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-- Can the Pioneer CDj 1000 make beat matching easier?
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quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag Crack open your 1200's and adjust the scale potentiometer if you want more (or less) resolution. I have the MK5's at the club set so that the range is more like +/- 7 (or a touch below that) over the range of the fader. You can even adjust the "zero point" so that it's non-symmetrical (+10/-6) if you really wanted to (I've thought about it since I have maybe ONE record in my collection that I ever play at anything less than -4). I have smallish fingers and pretty good dexterity, so I feel that I can make those very small adjustments like others have been saying. The ONLY way CDJ-type technology made me better was due to the ability to play music that's not out on vinyl and/or play music from digital promo pools that's not out yet on any format (see sig below). I've been playing with CD decks for a few years now, but I still feel like my mixes on vinyl are WAY tighter and smoother. I can throw down a record on the deck at the mixout point of the playing record, without having done ANY prior listening or beatmatching, and have it good to go within a couple measures. Even with a +/- .02 resolution, I still don't feel comfortable doing that on CD decks, and it definitely takes much longer to get matched up compared to vinyl.

Quality post mate, i never had the time to check out the schematics on my techs for extra knowledge but i was gonna do it in the future. Thanks alot for this post, someone make this a sticky

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 We should find out what the M5G's have for pitch accuracy, because they use digital pitch control. I bet it's .1%.

Sorry, no digital pitch control on 1200's, it's analog.

their latest turntable has a digital pitch mechanism, i'm sure its not the same technology as in a cdj thats for sure

edit-but the electrical signal is still analog

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Listen to old mixes by really renowned DJ's, they drift on TT's. If they are so super precise and perfect, why aren't they making perfect mixes?

A) old recording technology

- early 90's PC sequencing SUCKED, so it wouldn't be unheard of for a track to drift because of the sequencer itself (or bogging down the MIDI pipeline causing inaccuracies)

- some early tracks were done on reel to reel tape. I'm not talking about portastudios here, but about 1" or 2" tape machines running at very high speeds like 30 inches/sec (these machines were often running in the 5 or 6 digit price range). There could be fluctuation in those motors driving the reels that could put a drift in a track.

B) pressing plant variations

- Old vinyl cutters were known to have some drift in them. If the original pressing plate drifted while in production, then every record pressed from that plate would have drift in it. Before dance music and accurate beat matching came into the picture, these old pressing plants didn't really need to be as accurate as they are today.

- Even newer plants are known to still have some drift in them (and this might even be why a track in the studio was a 128 BPM but the plate cutting speed might have been calibrated a touch differently, making the track say, 128.1 BPM). I won't name the label, but a series of records from said label all seemed to have a slight drift at about the same time in the record. If they indeed used the same plant and/or machine, then that machine wasn't calibrated properly.

- Even something as new as the test-tone records for Rane's Serato Scratch had a drift in the first batch of records (per Rane's website)! Sure, they had a way to compensate for that until a new batch was made, but it just goes to show that the pressing plants aren't always 100% accurate.

C) the DJ's themselves

- maybe they had a bad session in the studio and the label ran out of money to do another take, so they went with what they had recorded.

- maybe that live mix was off because the DJ quite possibly had too much to drink during his set (I'm sure this doesn't happen often... LOL)

- maybe they were f'ing tired from massive jet lag from travelling

- maybe they just simply weren't as good then as they are now





All in all, there are a TON of factors here, and I'd say there's about a 2% chance it was the TT's.

quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda their latest turntable has a digital pitch mechanism, i'm sure its not the same technology as in a cdj thats for sure edit-but the electrical signal is still analog

I was working in a DJ gear shop when the MK5's came out, and I don't remember anything about a digital pitch mechanism. I can't see any reason why they would even WANT to put a digital pitch control on there, to be honest.

quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda /end thread again i win

what?

quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda Quality post mate, i never had the time to check out the schematics on my techs for extra knowledge but i was gonna do it in the future. Thanks alot for this post, someone make this a sticky

You don't really need a schematic to do it, but it helps to know which potentiometer to adjust (I don't remember if they are labeled or not). When ya find the scale pot, put your fader up to +6 and see if the dots hold still. adjust the scale pot until they do. Double check the zero point and -3.3 to make sure it's calibrated to factory specs. You may need to make a zero point adjustment like I did on my MK2's (moving it out of the center detent quartz locked position make the pitch jump like a mofo at first), but with the MK3's and beyond, it may not be as critical).

the final answer

let's ask another question...

Q: What CAN make beat matching easier?

A: PRACTICING!!!

/end thread now

excellent ownage by maytag

here's a link to the M5G

the pitch movement is actually computerized

There's no latency waiting for a TT motor to catch up to the pitch changes? It's WAY higher than changing the pitch setting in a DSP... by orders of magnitude.

