),i like moslty ambient,post-rock, and electronica in the broader sense but strangely enough, i still dig an old ep by Resistance D that i bought when i was 15 and i still like to listen to the "thinking about myself" album by Cosmic Baby and to an early Eye-Q compilation. Those albums have somehow survived the test of time, more then any epic-trance compilation like Oakenfold's "New York" (although great album) or tiesto's first magik or ISOS compilations.

Those early 90s trance albums were really deep and artistic not just a collection of poppy tunes with some super-star collaborations and a bunch of famous vocalists thrown in. To bad that trance music evolved into super-saw euro-beat poppy circus, because that early sound, had the potential to evolve to something very artistic, big and avant-garde at the same time.

every thing before 96 was amazing (love stimulation, age of love, for an angel, the space track, etc. etc.) alot of them were just timeless classics. from 96 to about 2001 it was alot more commercial but there were still some great tunes even if some were cheesy and still alot of gems (saltwater, greece 2000, suburban train, etc.) then after that there was very few good tracks and just mostly poppy/epic bullshit (shivers, adagio for strings, u know..).

i like trance from all these phases but it progressively got alot worse imo.

Trance always seems better in the past because the bad tracks fade away... you only remember the good ones.

It's the exact same with any single other genre on Earth.

Ugh, I don't know why I even click on these threads anymore.

come on your saying that the stuff out there today is as good as it was back then?

classics dont become classics in their time but there will be not that many true classics that arent just pop trance hits in 10 years from this decade

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec base causes - The rise of the internet/mass filesharing - surburban white america influenced by tiesto/darude/oakenfold, etc - loss of early 90s youth culture to culture of decadence and instant gratification and youtube

Please. If these are the base causes, then house and techno should be dead too, yet I don't see anybody on house boards complaining.

quote:

Originally posted by the gamemaster come on your saying that the stuff out there today is as good as it was back then? classics dont become classics in their time but there will be not that many true classics that arent just pop trance hits in 10 years from this decade

On a whole, I'm saying who knows. I can guarantee this though: five years from now people will point to tracks that are current today as evidence that trance isn't what it used to be. But you can point to Binary Finary and Cafe Del Mar all you want. Point is, there were some awfully shit tracks back then too.

Well yeah, those are the BASE causes, and the catalysts are what caused it to die already.

Had house or techno an asot equivalent, and events like armin only, pvd summerstage, trance energy, tiesto in concert, etc then they too would be in a similar "State of Trance"

My point is exactly what you suggest - these base factors could cause the decline of any music genre, it is the catalysts acting upon them which precipitates its demise.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov On a whole, I'm saying who knows. I can guarantee this though: five years from now people will point to tracks that are current today as evidence that trance isn't what it used to be. But you can point to Binary Finary and Cafe Del Mar all you want. Point is, there were some awfully shit tracks back then too.

ofcourse there were but trance was different, it wasnt so commercial or cheesy and made to appeal to the masses. the equivalent of a "shivers" back then might have been children but it was still true to trance and it didnt seem like pop like alot of tracks do now

quote:

Originally posted by the gamemaster ofcourse there were but trance was different, it wasnt so commercial or cheesy and made to appeal to the masses. the equivalent of a "shivers" back then might have been children but it was still true to trance and it didnt seem like pop like alot of tracks do now

Blank and Jones?

I'll give you this, commercialization of dance in general (which trance seems to lead) has probably lent itself to higher volume of tracks flooding the market that aren't very good. But I bet there are just as many today that are good as back then.

Look at rock: when rock was first emerging, everything was good (Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, etc.). Now, we have Bowling for Soup. Doesn't mean there aren't good rock bands out there too. Just means the market is more saturated.

quote:

Originally posted by the gamemaster it didnt seem like pop like alot of tracks do now

Also, pop has changed a lot too. Kaskade said in an interview that pop top 40 stuff is about 5 years behind dance music. What the best producers in house and trance are doing now will be what the new wave of pop music sounds like in the future. The particular examples he used were Toxic by Britney and The Killers if I recall correctly.

true and im not saying all trance is bad these days either but it seems there is alot more bad than good. for 2005 i could probably count the number of trance tracks i liked on my fingers while if u go bak to 99 or 95 or something the list is endless. 2006 was a bit better but there was still so much crud

quote:

Originally posted by the gamemaster true and im not saying all trance is bad these days either but it seems there is alot more bad than good. for 2005 i could probably count the number of trance tracks i liked on my fingers while if u go bak to 99 or 95 or something the list is endless. 2006 was a bit better but there was still so much crud

I have to admit I'm outgunned since I more or less stopped listening to trance and moved to house, but I still think there are some quality productions from the sets I grab from time to time.

i get alot of it and there are a few really great ones, im not saying 100% of trance these days is bad.

last year's better tracks imo were
above and beyond - good for me (club mix)
luminary - amsterdam
hybrid - just for today
mannix vs kaymak - world gone mad (dan stone remix)
andy hunter - go

i dont listen to much psy or goa trance anymore so that could be different altogether but compare that list to the great tunes u can name for 99 or watever and u see why trance has declined so much. its not "dead" but fuck its dying lol

quote:

Originally posted by the gamemaster i get alot of it and there are a few really great ones, im not saying 100% of trance these days is bad. last year's better tracks imo were above and beyond - good for me (club mix) luminary - amsterdam hybrid - just for today mannix vs kaymak - world gone mad (dan stone remix) andy hunter - go i dont listen to much psy or goa trance anymore so that could be different altogether but compare that list to the great tunes u can name for 99 or watever and u see why trance has declined so much. its not "dead" but fuck its dying lol

Meh, it's all subjective though. I didn't listen to that much, but my list would be much longer than that.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov I'll give you this, commercialization of dance in general (which trance seems to lead) has probably lent itself to higher volume of tracks flooding the market that aren't very good. But I bet there are just as many today that are good as back then. Look at rock: when rock was first emerging, everything was good (Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, etc.). Now, we have Bowling for Soup. Doesn't mean there aren't good rock bands out there too. Just means the market is more saturated.

+1 Very insightful.

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