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i know what you are saying. a dj's job is to please his/her crowd. but i think i would rather be an unbooked dj who plays what he wants, than a bloke who gets paid to play the tracks that whoever is on the dancefloor likes.

quote:

Originally posted by Tangil Definitely, once this happens track selection happens. Also Nem, was that the gig where you were warming up for pvd and got to have a good look at his set up? Care to elaborate on it all? Thanks

Yeah that was the night I was supposed to be, but got a call saying that he was bringing Col Hamilton with him (Nice bloke by the way) so didn't get to spin for the man. I have time for both PvD and his warm up guy no doubt.

PvD was doing a lot of cool tricks and stuff but nothing so out of it that I don't feel that I could have done something similar with decks although perhaps less things on the go.

What makes this interesting is that PvD might actually have been the wrong DJ for the club in my opinion. Playing there I have learnt that the crowd like it quite chunky. PvD did play some tracks like that and the crowd did start to go off on it, but he didn't up the stakes by following that and just slipped back into his zone.

His set up was laptop, midi keyboard but as stated before he didn't really use it too much but notably did use it on For An Angel when applying a filter effect.
One of the major problems was that his laptop was set up a little too far away from the decks, (I have photo of this on my phone, will try to post it) so he kept on disapearing from the decks and the main focal point of the night kept for a lot of the night was staring at a set of empty decks. Not the best move perhaps, but you work with what you get in this business and not his fault.

I can't fault the man for his mixing in terms of matching and he was using the CDJs with this time coded stuff. (Or at least that's what I thought he was doing).

You could definately tell that he was going back to stuff that he has prepared and worked out before hand, but then techno DJs will also have stuff they have worked out prior but will intermix these segments with random selections based on crowd response etc.

Without trying to hijack the thread with another Digital vs turntable/cdj. It is completely obvious to me at least, that the very essence of digital becomes more of a performace. The problem is that this works against the one thing that the DJ had in his/her favour, which was the ability to read the crowd.
It is my belief that both Armin and Ferry are more deserving of the #1 spot than PvD, as the latter are actually still doing what DJs do. Especially Ferry in my book.

It was actually a weird night and the crowd didn't actually kick off until the final DJ came on, was almost like PvD was the warm up. Sad, but I don't think he will be re-booked for this. Didn't fill the club to capacity either but that might just be a reflection of the state of trance at the moment (No pun intended). But I do see lesser names sell out and perform better than the really big guns on a constant. Perhaps it's a question of how much they want it.

Don't get me wrong, there are I'm sure people out ther who are going to understand and push the boundaries with laptop performance and will definately work the crowd reading aspect into it. Or I hope it will otherwise we will have a generation of clueless, self endulgant digital geeks as DJs and that will never help dance music.

Mind you probably the majority of the people in the club didn't know he was using a laptop or even give a shit about it. They probably just thought he was alright, nothing special.

Bit of a dispointment for me, but I had a feeling that would happen. I was also completely sober which may have played a large part in it, but was no different for Oakenfold, whom I really enjoyed.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 i know what you are saying. a dj's job is to please his/her crowd. but i think i would rather be an unbooked dj who plays what he wants, than a bloke who gets paid to play the tracks that whoever is on the dancefloor likes.

I think it's important to see the difference though between becoming a slave to it and giving the people what they want but your way. There will always be tracks that you like, that will fit a certain vibe that people are demanding (not vocally but with body language etc.) i.e. you can have your cake and eat it if you do it well.

Cheers
Nem

Yep I agree, reading the crowd doesn't mean chucking in anthem after anthem to please the masses.

And thanks Nem for the insight into the pvd party. Do you think that digital is taking an aspect of spontaneity away from the night because there is a lot more preparation involved? Sasha has said a few times that ableton has meant he spends a far greater amount of pre-preparing before gigs. I wonder if this entails that they have more of a 'routine set' and are unlikely to throw in a random song here and there to play a more tailored set to a certain crowd.

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 i know what you are saying. a dj's job is to please his/her crowd. but i think i would rather be an unbooked dj who plays what he wants, than a bloke who gets paid to play the tracks that whoever is on the dancefloor likes.

I completely agree. Give me a crowd that is open to EDM and I will give them a good time, but so many places the managers want you to play an hour of hip-hop, ect...

I tell them fuck off because I already have a good job and a good future outside of being a DJ.

I love that Montreal has such a kickass underground scene, because I have to be so fucking sick and play such good underground music if I even want to think about getting booked in the real electronic music scene.

quote:

Originally posted by Tangil Yep I agree, reading the crowd doesn't mean chucking in anthem after anthem to please the masses. And thanks Nem for the insight into the pvd party. Do you think that digital is taking an aspect of spontaneity away from the night because there is a lot more preparation involved? Sasha has said a few times that ableton has meant he spends a far greater amount of pre-preparing before gigs. I wonder if this entails that they have more of a 'routine set' and are unlikely to throw in a random song here and there to play a more tailored set to a certain crowd.

