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-- Man with unloaded gun killed by victim
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fixed!

I have no pity for the kid. I'm sorry, but that was just a stupid fucking move on his part.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish So someone has a gun pointed at you and shouts "give me your car or I'll shoot you" why yes fumbling for a gun is the best way to get out of that.

How do you guys know that he "fumbled" for his gun as he was being robbed? Perhaps he noticed the people in the area, quietly reached for his gun and then flashed it in the open when confronted. It's not like he took the time to dive for it after the people were surrounding him and asking to give them his car. The man had a concealed weapons PERMIT for fucks sake, that means he knows incredibly well how to safely hide a weapon, obtain it from that hidden spot and use it with skill. It doesn't mean he's going to aimlessly toss it under his seat and then dive for it once a gun is pulled on him.

The kids were on a crime spree. You can only try to rob people so many times before someone's going to have the balls to fight back. When you point a gun at a pedestrian, you don't know whether or not they have a weapon. Regardless of whether or not it's loaded, the person facing the barrel is thinking one thing, "OH SHIT! I'm fucking dead in thirty seconds. FUCK!" Even if I was being robbed and someone demands my car and I chose to give it to them I would still fear for my life. Why? Because he has a gun pointed at me, because I don't know how mentally unstable this individual is, and because people have been shot even after they've given the robber everything s/he/they have demanded.

If I had a concealed weapons permit and I was confronted and fearing for my life, I would've done the same exact thing.

quote:

If I had a concealed weapons permit and I was confronted and fearing for my life, I would've done the same exact thing.

Actually in these kinds of situations, there's only two types of people running around with a gun, people who point it at other people and rely on looking tough to do the work... this doesn't actually work very well when they meet the other type of people who only pull guns out to shoot someone/something.
If they have the gun out and intended to shoot you, they would have already done it by that stage, hauling yours out just has that second where they try to decide if they're in it for real or just the 'I have a gun' t-shirt club.
By then, their ass is on the deck if you know what you're doing.

How can you feel sorry for someone that played with people's emotions? When you violate other people you lose your own rights. That guy that shot that kid had no way to know that they weren't going to attack him. He was outnumbered five to one. They held a gun and a bat to him. He obviously felt threatened. He reacted because they forced him to react. He didn't have ten minutes to sit and debate over good vs evil and right from wrong. He did what he felt he needed to do and I'm certainly not going to sit here and question him. Do you really think all carjackings that are committed are done so without injury to the victim? It's so easy to say what you would have done when it wasn't you that it happened to.

Lets put it this way would you rather hand over your car, or kill someone?

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Lets put it this way would you rather hand over your car, or kill someone?

America is all about the "culture of life", lest you forget

If I had my family in my car and a carjacking situation would ensue, I would kill someone, YES.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Lets put it this way would you rather hand over your car, or kill someone?

Assuming you are guaranteed that you wouldn't be killed in the process.

Making that assumption.

It's a no brainer then you idiot.

I had a concealed weapons permit, but I let it expire. I don't own a gun nor do I have any desire to own one. I do understand that sometimes things happen to people that changes how they approach the world. It's unfortunate that some people have to live that way, but maybe if there wasn't assholes out there pointing guns at people this world would be a different place to live in.

Would you agree that had that kid not ran around pointing a gun at people that he would still be alive today? How many times have you held a gun to someone making them fear for their life? How many people have you robbed at gunpoint for fun? How many people have you violated and possibly affected them to the point that they will never be the same? How many people have you threatened to kill? How many times have you had a gun pointed at your head not knowing if there was a bullet in there and not knowing the intentions of the assailant?

Sometimes people react in ways that we don't agree with and obviously this guy reacted in a way that this kid was not anticipating. Regardless of your thoughts on this you can't take away the fact that had he not been put in the position where he was made to react none of this would have happened. That kid was playing with his own life and the lives of his friends. People make bad decisions all of the time. I think it's safe to say that one bad decision lead to another. Neither was in the right morally, but you can't exactly get pissed at someone for pulling a gun on you if you're already pointing one at them.

Age should not be an issue here. An 18 year old can kill someone just as easily as a 53 year old can.

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike It's a no brainer then you idiot.

