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-- Rushdie knighting sparks threats of suicide attacks
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Originally posted by HardTranceProd And I didn't even indicate my position on this issue. For all you know, I could agree or disagree with the Russian government. Never did I indicate my opinion, because that wasn't the point. The point - which you proved hilariously - is that I can arouse the same sensitivity and anger in you, just by a simple neutral comment (where I didn't even indicate my position), as a simple fiction novel can arouse in Muslims. Why? Is it because that all Muslims are "angry animals"? Would you consider yourself an "animal" for getting so riled on an issue that, for me, is a non-issue, but for you is very much an issue? That's the point: People tend to conveniently ignore what's in their own backyards, while blaming scapegoats. Look in the mirror and realize that you don't really respect state sovereignty, either. What's the difference between you and the Muslims you denounce for disrespecting individual or state rights??? If the internal matters of a sovereign nation like Estonia are a personal matter for you and you would like to dictate the existence of a statue, then at least be consistent and realize that other people can also feel as though they have the right to dictate or interfere. Whether that right is moral or immoral doesn't matter. They have that right just like you have your right.

No, you said a dumb, arrogant and selfish comment just to piss someone off. You dont have anything on Russian government meddling with Estonia's business. Russian government just shoved the tail between its ass, which sadly it had to do, and just reburied the hero soldiers in cemeteries in Russia. Oh well, I got over it. I just lost a lot of respect for Estonia that clearly decided to rewrite history and make people forget about Russian contribution to Estonia, how we saved their asses from Nazi annihilation. I mean, they write books that government endorses that genocide of Jews didnt happen! Oh well, freedom of speech and all. But now its in the past. The statue was part of a cemetery, there were soldiers buried under it!!! Its protected by GENEVA CONVENTIONS ON WAR BURIALS!!! DONT YOU KNOW THAT??? Geneva conventions also allows me to knight whomever the funk I want, and speak freely. So I am NOT a hypocrite, no double standards here. I am abiding and supporting Geneva convention, human rights, and freedom of speech. Kapish???

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I can knight whoemever the flying funk that I want

Erm no you can't, you can't knight anyone!

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WHY ARE WE LETTING THESE MUSLIM RADICALS TELL US WHAT TO DO? THEY CAN SUCK MY BALLS. SERIOUSLY.

Are we letting them tell us what to do?

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They DONT RESPECT OUR WAY OF LIFE AND OUR FREEDOMS BY TELLING US WHAT TO DO AND TRYING TO SHUT US UP.

And what exactly are you doing now?!

I think it's funny that the Russian gets into a rabid frenzy that some twats in Pakistan are in a tizz about Rushdie getting knighted, then goes mental cos some little country takes down a statue and insults Russia!



Oh the irony!

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Originally posted by George Smiley I think it's funny that the Russian gets into a rabid frenzy that some twats in Pakistan are in a tizz about Rushdie getting knighted, then goes mental cos some little country takes down a statue and insults Russia! Oh the irony!

Oh the irony indeed. Precisely what I was trying to show.

Human nature is the same in Russia, Pakistan, Britain, and all over the world, even if the religions may differ

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Originally posted by George Smiley I think it's funny that the Russian gets into a rabid frenzy that some twats in Pakistan are in a tizz about Rushdie getting knighted, then goes mental cos some little country takes down a statue and insults Russia! Oh the irony!

Well, no shit, cause you are an ignorant prick. My people suffered greatly and paid a dear price to save these people. And what do we get in return - insults, humiliation, rewriting of history, retribution, etc. I am not lying here. You are just ignoring the obvious truth.

No shit Sherlock, I cant knight anyone, but if I was in power to do so, I would knight anyone I want, so no need to be a wiseass, you should be able to know what I am trying to say, unless you want me to feed you with a spoon as well.

And for the last time, its not just a statue, its a cemetary for elite soldiers who died and the statue was built on top as a symbolic feature. It was one of the few and the most famous WW2 monument in Estonia. Now Estonian people can finally forget and regress the information. Smiley, you should attent their annual Nazi parades, eh? I think they also pay for airfare as well. Please take lots of pictures, OK?

You already voiced your opinion, so I am voicing mine - now we're even. Happy?

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Originally posted by Magnetonium insults, humiliation, rewriting of history, retribution, etc. I am not lying here. You are just ignoring the obvious truth.

Sorry, have you converted to Islam or are you still on about the silly statue?

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And for the last time, its not just a statue

But it's just a knighthood! And it was just a silly little story!

