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-- Intifada 2002
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im not taking any side now cause u have to be here to understand.... anyway one issue must be understood by u all 2 monthes ago before THIS mess started when a palestinian walked inside jerusalem or tel-aviv its a normal thing they are part of us every third person is arab... and when 1 israeli even dared going inside jenin lets say he wouldent survive more than 5 mins... and even today they are among us here in jerusalem and tel-aviv and they are studying in universitys near me... anyway this shows whos hostile and about that u cant bullshit cause this is a fact... and one more thing when everyone say we are killing children.... we are not stupid we have no interest in killing children its not stopping terror and defenately not helping our world image a german research proved that the boy who got killed in his father arms was killed by palestinian fire.. u need to understand they send theyre 16 years old child to suicide and promice them heaven they will kill theyre own children... in afghanistan a ggirl who shows her face is being leenched just compare they are the same people arafat was a terrorist before just like osama bin laden.....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by trancaholic

That statement has absolutely no value in this discussion. First of all it's a red herring and secondly you supply no facts whatsoever to back up your postulates.


Eugene was right. You Europeans have dug yourselves such hole that you don't know how to get out of it now do you? You guys think you have an open mind, but your so shut up in that little stuffy book that your about to suffocate yourself. U guys are so dependent upon oil from the Arabs that at the sound of the Israelis "hurting" your "friends" you get all upset and start crying. To bad. At least the U.S. was smart enough not to become to dependent on the Middile East for Oil. We only get like 20% from them and get the rest from countries near us. So pretty much you guys are in a sh*t hole. Secondly, Israel could care less about what you Europeans say. Sure you can have the EU set up trade embargos but that dont mean nothing. When the Israelis get that $6 billion check from the U.S. along with the F-16's and Apache's they'll be laughing at you guys to the bank. The funny thing is that Israel could wipe out any attack made by the surrounding Arabs on their nation, as has been shown in the past. The last thing is that you Europeans are so swamped with Arabs in your countries that you guys are afraid to stand up for what is right. If been to Copahagen, Oslo, Frankfurt, and London. I felt like I was in the Middle East with all the Arabs running around. You guys are so afraid that they will over throw your government and cause riots that you guys fold your hands and nod you heads.

Ian van Dahl is chezze....

quote:

Originally posted by tranzformer Thats an ignorant comment. Maybe you should keep up with current events and watch the news. All of the surrounding Arab countries (Lebannon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,...etc even European countries like France, England, Norway ....) have been having protests about the military offensive that the Israelis have been taking. They all shout for the total destruction of Israel and the the rise of the Palistinian nation. So give me the name of ONE Arab nation that suports Israel and what they are doing. You can't now can you??

Actually cweb is absolutely right. Other Arab countries hate the Palis, otherwise they would help 'em. But Palis get shot trying to cross the border into Jordan, and Egyptians also keep 'em locked up in Gaza. The reason that other Arabs are joining in the renunciation of Israel is out of hatred and the necessity to present a unified "front" to the rest of the world, and also to have an excuse to get some licks in if an Arab offensive starts. Look back in history over the various wars Israelis fought with those countries, it always starts like that. The thing that I still don't understand is how the hell Israel managed to keep these fools at bay from the point that it declared it's independence. arabs are numerically superior and for the first two wars also had the superiority of arms. but any stiff resistance would sent 'em flying back to their homes screaming about the imagined atrocities commited by the Jews in those wars. Only Jordan managed to grab up a piece. Also Jordan was the only country to have a truce with Israel and even a sort of an alliance. I'd say they've shown some support, but to show more would be to go against their "brothers". Oh well that's my two cents, can we start killing these threadz? they have nothing to do with music

Re: Re: Re: you guys havent been reading the other threads

quote:

If Israel would give the Palestinians 80% of all the land, no Jerusalem, and no right of return, this would be comparable to a 50-50 compromise.

Yoepus, old buddy, what would be the questions that the Israelis were compromising on, if such a deal was made? I think that is exactly what they want - which isnt a compromise in my book.

Read Carefully

read this maybe im late but read
listen here man!! look as u can see im egyptian and im proud to be arab and in our islamic religion we dont go out in the street kill ppl ok
and i think u know what ur military is doing very well haa coz i really got so pissed when u said u r afraid from looking into arabs eyes or anywhere in the street. we r not like that u or ur ppl took over these ppl's lands and they deserve to get them back and in our religion if u r fighting an enemy and u got killed u go straight to heaven as being honered for defending ur country thats y palestinas blow up themselves coz they r killing the enemy and saving their lands so i hope u understand what i said...cheers

The Jews has all my respect in the world.
They are a strong people with great thinkers through their time, still, you guys really have a bunch of idiots in your government also. Those extremely right wing guys, those idiots from Likud that is? Please, they are like Usama, but not so obvious, just behind some fancy suits and fancy name.

