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-- Since the The Surge® has failed, operation Arm the Insurgency and Baathists has begun
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| Originally posted by Q5echo i'm trying very hard not to get dragged back into this or getting into another stupid pissing contest, but i cant resist saying that NO ONE in the military or it's civilian masters (the Executive) has EVER said this conflict could be solved through warfighting alone. EVER! we, Americans, are capable of doing two things well. defending Freedom and establishing it. granted, we do one of those demonstrably better than the other, but they are as dependent one another right now as anytime. that is understood from the lowest E2 Private kicking in a door in Diyala to the President himself. |
Just when you thought 'The Surge' has failed! Well at least it's better than no progress at all which has been suggested in this thread.
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AP - Associated Press Updated: 10:32 p.m. ET June 29, 2007 Official: Half of Baghdad under control Commander says insurgents hamper efforts, fight with growing tenacity WASHINGTON - In the face of stiffening insurgent resistance, U.S. and Iraqi security forces now control about half of Baghdad, the American commander overseeing operations said Friday. Maj. Gen. Joseph F. Fil Jr., commander of Multi-National Division Baghdad, told reporters at the Pentagon that progress in securing the capital has been steady and that while he could use more U.S. troops he believes he has enough — with the recent arrival of reinforcements — to complete his mission. “Some wonder: Are we progressing fast enough? Are we ahead? Are we on track?” he said in a video teleconference from his headquarters in Baghdad. “This is a fight against extremists. It’s a fight to put power back into the hands of the average Iraqi citizens and to give them a vote and a voice in their own future, without intimidation or fear. I see progress, a steady progress, in every neighborhood that we’ve cleared and then established a full-time presence.” A reinforced U.S. troop presence has been conducting stepped-up security operations since the launch in mid-February of a new campaign designed to tamp down sectarian violence in Baghdad to a degree that the Iraqi government is able to begin functioning normally and moving toward political reconciliation. The top commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, is due to present a progress report to Congress in September. Forces 'disrupting' insurgents Fil said American and Iraqi security forces now control 48 percent to 49 percent of the 474 neighborhoods in Baghdad. That is up from 19 percent in April, he said. Two weeks ago his boss, Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, said about 40 percent of the city was under control. Fil defined “control” as “where we have our security forces there and we’re denying that space to enemy forces.” U.S. and Iraqi forces are conducting clearing operations in 36 percent of the capital’s neighborhoods — about the same percentage as in April, he said. In neighborhoods that are neither under control nor in the process of being cleared, coalition forces are “disrupting” insurgent forces, Fil said. He declined to predict how long it would take to get the entire capital under control. Fil said the degree of resistance by insurgents in some parts of Baghdad has been remarkable. “This is a skilled and determined enemy,” he said. “He’s ruthless. He’s got a thirst for blood like I’ve never seen anywhere in my life.” 'More sophisticated' At a separate news conference later, Defense Secretary Robert Gates echoed some of Fil’s remarks about the difficulty of subduing the insurgents who have chosen to fight rather than melt away. “We’re dealing with ... a smart, agile enemy who adjusts his tactics,” Gates said, with Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, at his side. He was referring in particular to the insurgents’ ability to kill U.S. troops with enormous homemade bombs often buried in roadways or hidden nearby. In the latest such attack, five of Fil’s soldiers were killed and several wounded in an unusually complex attack Thursday in the East Rasheed area of southern Baghdad. It began with the detonation of a deeply buried roadside bomb and was followed by small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire. “It was a more sophisticated attack in terms of the way they planned it,” Gates said without elaborating. “And we’re seeing some more of that” as U.S. forces press their offensive in and around Baghdad. Fil said US forces have encountered a “very strong” cell of al-Qaida fighters in the East Rasheed and Dora areas. Those are among several sectors in the capital where insurgents have chosen to make a stand, he said, and likely will remain a focus of intensive military action. “To be sure, the enemy is fighting back, hard, in some of these areas that we’ve taken away, and they continue to perpetuate violence against innocents in their efforts to keep sectarian fires fueled and undermine the efforts of the coalition and the Iraqi government,” he said. Their weapon of choice is the roadside bomb, which the military calls an improvised explosive device, or IED. Gates said he is pressing for faster production of a new military vehicle designed to provide better protection against roadside bombs, the leading killer of U.S. troops in Iraq. Gates said he is demanding an accelerated effort to field a mine-resistant armored vehicle, called the MRAP, and get it to Iraq in large numbers to replace the more vulnerable Humvee utility vehicle used by soldiers and Marines. It is so urgent, he said, that the first vehicles built will be flown to Iraq. “The way I have put it to everyone is that we have to look outside the normal bureaucratic way of doing things, and so does industry, because lives are at stake,” Gates said. “For every month we delay, scores of young Americans are going to die.” 