Oh right, yea, you're still on about the statue...

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Originally posted by George Smiley Sorry, have you converted to Islam or are you still on about the silly statue? But it's just a knighthood! And it was just a silly little story! Oh right, yea, you're still on about the statue...

Screw the Geneva Conventions while you are at it too! Cause thats what you've done along with Estonians. It wasnt just a statue. While you try to defend Palestinians, you have double standards and defend the fascist methods of Estonian government to rewrite history and deny fallen soldiers their dignity.

EDIT: There are similar monuments and cemeteries built to commemorate Allies' liberation of Western Europe, but they will never dare think of taking it down. Because Western media is going to go into a frenzy, and it will be portrayed as anti-US or anti-West methods. However, when Russian war monuments are torn down, well, who gives a shit, right? Western media has been pretty silent. EU is silent. US is silent. Obviously this is a political tool to tell Russia to jerk off. A spit in the face to Russia. Violation of Geneva Conventions. Whether you like to admit it, mock it or ignore it, its the truth.

And why the hell did you guys bring it up? Thats not what the thread is about. Going personal is pathetic of both of you. Piss poor pathetic.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd oh and one more example Suppose somebody in the West got knighted or honored on an official government level for writing a book denying the Holocaust. Can you imagine what would happen? There'd a huge otucry comparable to this one. In many Western countries, like Germany and Austria, that person would be jailed.

terrible analogy. you can't compare religious sensitivity with you know, actual real events.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd In the US or the UK, they probably wouldn't be jailed, but there'd be massive protests and public outcry. The sensibilities of the West are just as strong as Muslim sensibilities, only you have to know which buttons to push.

and there'd definitely be a fatwa for murder put out on the author by the pope. oh wait... the sensibilities might be the same, but the reactions certainly are not.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium And for the last time, its not just a statue, its a cemetary for elite soldiers who died and the statue was built on top as a symbolic feature. It was one of the few and the most famous WW2 monument in Estonia. ?

so, was it a monument to russians that were killed by germans, or murdered by other russians?

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Screw the Geneva Conventions while you are at it too! Cause thats what you've done along with Estonians. It wasnt just a statue. While you try to defend Palestinians, you have double standards and defend the fascist methods of Estonian government to rewrite history and deny fallen soldiers their dignity. EDIT: There are similar monuments and cemeteries built to commemorate Allies' liberation of Western Europe, but they will never dare think of taking it down. Because Western media is going to go into a frenzy, and it will be portrayed as anti-US or anti-West methods. However, when Russian war monuments are torn down, well, who gives a shit, right? Western media has been pretty silent. EU is silent. US is silent. Obviously this is a political tool to tell Russia to jerk off. A spit in the face to Russia. Violation of Geneva Conventions. Whether you like to admit it, mock it or ignore it, its the truth. And why the hell did you guys bring it up? Thats not what the thread is about. Going personal is pathetic of both of you. Piss poor pathetic.

Brilliant! Keep it coming! This is far easier than actually having to come up with an argument!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN so, was it a monument to russians that were killed by germans, or murdered by other russians?

It was a burial for a dozen hero-soldiers with a monument in the center of Tallinn to commemorate the Soviet troops who died liberating Estonia from Nazi occupation. I.e. killed by Nazi troops.

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Originally posted by Q5echo i see. i was about to say there is no plurality of Allah in Islam (i'm pretty sure) like there is the Trinity in Christianity and if that were true he would be horribly blasphemous in the eyes Islam.

Actually, Evangelicals are hard at work - after getting through to some Jews and got them to convert to Jews for Jesus, Muslims for Jesus was the next logical progression:

http://www.muslimsforjesus.org/

LMAO. bunch of fucking clowns, the lot of them.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd By the way: Please say this to the Russian government which is meddling in Estonia's affairs for removing a WW2 statue. But Russia feels it has the right to protest and interfere, just like these Muslims. And, because I think I can guess which side you are on in that debate my advice: quit bullshitting.

Oh snappppppppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



woooooooooow. w00t! that was a definite Zing-worthy post!