I believe that there are Israelis that wants to end this shit, that had enough, that just cant take it anymore, not just from the palestinians, but also from their own government, their own government promise protection but still they attack and kill palestinians building more rage into them that sure as hell wont help the protection.

On the other hand we have the palestinians, a people with a STUPID leader, if I was Arafat, I would be happy with what I have and I would try to build up the country, not using every single penny to guns and c4 so i can send little girls blowing up themselves and making the situation even worse. The palestinians really need a stronger and better leader, a leader that believes in rational methods, in stopping their own people and building their own country and then start talking with israelis about the jerusalem situation.

The Israelis arrested a Palestinian officer, i cant remember his name, but that guy would be the best leader Palestine would have, since all this time he has always said, we must reach an understanding with the israelis and live side by side, this cant go on anymore.

God Damn it, Jews, Arabs, Christians, we are all brothers and sisters, we all come from Abraham. This war is stupid.

Ariel Sharon is stupid, Yassir Arafat is stupid and George W. Bush is extremely stupid.

Peace you guys, and all you in Israel, go for peace, I know its the harder way you guys but in the end thats the way that will win! I promise!

Re: Re: Re: Re: you guys havent been reading the other threads

quote:

Originally posted by tenor Yoepus, old buddy, what would be the questions that the Israelis were compromising on, if such a deal was made? I think that is exactly what they want - which isnt a compromise in my book.

heya tenor...
As for the 50-50. You have to understasnd the claims;
Israel want all the land.
Palestinians want all the land.

Those are the extreme ideals; the moderate ideals are:
Israel wants a Jewish Independent and Secure State with the most land possible.
Palestinians want a palestinian independent state with the most land possible.

We can assume that they both have equal claims, altought in reality the Palestinian claim is much weaker since they gave up their opprotunities of country, and lost many wars for the land (and didn't get anything from the British in writing).

Now we must also consider the following; Israel is the stronger party (this usually changes 50-50 to 60-40). The Palestinians have almost no diplomatic playing cards (other then terrorism, and that arab brotherhood thing.. oh and now the european-brother thing i guess).

From here on you can understand that 80% of the land to the Palestinians, is more then 50%, and the extra 30% is used to supplement their demands over Jerusalem (which is just to hard to divide if you ever looked at the maps and plans) and the right of return.

Also when you limit it to 80% you can get rid of the settler issue in such a compromise, and create realistic defenseable borders for both nations.

Yoepus
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the fine line between sanity and madness gotten finer?

btw..

I believe that the Palestinians have themselves to blaim when they dont have a country, in the first place, israel offered them a very generous offer, 50 years ago, and palestinian response was, all jews should be drowned in the sea, again mr. ehud barak came with an OUTSTANDING offer and that motherfucking MORON Yassir Araffat says in front of National Tv that Barak can go to hell..

in the words of my father: Well mr. Arafat, receive it. This is all your doings, this is all your fault and by all rights he is right.

PEACE!

quote:

Originally posted by tranzformer Thats an ignorant comment. Maybe you should keep up with current events and watch the news. All of the surrounding Arab countries (Lebannon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,...etc even European countries like France, England, Norway ....) have been having protests about the military offensive that the Israelis have been taking. They all shout for the total destruction of Israel and the the rise of the Palistinian nation. So give me the name of ONE Arab nation that suports Israel and what they are doing. You can't now can you??

Now THAT's the dumbest post I ve read in a while. Start learning reading before you even think about drop some lines here. Man that was weak!

Re: Intifada 2002

quote:

Originally posted by NyKoN i just wanted to tell all of u that ive been in London for the seventh time in my life a few days ago. and just for ur knowledge- i was shit ass scared to walk in the streets. i know some of you also doubt the israeli action against the palestinians in the west bank. but with every moment that i saw someone with an islamic or arabic image i just felt the fear going through my body. some of u may call it racsim but, me and many of my friends who fell like this when they were abroad in the past few weeks, call it war shock. i never thought until that weekend that this intifada will ever affect me but it did. i was afraid that in some moment when i was in mcdonalds or at HMV someone will go in and blow himself up in the store. so i ask u ppl to plz try and understand our actions and see from our side how we deal with this war bcz i dont just think- i know that u could have never deal with this kind of cruel terror. today 13 elite soldiers of the IDF were killed by terrorists who killed thier own ppl when they blew up in the centre of Jenin refugee camp.

I dont understand why the US is not supporting isreal since isreal's intentions are to 'root out terrorism' so they say. I think that both nations should be separated by the Great wall of china with neutral territory 50m on both sides of the wall. the UN should also take some fucking initiative jesus those lazy bastards.