Not to everyone, some of these guys wouldn't even think about it. And who are you to be calling me an idiot?

quote:

Originally posted by trancebrat

I agree, in my first post I did say "well he put himself in that position". But it's just the casual way in which it's thought ok to hand out a 'death sentance' to someone. And aside from that the ilogic in escalating a dangerous situation that I don't understand.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Lets put it this way would you rather hand over your car, or kill someone?

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Making that assumption.

Sure. If I was 100% guaranteed not to die, then of course I would hand over my car. But answer me this: How am I to know for absolute 100% without the slightest shadow of a doubt certainty that I wont die when I have a gun pointed in my face? I'd fend for my life in that case, I'd do what I feel is best. If I have a concealed weapons permit and a gun is within easy reach then you bet your ass I'll shoot the guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish I agree, in my first post I did say "well he put himself in that position". But it's just the casual way in which it's thought ok to hand out a 'death sentance' to someone. And aside from that the ilogic in escalating a dangerous situation that I don't understand.

Casual? A gun is in your face and multiple other people around you with bats threatening to knock your skull off of your head and out of the ballpark for a homerun. The only thing racing through your head is the that you're about to die and you have to do something to defend yourself; it's what we call Darwinism. Survival is ingrained in all of us.

There's nothing casual about it, it doesn't happen to everybody every day. That's a rare position that someone will find themselves in and I'll be fucked if you're going to say that someone went about it casually.

So you genuinely belive with a gun in your face the best course of action is to attempt to pull you own?

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish So you genuinely belive with a gun in your face the best course of action is to attempt to pull you own?

It all depends on the situation.

Situation One
Some guy, in public, is threatening to shoot himself in the head. I grab my balls and slowly approach him, trying to gently talk him out of it. He quickly switches and points the gun at me. I apologize to him nicely, tell him I'm just trying to help him, keep my piece holstered and then back away.

Situation Two
A group of people with bats are slowly approaching me. I don't feel safe, so I reach in my car and grab my gun, holding it in my hand but just out of their view. They circle around my vehicle and demand I give them my car. Then the individual directly in front of me pulls a gun and threatens to shoot me. I can't be sure whether or not they'll actually kill me even if I give them my car. I feel as though I'm about to die. That's something I'm not about to let happen, and this is an act of self defense so I bring my weapon out and shoot the individual.

I would try and talk the fag out of robbing me then if he does not take that into consideration i will unleash some jet lee kung foo on their ass

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish So you genuinely belive with a gun in your face the best course of action is to attempt to pull you own?

Fight or flight. People will respond in the manner in which they are the most confident in their own success (survival). This appears to be a situation in which you would choose 'flight'. However, this man obviously felt that his life was threatened to the point that he needed to eliminate the threat, and felt confident in doing so. He chose 'fight'.

A gun is a powerful deterrent to would-be muggers. It can be very useful without being fired at all

quote:

Originally posted by trancebrat

my grandfather always said, "dont point a gun at someone unless you intend on killing them." i have always believed in this way. you really have no reason to point it at someone unless you intend on killing them.

quote:

Originally posted by UWM Fight or flight. People will respond in the manner in which they are the most confident in their own success (survival). This appears to be a situation in which you would choose 'flight'. However, this man obviously felt that his life was threatened to the point that he needed to eliminate the threat, and felt confident in doing so. He chose 'fight'.

+1...although i said this earlier....by fixing jakes post. on the first page. or maybe it was boomers post. i forget.

edit//ok bobby it was your post. lol

Yes you did, I was just expounding upon what you wrote, trying to explain this concept that he seems to be having a difficult time tackling.

quote:

Originally posted by UWM Yes you did, I was just expounding upon what you wrote, trying to explain this concept that he seems to be having a difficult time tackling.

true

quote:

Originally posted by UWM Got what he deserved.

+9,999

Back in the early 90's I knew of this kid who went to the same school as me. This idiot, along with a friend, tried to mug/rob a man with a BB gun.


What they didn't know is that the man they tried to rob happened to be carrying a loaded .38 revolver....

.....and he blew the kid away. Got what he deserved.


Burn in hell, Carl (or whatever the fuck his name was.) But don't take my parking spot, asshole.

^ that is the attitute I can't understand. Someone died.

People die every second.

That death was one of those in which someone actually deserved it.

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