Whats wrong with you people ... bunch of stupid hypocrites. Idiots. No respect for the fallen soldiers or the Geneva conventions and then you guys DARE TELL ME ABOUT DEMOCRACY ISSUES IN RUSSIA? You guys dont have a dam idea about what democracy is. Even human rights. I am still waiting for the proof that Russia is meddling in Estonian affairs. Please, indulge me. Proof speaks louder than cheap words.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I fell off my chair laughing on this one. Wiseass, tell me how exactly are they meddling. Ummm, is it considered mmeddling, wiseass, when Russian government launches a formal protest with E.U. and UN over the illegal and pathetic dismantling of a WW2 dead soldiers monument that is protected under the post-WW2 agreeements? Wiseass, how exactly did they meddle when the statue still was taken down? Huh? In fact, it like dismantling your dad's grave who fought against bitter criminals and died a hero liberating someone else's land. The least they could do is leave it the way it is, to respect the people who saved they culture from extermination. But they spit in the face of the 250,000 dead Russian sooldiers who died liberating Estonia from Nazi regime. They died for nothing. We should have just stopped at the border and allowed Nazis to continue massacring them in concentration camps then, right? People like you make me sick. How would you feel if lets say France closed down and digged up the top monument that was built to commemorate your relative who lost his life liberating France from Nazis? Huh? My dad was right. We should have never chased the Nazis and let Ukrainians, Latvians, Estonians and Poles be butchered and assimilated into a Nazi machine. My grandfather died so that these Nazi supporters in Ukraine can march and claim how great Hitler was when Hitler massacred so many Ukrainians. Bastards.

dude, Estonia didn't want to be liberated from Germans. Quite to the contrary, quite a few of them were rather willing to be under German rule rather than Russian. Many of Estonian/Latvian/Lithuanian men joined German forces and fought against Russians. Same goes for Ukrainians. Russians were dispised by just about every republic they invaded. Imperialist ambitions of mother Russia have not ceized just because the rule went from Czarist to Bolshevik system. Same goes for Poles, Checz, Hungarian, Romanian, etc. Many of them hated Germans. But they hated Russians even more.

I'm not defending their actions, just putting historical perspective on the situation. I'm sure you know of all-Ukrainian/Latvian/Lithuanian waffen (german army) units, no?

just in case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_W...(1st_Ukrainian)

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Originally posted by emc^2 dude, Estonia didn't want to be liberated from Germans. Quite to the contrary, quite a few of them were rather willing to be under German rule rather than Russian. Many of Estonian/Latvian/Lithuanian men joined German forces and fought against Russians. Same goes for Ukrainians. Russians were dispised by just about every republic they invaded. Imperialist ambitions of mother Russia have not ceized just because the rule went from Czarist to Bolshevik system. Same goes for Poles, Checz, Hungarian, Romanian, etc. Many of them hated Germans. But they hated Russians even more. I'm not defending their actions, just putting historical perspective on the situation. I'm sure you know of all-Ukrainian/Latvian/Lithuanian waffen (german army) units, no? just in case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_W...(1st_Ukrainian)

OH YEAH? Havent you heard about Russian pro-Nazi armies either? How about General Andrey Vlasov, Pyotr Krasnov, Andrei Shkuro? The others were wiped out. Oh, there were thousands of Estonians who fought on the side of the Red Army. There were supporters of both Hitler and Stalin in Estonia and other countries, so what? General Rokossovskiy, himself Polish, was pro-Russian and a high ranking Soviet general, for example. Krushchev was Ukrainian. Does that make it OK to break Geneva Conventions and dig up and displace a war memorial? Not all, not a majority at least of people in Ukraine, Latvia, Poland, Estonia, etc. were against Soviets primarily. They were actually against BOTH Soviet and Nazi armies. But they preferred Soviets over Nazis. No wonder why in 1939 Soviet armies were greeted with little resistance in Eastern Poland while Germans battled their way through to take the western part of it. Over two-thirds of Ukrainians today live in Eastern Ukraine, which is predominantly Russian-speaking (same for Crimea).

Here, for example, how Russians have made up Ukraine for a long time now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine

given their conduct during the war, i find WW2 memorials for germans, italians, russians or japanese to be unimportant.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN given their conduct during the war, i find WW2 memorials for germans, italians, russians or japanese to be unimportant.

Yet another person who has no respect, appreciation and understanding of history. If it wasnt for the Soviet army, today the whole Europe and maybe the world would be speaking German and hailing Heil Hitler. So for sacrificing so much, for the sake of your liberty and nazi-free living, but you also join the cool haterz gang. Soviet armies destroyed, captured or disabled more Nazi divisions than all other threatres of the war combined. For that they deserve more than just a stinky monument that Estonia thought was too much for them to handle.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Yet another person who has no respect, appreciation and understanding of history. If it wasnt for the Soviet army, today the whole Europe and maybe the world would be speaking German and hailing Heil Hitler. So for sacrificing so much, for the sake of your liberty and nazi-free living, but you also join the cool haterz gang. Soviet armies destroyed, captured or disabled more Nazi divisions than all other threatres of the war combined. For that they deserve more than just a stinky monument that Estonia thought was too much for them to handle.