Re: Read Carefully

quote:

Originally posted by a_adl we r not like that u or ur ppl took over these ppl's lands and they deserve to get them back and in our religion if u r fighting an enemy and u got killed u go straight to heaven as being honered for defending ur country thats y palestinas blow up themselves coz they r killing the enemy and saving their lands so i hope u understand what i said...cheers

wait a sec didnt you just say

quote:

look as u can see im egyptian and im proud to be arab and in our islamic religion we dont go out in the street kill ppl ok

i guess you proved yourself wrong...
furthermore you know as well as i that palestinians are not defined by their religion, palestinians are both islamic and christian. however i have yet to see a christian suicide bomber. why dont all the supreme islamic spiritual leaders speak out agianst the terrorism that is rampant in their society.

quote:

i think u know what ur military is doing very well

what are they doing? do you think they are intentionally targeting inncocent civilians, women and children and shooting them to their death? i know that it is not the intention nor will nor the conduct in which the IDF acts. i cant say the same for the palestinian suicide bombers or the snipers that shoot at israeli civilians in various settlements (gilo).

quote:

Originally posted by cweb Now THAT's the dumbest post I ve read in a while. Start learning reading before you even think about drop some lines here. Man that was weak!

care to tell us why you think this is dumb or are we to accept this is just 'weak' for no apparent reason

tenor, nice to see you in here, how you doing? still coming to GKGG? you wanna meet up there?

I hate religion. I hope it burns in what it calls it's hell. I am so glad that i do not have a religion becuase it intigates a segregatory affect. We as humans must unite and not fight over land which was proclaimed by people living there thousands of years ago.
FUCK RELIGION..... DEATH TO RELIGION!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok jews quit it.
haven't you realized it yet?!
occupying a land costs both blood and life.
Remember when Sovjet occupied Afghanistan. They lost thousands of soliders and 10 years later were forced to leave the country.
If the Israelis think they can occupy land and build settlements without any reaction from the palestinian side then they got shit in their brains.
just the fact that the Israelis voted for an international warcrime as a prime minister (Sharon) which is by Amnesty International listed as guilty for the death of more than 8000 civilians in Sabra and Shatila shows how much peace the israelis wants (zero).


get lost israelis with your filthy sionist propaganda

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: you guys havent been reading the other threads

quote:

As for the 50-50. You have to understasnd the claims; Israel want all the land. Palestinians want all the land.

Both claims are unrealistic, and I think very few people really claim that anymore. Except for those 10 NRP & UTJ members of the Knesset..

quote:

Those are the extreme ideals; the moderate ideals are: Israel wants a Jewish Independent and Secure State with the most land possible. Palestinians want a palestinian independent state with the most land possible. We can assume that they both have equal claims, altought in reality the Palestinian claim is much weaker since they gave up their opprotunities of country, and lost many wars for the land (and didn't get anything from the British in writing).

How does that make their claim any weaker?

quote:

Now we must also consider the following; Israel is the stronger party (this usually changes 50-50 to 60-40). The Palestinians have almost no diplomatic playing cards (other then terrorism, and that arab brotherhood thing.. oh and now the european-brother thing i guess).

No shit. How can they have diplomatic playing cards when they are being occupied by a foreign nation?

quote:

From here on you can understand that 80% of the land to the Palestinians, is more then 50%, and the extra 30% is used to supplement their demands over Jerusalem (which is just to hard to divide if you ever looked at the maps and plans) and the right of return.

More than 50% of what? Are you saying that west bank and gaza should be divided 50-50 is the claim of Israel?

quote:

Also when you limit it to 80% you can get rid of the settler issue in such a compromise, and create realistic defenseable borders for both nations.

Uh? How does that get rid of the settler issue? Are you proposing that the settlers stay and that land is given to Israel? Would that mean also IDF soldiers around these settlements?

Re: Re: Read Carefully

quote:

what are they doing? do you think they are intentionally targeting inncocent civilians, women and children and shooting them to their death?

At least they are not doing their best to avoid it. IMHO. Bulldozing random homes, little girls pleading them not to make holes in their wall, but they do it anyway..

quote:

tenor, nice to see you in here, how you doing? still coming to GKGG? you wanna meet up there?

Quite bored of the arguments ;D I might - it all comes down to when my company is sending me over to UK

@Izzy: read the post I quotet. There's a quote for me in there. read my statement and his reaction, then you will see how thats dumb. I have nothing against people disagreeing with me. But hey at least when you say my post is ignorant post some real argument and not that shit you posted.

I don't wanna offend any religions here, but don't you find it interesting how in every war Islam is involved ?
Palestine, Afganistan, Chechnya in Russia...

I hate how palestines, afganistanians and all such are hiding behind their religions to commit terrorist acts. There is NO EXCUSE for terrorism.

I have family living in Israel. They are fuckin' scared to ride a bus, or to even drive a car near a bus. Would you like to live like that?

