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quote:

Originally posted by Lilith For what its worth...

Second time I've said this now - all you (and others in other threads) have done so far is make (often false imo) observations and say what UK Muslims should do/be like. Well that's great. I personally think Muslims shouldn't be terrorists, I have written to Gordon Brown to let him know my excellent plan for solving the problem of British-born Islamic terrorists and I fully expect him to implement some kind of "Muslim's shouldn't be terrorists" policy in the coming few weeks. Then there will be no more terrorist attacks in the UK (I'll probably receive some kind of Knighthood but don't worry, I'll mention you in my speech!)

Ok, sorry for the sarcasm but sometimes I just love being a twat...

Anyway, my point is, it's all very well stating what you think Muslims should do and how they should act (despite your views being formed by only a tiny fraction of UK Muslims) but the problem is, how do we get them to do it? That's what I want you to tell me. I also want you to tell me what it is exactly you think Muslims should be doing. Should the areas they live in be emancipated with white "real" British people? Should they be forced to consume large amounts of alcohol against their religion? Should they attend football matches every saturday afternoon? Should their females get pregnant before they are 15?

What exactly are Muslims doing that you don't want them to do, and what exactly do you want them to do to make them more integrated?

And tell me how you would go about coercing Muslims to do the above...

Which part of-

quote:

All they've done is retreat into secular communities which haven't exactly helped their public image when a small amount of their members of those openly pursue vendettas from the country they came from. I mean really, if you can't tolerate the country you migrate too, then it doesn't make sense to actually go there in the first place and even less sense to continue that line of social intolerance once you get there!

Was too subtle for you to notice?

It's getting too late for this so I'm going to bed, if you really want to have some kind of blow by blow solution from me (you probably wouldn't like my rates which make solicitors look cheap by comparison) and I'd like to hear your thoughts on social integration of the muslim minority which doesn't involve them killing their adopted country's citizens.

You're out there banging the Labour drum for fun and profit these days, surely some of the slime ideas must have rubbed off on you by now to formulate at least a token opinion on the matter. I'm just a nasty ex-pat real estate developer living in the colonies after all...

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith social integration of the muslim minority which doesn't involve them killing their adopted country's citizens

That's your problem. You view all the UK's Muslims as one harmonious group. Some Muslims committed acts of terrorism so you think the rest are the same.

I think you need to get out of thinking like that cos it's not useful to the debate cos it simply is not true. The VAST majority (and I mean 99.99999999%) of UK Muslims have nothing to do with terrorism and oppose it like any sane person would.

The problem is not the Muslim community as a whole but at tiny fraction of them that feel alienated from the society they live in and are striving for some kind of meaning to their lives. They are especially vulnerable to the brainwashing of (often foreign) radical Imams.

Views like yours, that all Muslims are terrorists in waiting, only adds to this problem...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Not quite sure what that mumbling in the first sentence was supposed to mean but you seem to be suggesting that these terrorists only have theological motivations for mounting these attacks, and no political motivation - is that what you think?

I think she met, you do not hear these dogs screaming out FREE TIBET!! When they blow themselves up. You do not here them shouting "No Wal-Mart in my town!!" No, what do you hear is..... ALLAH is Great!! Did the IRA, ETA or other terrorist organizations that we know of scream Allah?? No sir, they did not because the IRA, ETA and others were based on political motivations. They were civilized, they called in Not these dogs. They base their motives off of a Myth........ oh sure they throw in Palestine and so forth. But their view of you, me and every one that does not believe in their sick, ass back wards interpretation of that myth, killing as many inocents is looked at as if "its a good thing." all in the name of their god.

The day to day Muslim that just wants to live and raise a family needs to help root this growing trend of hate and death that not only has infested the down trodden, but has taken roots in the educated; as in the example of the Dr's of this failed attack. What this is showing is that due to their isolated view that the rest of the world is evil, the new immigrant does not have the chance to become a part of their new country, and by doing so, the flood gates are opened to the real evil that is radical islam....

We as the new hosts need to also not allow these people to become isolated, programs and mandatory classes should be given to new comers, if they refuse to take the courses then they are not allowed. The Country also needs to make every effort for these courses are taught with all the respect.

Why did the UK not get suicide bombed following/during the 1990/91 Gulf War?

Why do you talk about "immigrants" when these people were born in the UK?

If Political Islam is not "politically" motivated, then why is it called POLITICAL Islam?