'Arrows in our quiver' On Capitol Hill, leading Democrats said they plan to continue efforts to force a change in President Bush’s Iraq policy. “People are down on government for a lot of reasons, but the big reason is the war in Iraq,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. Three-fourths of those in a national CBS News survey said they think U.S. efforts in Iraq are going badly. Half said they think the American involvement in Iraq is creating more terrorists who are planning to attack the U.S., compared to one in five who think it is eliminating terrorists, said the poll released Friday. In July, the House and Senate will each vote on a proposal written by Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., that would order troop withdrawals within four months and set the goal of completing the pullout by April 2008. Under the bill, troops could remain in Iraq to target terrorists, train Iraqi security forces or protect U.S. diplomats. “We have many arrows in our quiver, and we are sharpening them,” said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19508672/ |
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| Originally posted by Q5echo we, Americans, are capable of doing two things well. defending Freedom and establishing it. |
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| Originally posted by stevieboy32808 Just when you thought 'The Surge' has failed! Well at least it's better than no progress at all which has been suggested in this thread. |
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| More Americans than ever before, 77 percent, say the war is going badly, up from 66 percent just two months ago. Nearly half, 47 percent, say it's going very badly. While the springtime surge in U.S. troops to Iraq is now complete, more Americans than ever are calling for U.S. forces to withdraw. Sixty-six percent say the number of U.S. troops in Iraq should be decreased, including 40 percent who want all U.S. troops removed. That's a 7-point increase since April. |
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| Fewer than one in five thinks that the troop increase is helping to improve the situation in Iraq, while about half think the war is actually creating more terrorists. |
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| The poll found a record number of Americans, 75 percent, believe the country is headed in the wrong direction. Only 19 percent think the U.S. is on the right track — the lowest number since CBS News first asked the question in 1983. |
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| The poll has bad news for President Bush, too. His job approval rating slipped to 27 percent, his lowest number ever in a CBS News poll — 3 points less than last month and 1 point below his previous low of 28 percent in January. His disapproval rating is also at an all-time high of 65 percent. |
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| Air Strikes Kill 17 Iraq Al Qaeda Fighters U.S. Helicopters Target Hardline Militants In Baqouba As Diyala Sweep Continues BAQOUBA, Iraq, June 22, 2007 (CBS/AP) Hundreds of U.S. and Iraqi troops, under cover of F-16s, fought their way into three neighborhoods of besieged Baqouba on Friday to help clear Diyala province of entrenched insurgents. To the north of the city, American helicopters killed 17 al Qaeda gunmen trying to sneak past a checkpoint. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007...tr=HOME_2965722 |
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| On 22 June the US military announced that its attack helicopters, armed with missiles, engaged and killed 17 al-Qaeda gunmen who had been trying to infiltrate the village of al-Khalis, north of Baquba, where operation "Arrowhead Ripper" had been under way for the previous three days. The item was duly carried by international news agencies and received widespread coverage, including on the BBC News website. But villagers in largely-Shia al-Khalis say that those who died had nothing to do with al-Qaeda. They say they were local village guards trying to protect the township from exactly the kind of attack by insurgents the US military says it foiled. They say that of 16 guards, 11 were killed and five others injured - two of them seriously - when US helicopters fired rockets at them and then strafed them with heavy machinegun fire. Minutes before the attack, they had been co-operating with an Iraqi police unit raiding a suspected insurgent hideout, the villagers said. They added that the guards, lightly armed with the AK47 assault rifles that are a feature of practically every home in Iraq, were essentially a local neighbourhood watch paid by the village to monitor the dangerous insurgent-ridden area to the immediate south-west at Arab Shawkeh and Hibhib, where the al-Qaeda leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed a year ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6239896.stm |