You guys here are saying shit about Israel, but have you ever lived there? You just look at it from news-paper's perspective.

I do think that Sharon's policy is useless; however he must do something. He can't just let terrorists acts happen.

quote:

Originally posted by cweb Now THAT's the dumbest post I ve read in a while. Start learning reading before you even think about drop some lines here. Man that was weak!

Your an idiot, before you start commenting, why don't YOU start reading up on the issues invoolved. Wow, Im sooooooooooooooooo afraid and upset about your comments cweb. Kiss my as$ b*tch.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei I hate how palestines, afganistanians and all such are hiding behind their religions to commit terrorist acts. There is NO EXCUSE for terrorism.

can you name one single afghan organization that has ever commited a terroristact?

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei I don't wanna offend any religions here, but don't you find it interesting how in every war Islam is involved ? Palestine, Afganistan, Chechnya in Russia...

Don't forget Somolia, Yugoslavia (Serbia/Bosnia), Kashmir (Pakistan-India), Indonesia, Philipines....

They really are trying to fight for dominance of their religion world wide, and right now it is working.

Yoepus

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Don't forget Somolia, Yugoslavia (Serbia/Bosnia), Kashmir (Pakistan-India), Indonesia, Philipines.... They really are trying to fight for dominance of their religion world wide, and right now it is working. Yoepus "All great truths begin as blasphemies."

and dont forget USA. we haven't forgotten that USA invaded Vietnam and Somalia and killed thousands of innocent ppl.
and don't forget that USA is the final superpower. but hopefully that won't last for long. Remember what happened to Sovjet. no one would have thought that sovjet would fall.
it's just a matter of time.

quote:

Originally posted by tranzformer Your an idiot, before you start commenting, why don't YOU start reading up on the issues invoolved. Wow, Im sooooooooooooooooo afraid and upset about your comments cweb. Kiss my as$ b*tch.

Where the hell is the idiot-smiley?
Here is your "excellent" post one more time:


quote:
Originally posted by cweb
one thing i wanted to say (it hasnt really something to do with the actual discussion).

The palistenenan folk is basically alone, no support. Its not like every arab country around israel like the palis, on the contrary. they all hate israel but they alkso do not like the palis. the actual politics has to consider that in my opinion because groups OUTSIDE of Israel had put oil in this fire!!!!


Thats an ignorant comment. Maybe you should keep up with current events and watch the news. All of the surrounding Arab countries (Lebannon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,...etc even European countries like France, England, Norway ....) have been having protests about the military offensive that the Israelis have been taking. They all shout for the total destruction of Israel and the the rise of the Palistinian nation. So give me the name of ONE Arab nation that suports Israel and what they are doing. You can't now can you??

Now how thats not dumb? Have I said that the arab countries support Israel? I said that they all hate Israel and the reason they protest is because of their HATE against Israel not the love for the Palisteneans. They do not like Palis, but they HATe Israel, do you understand boy?

The problem with the islamic world is the fact that all of their countries are dominated by dictatorships, mostly rooted in fundamentalist islam. Any autocratic regime that has the ability to suppress (often brutally) their people is capable of producing a populace that is indoctrinated into radical ways of thinking...hence all the suicide bombers from those states. The American Empire will not crumble like Russia because it is not an Autocratic regime..history can be used as a way to predict the future but it doesn't always happen the same way. This combination of fundamentalist dictatorships and all the neccessary conditions that go along with it (Suppression of women, lack of education, freedom of press, etc...)that predominate the middle east are the reason that the islamic world has stagnated in it's backwards state for centuries. It's hard to believe that the islamic world was once the pinnacle of development in science, art, and technology while Europe was far behind..but now look...
I support Israel because it promotes democracy and freedom. One thing you never hear mentioned is how Israel has palestinians in their government, they are a free democratic state...to see that destroyed by a bunch of lunatic arabs is just sad.

That's lame...

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei I don't wanna offend any religions here, but don't you find it interesting how in every war Islam is involved ? Palestine, Afganistan, Chechnya in Russia...

How can you forget all the Christian wars fought throught history.
& Somewhat recently in Ireland...
Islam is a newer religion.
Just as Christianity was when it arised...
Christianity had many more conflicts as it spread, hense it's the worlds largest religion.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei You guys here are saying shit about Israel, but have you ever lived there? You just look at it from news-paper's perspective.

Have you ever lived with the Palestinians?

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei I do think that Sharon's policy is useless; however he must do something. He can't just let terrorists acts happen.

Don't you think?
Don't you realize that what Sharon is doing is simply creating more hatred, which will result in more suicide bombs...

quote:

Originally posted by Yeopus They do not like Palis, but they HATe Israel, do you understand boy?

Why do you think they Hate Israel?
Give me reasons!!!

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