Do you even know what Political Islam is? And the history of it?

The fact that you don't seem to have a clue about, or an answer to, Islamic terrorism begs the question why I should listen to any of your opinions.

You have also failed to answer the question I have asked on a number of occasions now - what do you propose we do to deal with the problem of home-grown Islamic militancy?

You have told me what the UK should do with new immigrants (funnily enough this is what the UK is already doing, but I wouldn't expect you to have know that), but new immigrants aren't the problem - home-grown radicals are the problem, now tell me what we are supposed to do about them...

Well I kinda agree with both of you. George I agree they are politically motivated, they want the UK to be Muslim.

And Lilith I agree that (if I get you right, and has been stated by many in the UK) "multi-culturism has failed" to use another term.

I would also say that just saying "the majority of Muslims are against it though" is underestimating the gulf between the Muslim society and the rest of us.

Some quotes:

quote:

In the survey of 1,003 Muslims by the polling company Populus through internet and telephone questionnaires, nearly 60% said they would prefer to live under British law, while 37% of 16 to 24-year-olds said they would prefer sharia law

...

quote:

Nearly a third of 16 to 24-year-olds believed that those converting to another religion should be executed

>LINK(Guardian)<

quote:

One in eight young Muslims said they admired groups such as al-Qa'eda that "are prepared to fight the West"

>LINK(Telegraph)<

Now I'm all for integration and believe you can have any religion you want but... those 1 in 8 if they are found to preach hate should be treated just like any racist who does the same.

I think to an extent the damage is done the demographic shows younger Muslims are the worst it can only snowball. How do we solve it? Who knows government can't really affect change, they are religion and media driven.

I mean British people have tried to integrate them look at the outcry over the "racism" in Big Brother against Shilpa whatever her name (don't watch it..) is. I think we should start asking for a little give rather than take from them. A bit of real support from their leaders, no caveats. A bit of conformance to our values, I mean they even run their own "courts" now!

All that is going to happen (as it is already) is a reaction against them by non-muslims. They will lead themselfs into segregation if they arn't careful.

Well I do think they would like the UK to be Muslim (just like any religious person would like the country they reside in to be governed the way their religion says a country should be governed) but I think there is a more apparent and immediate political aim and that is to change British foreign policy.

As for the 1/8 that admire groups like al-Qaida. It doesn't actually say they themselves are prepared to suicide bomb the UK and I suspect the vast majority of those 1/8 would not be prepared to do that. The reason I say that is if you look back during the 70s, during the "golden age" of international terrorism, look at the admiration the youth of the time had for the Marxist terrorist groups such as the PLO, IRA, Red Hand Faction, Beider Meinhof, etc. They all romanticised about those groups as fighting for what they believed in, but the vast majority would never have actually gone and joined them. It's something that affects the youth. Those youth with political ideas (like students and, hey, all of us on here) tend to rebel against the status quo and the elite that run things. That's why they fantasised and "agreed" with the Marxist terrorist groups and I suspect that is the same reason those in the Guardian poll gave the answers they did.

The problem we need to overcome is to make the ideology and methods of Political Islam unattractive and yes, in a large part that will have to come from the leaders of these Islamic communities in the UK. But they are limited in what they can achieve. Their job is to make their point of view more attractive than the Jihadists. But when the UK bombs a Middle Eastern country for what is seen as dubious reasons, when the UK is seen as favouring Israel over the Palestinians and when "normal" British citizens are seen to be against Muslims (as is the prevalent view by a lot of members on this forum) then you can see that they face an impossible task to convince the Muslim youth attracted by Political Islam's message that their moderate view is correct, and the Jihadists who try to brainwash them have such an easy task the way things are.