And BTW, why aren't the Iraqis feeling all warm and hopeful inside? With all this peace and serenity happening by our SURGE approach, you'd think they'd throw more flowers our way?:
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| A new national survey paints a devastating portrait of life in Iraq: widespread violence, torn lives, displaced families, emotional damage, collapsing services, an ever starker sectarian chasm -- and a draining away of the underlying optimism that once prevailed. Violence is the cause, its reach vast. Eighty percent of Iraqis report attacks nearby -- car bombs, snipers, kidnappings, armed forces fighting each other or abusing civilians. It's worst by far in the capital of Baghdad, but by no means confined there. The personal toll is enormous. More than half of Iraqis, 53 percent, have a close friend or relative who's been hurt or killed in the current violence. One in six says someone in their own household has been harmed. Eighty-six percent worry about a loved one being hurt; two-thirds worry deeply. Huge numbers limit their daily activities to minimize risk. Seven in 10 report multiple signs of traumatic stress. (snip).....IMPACT -- The impact is overwhelming: As violence has grown, measures of basic well-being have plummeted. In 2005, despite the difficulties in their country, 71 percent of Iraqis said their own lives were going well. Today that's been all but halved, to 39 percent. In 2005, two-thirds expected their lives to improve over the coming year. Now just 35 percent see better days ahead. Again, the sharpest deterioration is in Baghdad, where the number of Iraqis who say their own lives are going well has dropped by 51 points. But it's also down by 26 points in the rest of Iraq. And even outside of Baghdad, just 32 percent of Iraqis feel "very safe" where they live, compared with 60 percent a year and a half ago. In an equally dramatic reversal, majorities now give negative ratings to each of more than a dozen essential aspects of daily life -- jobs, schools, power and fuel supply, medical care and many more. In late 2005, for instance, 54 percent said their power supply was inadequate or nonexistent; now that's swelled to 88 percent. And in 2005 just 30 percent rated their economic situation negatively. Today that's more than doubled, to 64 percent. As conditions have sharply worsened, so have expectations for improvement -- an especially troubling result, since hopes for a better future can be the glue that holds a struggling society together. In 2004 and 2005 alike, for example, three-quarters of Iraqis expected improvements in the coming year in their security, schools, availability of jobs, medical care, crime protection, clean water and power supply. Today only about 30 to 45 percent still expect any of these to get any better. The survey's results are deeply distressing from an American perspective as well: The number of Iraqis who call it "acceptable" to attack U.S. and coalition forces, 17 percent in early 2004, has tripled to 51 percent now, led by near unanimity among Sunni Arabs. And 78 percent of Iraqis now oppose the presence of U.S. forces on their soil, though far fewer favor an immediate pullout. (snip).....Forty-two percent think their country is in a civil war; 24 percent more think one is likely. Barely more than four in 10 expect a better life for their children. Three in 10 say they'd leave Iraq if they could. (snip).....THE AMERICANS -- The United States gets much of the blame. As noted, in the most troubling result from an American perspective, the number of Iraqis who call it "acceptable" to attack U.S. or coalition forces has soared from 17 percent in early 2004 to 51 percent now. The main source of this antipathy is disaffected Sunni Arabs, the group that lost power with the overthrow of Saddam. Ninety-four percent of Sunni Arabs call attacks on U.S. forces acceptable. That compares with 35 percent of newly empowered Shiites (still a large number to endorse violence), vs. 7 percent of Kurds, who are far more favorably inclined toward the United States. Even among Shiites, eight in 10 disapprove of the way the United States and other coalition forces have carried out their responsibilities in Iraq. More than eight in 10 Shiites (as well as 97 percent of Sunni Arabs) oppose the presence of U.S. and other forces in their country. (Kurds, again, differ powerfully; 75 percent support the U.S. presence.) More than seven in 10 Shiites -- and nearly all Sunni Arabs -- think the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq is making security worse. Asked whom they blame most for the current violence in Iraq, far and away the most common answer -- voiced by four in 10 Iraqis -- is either U.S. and coalition forces (31 percent), or George W. Bush personally (nine percent). Al Qaeda