I think the thing is to understand that these guys are in a different league and are lucky enough to get away with it. When I saw Armin play I actually heard someone outside, "I can't believe I shook his hand". I thought to myself, come on, it's not like it's the Dali Lama, who by the way I actually met in India and is a hell of a lot more down to earth than a lot of DJs I could mention...

Back to the point though, people go to see the big names with completely expectations and are probably more geared up for a concert like performance and not to see a DJ work for example. And may not be disapointed as I was because I was hoping to see a DJ work.
I don't for example see Tiesto as a DJ in the same way anymore because he chose another route away from the clubs and focuses more on the arenas.

Whilst all the above will have their time in the sun, I think the long term survivor is the DJ and not the performer. A bit like a snake sheds it's skin, the more commercial and performance orientated DJs will fade in popularity and the core of what it's all about will still survive.

Keeping the budhist theme, I think you will find that the wheel will turn full circle. Patience grasshoppers...

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 a good edm dj plays what he wants to play. and waits for the crowds to follow. if they dont follow then play for your own enjoyment at hiome. never change your style/play tracks you wouldnt normally play for the crowd. thats what dj's in pop/chart/cheese clubs are paid to do.

But there's a fair amount of flexibility within that - you can quite easily stick to the genres you love, but then direct the set you play at the crowd, using the music you like as your arsenal. And that doesn't mean selling out by just playing all of your records you know will get a good reaction.


And for the people saying track selection is the most important thing - it totally isn't a black and white situation of a tune either being good or bad... the effect a track has depends on a) the people in the crowd b) the time of night/mood of the crowd etc and c) how its played... the first 2 come from reading the crowd, the 3rd comes from technical ability.

Although earlier in this thread people have said it isn't the case, you CAN make a crap track work in a set by being a bit creative. If a tune's got a wicked breakdown but the rest is shite, just use the breakdown in your set. If its been played to death and even the people who aren't really into the music are sick of it, just drop a little section in for a few seconds or generally try and do something different with it. If it's got a shit vocal, cut it out. If it's just a bit boring and goes on a bit, add something else over the top. If it's just complete shite through and through and turns out to be hilarious as a result, play it on that merit (if that's the kinda thing you go for). Obviously there are limits...

I'm not trying to say you should all go and play really crap records or anything lol, just that if you think about it very few records are actually shite through and through, so don't rest everything on "I must only play the best records in the world and I'll be an amazing DJ" -I'm also of course very much backing up Nem's statement of reading the crowd being oh-so-very important.

- pleasing the crowd?
- smooth mixing?
- track selection?
- advanced dj'ing

pleasing the crowd is always the goal but its how you do it thow.
anybody can transform one great song to another.its easy learn to beatmatch buy all the top tracks of the week and bam(oh that dj last night was so good)

to me the most important aspect of djing is pleasing a crowd but being a real artist.
its not smooth mixing its proper mixing and there is a difference.
taking songs and making them something more than they are.
i dont go to clubs anymore to dance i go there to watch the crowds!
and one thing i have learned is that songs get people jumping and great mixing gets them rock'n. you have to do things differently. dont play the song, play with the song. this is where you advanced dj'ing comes in. all you tricks whatever it may be scratching,slaming cuting, sampling, mash-ups whatever. set yourself apart from everyone else and be creative when you are out there. but you will have to know how to progress you sets but that goes back to track selection. and always play with the people you are performing for. a dj that reacts gets more reaction. you are an entertainer so entertain!

Re: Importance in DJ'ing

quote:

Originally posted by R.j. So, as a DJ, what do you feel is the most important aspect of it all? pleasing the crowd smooth mixing track selection

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox And for the people saying track selection is the most important thing - it totally isn't a black and white situation of a tune either being good or bad... the effect a track has depends on a) the people in the crowd b) the time of night/mood of the crowd etc and c) how its played... the first 2 come from reading the crowd, the 3rd comes from technical ability.

That pretty much sums up what I call track selection. What I'm saying is that the mixing doesn't matter, because it's just polishing, just like everything else involved.

I dont know if anyone else has mentioned this earlier, but i think the most important thing about DJing is ::drum roll::


Having Fun.

quote:

Originally posted by xenoaxe I dont know if anyone else has mentioned this earlier, but i think the most important thing about DJing is ::drum roll:: Having Fun.

it's important, hell yah!

For some strange reason, I mix better with a crowd, rather than just me, a single person or two listening...

weird..?

Re: Re: Importance in DJ'ing

LOL true

quote:

Originally posted by dark_Omens If the crowd is happy, the chances are that you have been playing decent tracks, and been mixing smoothly (or there is a drink special that night )

Re: Importance in DJ'ing

quote:

Originally posted by R.j. So, as a DJ, what do you feel is the most important aspect of it all? - track selection - smooth mixing - pleasing the crowd

A combo of these three.

quote:

Originally posted by Transfusion Doing a Jesus pose must be a part of each dj's set.