So what is the solution? Well we are obviously in a mess. We cannot alter the fact that we invaded Iraq, it's done. But I did ask a question a number of times on this forum: why did the UK not get suicide bombed following the Gulf War of 1990/91? The answer is simple. it is because it was seen by the world as being a just war. The Afghanistan War, following 9/11 was seen by the world in a similar light. So one solution in future conflicts against an Islamic country (ANY country) is to make damn sure it is a just conflict and that it is supported by the international community. Next obviously we need to devote more effort to a more even handed approach to the Israel/Palestine conflict as this is a major motivator to radical Islamists. Currently we are seen as taking the American view and favouring Israel (altho I would tend to disagree but then the UK has done nothing to suggest otherwise). We need to support the EU fully and put pressure on Israel as much as we have on the Palestinians to resolve the conflict. Then finally we need to do something to counter this Islamophobia that drives a wedge between the "normal" UK citizens and the British Muslims. Maybe it's not the Muslims that need to learn the British way of life, but the British that need to learn about British Muslims in the UK?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley That's your problem. You view all the UK's Muslims as one harmonious group. Some Muslims committed acts of terrorism so you think the rest are the same. I think you need to get out of thinking like that cos it's not useful to the debate cos it simply is not true. The VAST majority (and I mean 99.99999999%) of UK Muslims have nothing to do with terrorism and oppose it like any sane person would. The problem is not the Muslim community as a whole but at tiny fraction of them that feel alienated from the society they live in and are striving for some kind of meaning to their lives. They are especially vulnerable to the brainwashing of (often foreign) radical Imams. Views like yours, that all Muslims are terrorists in waiting, only adds to this problem...

Actually views like hers are shared by a lot of people that question why, after decades of 'assimulation', all the assurances made by the Muslim community sound like lip service and people are tired of it. Why is it such a burden in asking to help in controlling your own religion (or at least HELPING).

Even in North America, CAIR's own membership has fallen to a few thousand after 9/11 because even their own membership is sick and tired of the lipservice.
There is a lot of talking with no decisive, quantifiable solutions coming from that group (CAIR) in particular and until then, they're going to be continually singled out until then.

There is a huge disconnect between what people on the outside of the Muslim community are being told and actual things happening within the Muslim community when it comes to dealing with the radicals.
It's pretty sad when we can expect 'denial of conduct' letters coming out like clockwork with absolutely no discernible solutions or involvement.
That's not to say they shouldn't be making public denouncements however it's really getting tired and moot; people want action, not talk.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r people want action, not talk.

But I don't understand what exactly you want Muslim leaders or Western governments to do?

Do you want Muslim leaders to grass on radical Muslims and shop them to the police? The problem with that is one these moderate Muslim leaders will then be looked on suspiciously and two you assume that moderate Muslim leaders actually have the knowledge of these secretive groups. What else do you want them to do? Condemn these attacks more than they are already? Do you want them to be more convincing when spreading their moderate vision of Islam? As I said above that is an almost impossible task to combat the Jihadist's message when confronted with the actions of the West against Muslim countries. Tell me what else you want Muslim leaders to do and how they would go about it cos to be honest mate, I'm stumped, I can't work out what you and everyone else wants them to do that they are not doing already...

As for Western governments, what do you recommend they do to counter this threat? Do you think they should pursue a more ethical foreign policy as I suggested above? Do you even think the West's policy towards the Middle East is even a contributing factor to this home-grown threat? Or Israel and Palestine? Do you think the government should force British Muslims to live in white neighbourhoods? Should British Muslims be forced to attend some kind of British citizenship classes to teach them how to be "proper" British citizens? Do you think British Muslims should be expelled from the UK?

Please tell me in your next post what you want Muslim leaders to do and what you want the British government to do to counter this threat...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Actually views like hers are shared by a lot of people that question why

Yea well most people only learn about Islamic terrorism when they switch on the news or read some agenda ridden tabloid so you'll have to forgive me if I don't pay much attention to what "a lot of people" think and stick to my own researched and educated opinions thank you very much...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley But I don't understand what exactly you want Muslim leaders or Western governments to do? Do you want Muslim leaders to grass on radical Muslims and shop them to the police? The problem with that is one these moderate Muslim leaders will then be looked on suspiciously and two you assume that moderate Muslim leaders actually have the knowledge of these secretive groups. What else do you want them to do? Condemn these attacks more than they are already? Do you want them to be more convincing when spreading their moderate vision of Islam? As I said above that is an almost impossible task to combat the Jihadist's message when confronted with the actions of the West against Muslim countries. Tell me what else you want Muslim leaders to do and how they would go about it cos to be honest mate, I'm stumped, I can't work out what you and everyone else wants them to do that they are not doing already...

I'm not following.
Do radicals pray at different mosques than their moderates or something?
Most of the time the moderates are too worried about the backlash and threats from their radical conterparts to consider 'snitching'; they need to grow a backbone.
Especially the ones in 'The West' where rule of law will supersede religious zealotism.