Is that your mom calling?

quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda how, prove it Every CD player that was ever made by man or machine has Latency, proven fact. /end thread again i win

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 There's no latency waiting for a TT motor to catch up to the pitch changes? It's WAY higher than changing the pitch setting in a DSP... by orders of magnitude. Is that your mom calling?

yes there is but the latency is less than the cdj

hell, with the cdj1000 you have double latency (including digital wise) just cliking play and for the source to reach your head phones is def triple the length of a analogue tech 12

Haha, yeah it really bothers me. I always have to wait to hear the sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda yes there is but the latency is less than the cdj hell, with the cdj1000 you have double latency (including digital wise) just cliking play and for the source to reach your head phones is def triple the length of a analogue tech 12

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Haha, yeah it really bothers me. I always have to wait to hear the sound.

really? i thought i was the only one who noticed

I can hear to the micro second. Pretty remarkable really.

quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda really? i thought i was the only one who noticed

can i just say that making adjustments to pitch (minor pitch bending adjustments) is way easier on a turntable and the pitch fader on all cd decks is way too loose...wtf why is it like that...the technics pitch slider is perfect!!!

Yes but it is easier to pitch bend with the jog wheel than to learn how to ride the pitch on turntables. It took me years to refine my pitch riding skills, but it only took me five minutes to learn how to use the jog wheel.

quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda excellent ownage by maytag here's a link to the M5G the pitch movement is actually computerized

I can't find nor have I heard of the pitch fader itself being computerized, but it would not surprise me if the switch for the two ranges (+/- 8 and +/- 16) on the M5G was somehow computerized. I'd be will to bet a large chunk of $$$ that the faders aren't computerized (M5 and M5G) but the range switch on the M5G is. I get less than 8 results on google when searching about it, and zero mention of it on the Panasonic/Technics site.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Yes but it is easier to pitch bend with the jog wheel than to learn how to ride the pitch on turntables. It took me years to refine my pitch riding skills, but it only took me five minutes to learn how to use the jog wheel.

While on the subject of making your beat matching better, here's one of the two biggest tips I got that made HUGE improvements in my beat matching skills:

DON'T TOUCH THE PLATTER, SPINDLE, OR RECORD!!!

Using ALL pitch fader and making minute adjustments made beatmatching sooooo much quicker and tighter it's not even funny. I can pretty much do the same thing with CD decks now (primarily use Denon S3500's) until I get within .1%, where I do use the pitch bend to make the same type of adjustments I would riding the pitch fader.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Yes but it is easier to pitch bend with the jog wheel than to learn how to ride the pitch on turntables. It took me years to refine my pitch riding skills, but it only took me five minutes to learn how to use the jog wheel.

+1

I remember when I first used CDJs I kept trying to ride the pitch with disastrous results.

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag .....I get less than 8 results on google when searching about it, and zero mention of it on the Panasonic/Technics site.

thats because you're probably searching for the wrong key words. Use digital rather than 'computerized'!!

Computerized........... hahahaha!

Jarv

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister thats because you're probably searching for the wrong key words. Use digital rather than 'computerized'!! Computerized........... hahahaha!

Well that's 1983 type terminology, and it's likely the same type of technology used in modernizing analogue synthesizers around that time. Early synths used VCO's (voltage controlled oscillators) for sound sources, but in the early 80's many manufacturers started using DCO's (digitally controlled oscillators). The same oscillator design was used, but the DCO was nothing more than a VCO with digital control to maintain the pitch stability (DCVCO is probably the proper terminology).

I'm guessing this is the same thing that's being done here, adding a digital control so that the pitch fader on every M5G is exactly the same, and that when you put it at +6, the strobe lights indicating +6 will not move. Does anyone here have M5G's the see if this is the case??? I'm curious to know that and/or if the adjustment controls inside the MK2's and M3D's are also in the M5G's.

This is NOT a feature on M5's, just M5G's, and I haven't played on M5G's in almost a year...

lol i would learn beat matching so wouldent have to waist that much money on those cdjs

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag While on the subject of making your beat matching better, here's one of the two biggest tips I got that made HUGE improvements in my beat matching skills: DON'T TOUCH THE PLATTER, SPINDLE, OR RECORD!!! Using ALL pitch fader and making minute adjustments made beatmatching sooooo much quicker and tighter it's not even funny. I can pretty much do the same thing with CD decks now (primarily use Denon S3500's) until I get within .1%, where I do use the pitch bend to make the same type of adjustments I would riding the pitch fader.

So do the same with any cd players?

I don't. I ride the pitch on vinyl.

With my CDJ's, I ride the pitch to get really close. Small adjustments with the platter.

Touching the platter with vinyl usually leads to way too big of a correction for me.

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway So do the same with any cd players?

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