I like this guy hahaha

quote:

Originally posted by R.j. it's important, hell yah! For some strange reason, I mix better with a crowd, rather than just me, a single person or two listening... weird..?

I'm the opposite. Crowd's still give me the jitters every now and then... =(. Stage fright if you will...

The only thing to add which i believe explains why there are so many different opinions on this is because I really don't think we are all talking about the same "crowd".

If your version of the "crowd" is the hardcore experienced EDM lovers then smooth mixing and track selection will be most important.

If your version of "crowd" is drunken club hoppers all under 21, then smooth mixing and advanced DJ'ing mean nothing to them.

Then again if your crowd is full of EDM experts and other DJs then advanced DJ'ing and smooth transitions will mean everything and track selection will not be so important.

You also need to consider what mood the crowd is in when you are the DJ , it may not be talked about very much but what the crowd is "on" does influence the mood of the crowd, and that will play a role in what will matter when you DJ.

I think the whole concept of "pleasing the crowd" is really a superset of all the other aspects ( smooth transitions , track selection , etc ). So hence it should be on some level part of any set your doing.

quote:

If your version of "crowd" is drunken club hoppers all under 21, then smooth mixing and advanced DJ'ing mean nothing to them.

Very possibly, but you would be surprised. Reading the crowd is very important to them, but you have to realise that with drunk people you find that they run out of energy really quickly so you have to pace your set very differently.

quote:

If your version of the "crowd" is the hardcore experienced EDM lovers then smooth mixing and track selection will be most important.

You would be surprised how ropey your mixing can get before people start objecting as long as your track selection is spot on.

quote:

Then again if your crowd is full of EDM experts and other DJs then advanced DJ'ing and smooth transitions will mean everything and track selection will not be so important.

Nope, track selection would be paramount all the same, you just would have to raise your game on the other points too. And also accept that it doesn't matter what you do in those cases as some DJs like to trash you even if you blew the roof off the place. One thing I have learned is that you should play to the clubbers, if you start playing to the DJs you will make everyone else bored.

quote:

You also need to consider what mood the crowd is in when you are the DJ , it may not be talked about very much but what the crowd is "on" does influence the mood of the crowd, and that will play a role in what will matter when you DJ.

Most definately, this is a must. As I said, Drunk people run out of energy very quickly but recover pretty quick too.
GHB mongs will crash out and you wont see them for the resto of the night.
People on E's and MDMA will be the easiest to please and will have most energy.
People on Coke generally piss off to the toilets every 20 minutes and are really boring to play for as they generally tend to be more concerned about how great everyone thinks they are. Mostly associated with House though.

Reading the crowd is an integral part of what we do, however highly it is ranked or how it's percieved in terms of where it plays a part.

Appart from technical skills, harmonics etc. it is one of the things that sets great DJs appart from the masses.

A lot of it is down to know venues and also trusting promoters to know their venues so that you actually play at a club that will suite what you are about.

It's a deep subject though even if it's not rocket science.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

People on Coke generally piss off to the toilets every 20 minutes and are really boring to play for as they generally tend to be more concerned about how great everyone thinks they are. Mostly associated with House though

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 GHB mongs will crash out and you wont see them for the resto of the night.

What is a "GHB mong?"

Re: Importance in DJ'ing

quote:

Originally posted by R.j. So, as a DJ, what do you feel is the most important aspect of it all? - pleasing the crowd? - smooth mixing? - track selection? - advanced dj'ing (looping, effects, etc.)? - anything else I obviously missed

I don't think you can have any of these without the others. Blowing any one of these points can ruin an entire performance.

quote:

Originally posted by xenoaxe I dont know if anyone else has mentioned this earlier, but i think the most important thing about DJing is ::drum roll:: Having Fun.

Wise words my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by xenoaxe I dont know if anyone else has mentioned this earlier, but i think the most important thing about DJing is ::drum roll:: Having Fun.

I agree, but do it for 20 odd years and you are bound to have a night here and there where it just seems like any job and you would rather be at home or out with your mates.


Beatflux:
GHB is like a liquid version of mdma that is consumed with beverages, it also happens to be used in date rape crimes as it can have similar effects to rohypnol. Both variations are evil and have no place in the dance music industry (Not suggesting there is a place for any illeagal substance, but some have played a key part in it's development, like it or not). Turns you into a comatose zombie and you will most likely be ejected by the bouncers or even taken away in an ambulance.
GHB is evil kids, so stay well away.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 I agree, but do it for 20 odd years and you are bound to have a night here and there where it just seems like any job and you would rather be at home or out with your mates.

Well, next time you have a big gig and would rather be home, i'll fill in for ya.

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