I am in no way part of a "cool haterz gang"

All I wanted was to prove a point, and I proved it with your help.

Too often, people don't put themselves in others' shoes. We all get angry when our dignity is on the line.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Yet another person who has no respect, appreciation and understanding of history. If it wasnt for the Soviet army, today the whole Europe and maybe the world would be speaking German and hailing Heil Hitler. So for sacrificing so much, for the sake of your liberty and nazi-free living, but you also join the cool haterz gang. Soviet armies destroyed, captured or disabled more Nazi divisions than all other threatres of the war combined. For that they deserve more than just a stinky monument that Estonia thought was too much for them to handle.

i have nothing but respect for the role the USSR played in defeating the nazis, little boy. i especially liked how they helped them seize poland in 39. that was a collossal sacrifice.

i am not underestimating the role the USSR played, but i'm not going to ignore the atrocities committed by them either. thus, as i said, i find shrines to the mentioned countries being removed do not interest me enough to be shocked or horrified. indeed, i could argue the nazi sacrifice against the red army stopped the soviets from swallowing all of europe. do they too deserve their shrines?

also, in case you're wondering, the soviets would have had a fucking tough time of it without their allies. so stop making it sound like the USSR won WW2 all by themselves.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i have nothing but respect for the role the USSR played in defeating the nazis, little boy. i especially liked how they helped them seize poland in 39. that was a collossal sacrifice. i am not underestimating the role the USSR played, but i'm not going to ignore the atrocities committed by them either. thus, as i said, i find shrines to the mentioned countries being removed do not interest me enough to be shocked or horrified. indeed, i could argue the nazi sacrifice against the red army stopped the soviets from swallowing all of europe. do they too deserve their shrines? also, in case you're wondering, the soviets would have had a fucking tough time of it without their allies. so stop making it sound like the USSR won WW2 all by themselves.

Without Allies, Soviet Union would have had a stalemate with Nazi Germany. The West just saved its own arse when they realized that Soviets would defeat Nazis so only in 1944 did they finally land in mainland Europe because they didnt want Soviets "liberating" entire Europe. Stalin begged and begged for early Western armies landing in Europe as early as 1942. But I do appreciate ALL Allies contribution in defeating Nazi terror machine. Though I am not very sympathetic with Stalin's terror either.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i have nothing but respect for the role the USSR played in defeating the nazis, little boy.

Too bad they didn't defeat you, nazis boy!

Can we not discuss the Eastern front. Just fyi the USSR would've eventually defeated Nazis germany even without the help of the allies or d-day. How can a nation of fifty million fight a nation of one hundred and fifty million in a nation that is 8.6million square miles?

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Without Allies, Soviet Union would have had a stalemate with Nazi Germany. The West just saved its own arse when they realized that Soviets would defeat Nazis so only in 1944 did they finally land in mainland Europe because they didnt want Soviets "liberating" entire Europe. Stalin begged and begged for early Western armies landing in Europe as early as 1942. But I do appreciate ALL Allies contribution in defeating Nazi terror machine. Though I am not very sympathetic with Stalin's terror either.

imo the "stalemate" you speak of was due, in part, to allied pressure.
-all the resources that the germans used in combatting the allies.
-the yanks kept the japanese from turning on siberia.
-the poms took on the brunt of the german airforce.
-hitler had to bail the italians out of africa.
-all the code-breaking the allies did.
-all the divisions hitler kept in western europe for possible allied assaults.

but i agree. i do appreciate ALL allied forces, but as you rightly say, the terror regime of the USSR was despicable. which is why i dont have issues when a former soviet satellite decides to remove a monument in their own country.

edit: metalgear, get a clue.

Wow... some of you guys are really FUCKING dense.

Think about it this way... in a time when Radical Islam (which isn't exactly a religion btw, it's an ideology and if you want to argue about that... go study before you open your mouths) is a controversial issue. Does it make sense for your precious "scholars" to anoint a man who wrote a book (back in the 80's I believe) based purely out of context against a religion that's 2ND in the world, based on the number of followers? FFS i could use a Bible in the same way... but would I get anointed for that?

I guess hating Islam is a fad nowadays for "intellects". LOL Don't expect any more replies from me. I prefer reading instead. May Allah/God be with you all.

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