and foreign jihadi fighters are cited by 18 percent (far more by Shiites and Kurds than by Sunnis). Indeed, among the occurrences of local violence measured in this poll, the top mention is "unnecessary violence against citizens by U.S. or coalition forces." Forty-four percent of Iraqis -- including 60 percent of Sunni Arabs -- report this as having occurred nearby. In another sign of finger-pointing -- and perhaps an expression of helplessness -- 59 percent of Iraqis say they think the United States controls things in Iraq. Fewer than half as many said so in 2005, 24 percent. Worsening views of U.S. and other forces in Iraq tracks the deterioration of conditions in the country. In the first ABC News poll in Iraq, in February 2004, 51 percent of Iraqis opposed the presence of U.S. forces on their soil. By November 2005 that jumped to 65 percent. Today, it's 78 percent. But how to proceed is complicated. Even as they express discontent with U.S. forces, Iraqis are equivocal about their departure -- a reasonable compunction, given the uncertainty of what might follow. Just over a third (35 percent) favor immediate U.S. withdrawal, peaking at 55 percent of Sunni Arabs -- fewer than might be expected given this group's nearly unanimous anti-Americanism. About four in 10 -- Sunni and Shiite alike -- say U.S. forces should remain until security is restored. "Leave now" sentiment is up, but not vastly, from 2005 -- 26 percent then, vs., again, 35 percent now. SURGE and RECONSTRUCTION -- Adding forces, in any case, is not seen as a solution. Fewer than three in 10 Iraqis think sending additional U.S. troops to Baghdad and Anbar -- the Bush "surge" -- will improve security in these areas. Among Baghdad residents themselves, 36 percent think the surge will help things. In Anbar, where the Sunni Arab opposition is rooted, essentially everyone thinks it will make security worse. These views relate to the overall lack of confidence in U.S. forces: Eighty-two percent of Iraqis say they're not confident in U.S. and U.K. forces -- 88 percent of Shiites as well as 97 percent of Sunni Arabs. (That falls to one-third of generally pro-U.S. Kurds.) Reconstruction is another complaint: Nationwide, 67 percent of Iraqis say postwar reconstruction efforts in their area have been ineffective or nonexistent. Sixty percent of Shiites say so; among Sunnis, it's 94 percent. (There's another huge difference in Iraqi Kurdistan, where 73 percent call reconstruction effective.) Interestingly, for all the negative changes in attitudes and experience, one result has remained essentially stable: Iraqis still divide, now by 48-52 percent, over whether the United States was right or wrong to invade in spring 2003. Here the sectarian divide is as sharp as ever. Seventy percent of Shiites and 83 percent of Kurds -- groups brutally suppressed by Saddam -- endorse the invasion. But among Sunni Arabs, protected and empowered during Saddam's 23-year reign, 98 percent say it was wrong. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2954716&page=1 |
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| Originally posted by MisterOpus1 While it's always nice to have some bit of good news from there, nothing in that story was predicted long ago. The pattern of our "surges" into enemy territory has always given the same results - the insurgents (i.e. the people that live there) simply melt away into the population and/or turn their attention elsewhere. You here this over and over and over. Sorry, but I won't be holding my breath about the wonders of this surge, and as it's painfully evident - the American public is tired as shit hearing it too: Again, you must forgive me for failing to have faith in yet another one of the neocon's lofty idealogical dream/plan in Iraq, this one trumped up by Fred Kagan of American Enterprise Institute. Their record on plans and predictions have not given me much faith, and I just can't see this one as being any different. |
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And besides, it's only a matter of time until Rupert Murdoch gets ahold of BBC and molds it to that good ol' "Fair and Balanced" type of news....... |
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| Originally posted by stevieboy32808 No, no, no, I'm well aware about the lack of progress on the ground. Although a lot of what you posted is reliant on surveys and public opinion, I was just trying to inject a little positivity. You can spare me the long articles, though. We all know about the generals who report back on the little progress they have achieved in Iraq only to be replaced with another general by yours truly, Mr. Bush. No survey can argue with that. Let's hope not. |
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| Originally posted by Lilith True, we'll just get a bunch of Korean kids to figure it out, Starcraft is a national sport there  |
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| Originally posted by atbell You mean like freedom was established in Vietnam, Korea, Chile, Indonesia, El Salvador, Cuba, and the Philippines? Or maybe you are thinking of the freedom that the setlers granted the indians as they colonized and civilized america. |
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