I'll comment more when I get home...

quote:

As for Western governments, what do you recommend they do to counter this threat? Do you think they should pursue a more ethical foreign policy as I suggested above? Do you even think the West's policy towards the Middle East is even a contributing factor to this home-grown threat? Or Israel and Palestine? Do you think the government should force British Muslims to live in white neighbourhoods? Should British Muslims be forced to attend some kind of British citizenship classes to teach them how to be "proper" British citizens? Do you think British Muslims should be expelled from the UK? Please tell me in your next post what you want Muslim leaders to do and what you want the British government to do to counter this threat...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Yea well most people only learn about Islamic terrorism when they switch on the news or read some agenda ridden tabloid so you'll have to forgive me if I don't pay much attention to what "a lot of people" think and stick to my own researched and educated opinions thank you very much...

Fine, but you defeat your own argument with your very own, ass-u-me...

Religious law is a crock George, we've seen it bring nothing but misery to entire countries when the Catholics held sway over Europe and no one wants to go back to that where the state is ruled from afar by people so distanced from society they have no concept of what a normal person endures.
Islamic law isn't any better than the Catholics in the 12th century, I'd like to think we've come a bit further than burning people for heresy and stoning people for adultery.

I mean even if 1/8th of those 2nd generation are a fudging of statistics down to 1/16th, it's still a large amount and made even more shocking by the fact that it is the 2nd gen. I fully expect 1st gen migrants to have problems integrating into a new society because it's a new language a lot of the time which is hard to learn as an adult and a whole new culture which is alien to all you've been brought up with.
But the 2nd gen are just like you, young and educated in the same schools and legally given the same rights as anyone else, being the UK there's an even larger lump of P-C enforcement on top just to really make sure.

quote:

Those youth with political ideas (like students and, hey, all of us on here) tend to rebel against the status quo and the elite that run things.

Speak for yourself and don't coat me with that brush, I might be pragmatically boring in saying that, but it's just how it is.

Of course the 'Joe Average UK Citizen' favours Israel, take a walk down an Israeli street in your normal western attire and just note how much alike and boringly similar you are. There's a lot about Israel I don't particularly like or agree with, but they're not exactly going to call for my head on a stick or force me to wear the cultural dress code of the region!
Why should young muslims in the UK feel so vilified that they are willing to listen to some vengeful old fool of a cleric somewhere to give them that particular meaning to their lives?
What is so fundamentally wrong with the UK's own Islamic community that they can't provide successful role models which will help people find a place and sort out how they want to lead their life without killing people as a worthy resort to disagreement?

I've seen people die for all kinds of dumb things, beaten and kicked to death and stacked three deep on a roadside and left to rot for the nationalisation of farmland, shot in the face point blank in front of their children with a 9mm at the traffic lights for their car and mobile phone, literally torn apart by angry mobs or a tyre filled with petrol lit over their upper body for talking to a policeman.
But by far, the most profoundly idiotic thing when circumstances in a country dictate that there are plenty of civilised ways of resolving a disagreement, like the UK has.
That people insist on killing in the name of god and in the name of religious law. If it happens once to an individual you could write it off as being an anomaly, a freakish event perpetrated by a sick mind but we both know that it's more than that.

When you have groups committing premeditated homicide over it?
That is a serious problem which needs to be stamped out very quickly because you risk anarchy at all levels of society, there is only so much you can do to prevent retaliatory attacks by people, however misguided or whatever, who will take their own form of justice into their own hands.
Then we're going to have a really big problem which will only serve to alienate and vilify entire communities who most likely and undeservedly get treated terribly by their neighbours.
And currently, they aren't helping the cause by doing nothing as members, however marginal they may be wage a war in their own backyards over nothing more than a petty desire to kill. This is a bit more than just political agitation by miscreant students, it takes a lot to make these otherwise normal people decide that they're going to just off an airport full of non-political citizens going about their business.

quote:

Maybe it's not the Muslims that need to learn the British way of life, but the British that need to learn about British Muslims in the UK?

I thought it was a fairly fundamental part of UK education from an early age that you just don't go around offing people because you don't like them or the people who are in government!
For all your sympathies (and to some degree my own), wake up to the fact that there will be no kindly word to leave the building if someone's going to drop the hammer there. Believer, sympathiser, non-believer and hater alike, are just targets and the people behind this kind of activity have their conscience eased by the fact that they truly do believe they're doing themselves a favour by taking you out of this world.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I'm not following. Do radicals pray at different mosques than their moderates or something?

Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Religious law is a crock George, we've seen it bring nothing but misery to entire countries when the Catholics held sway over Europe and no one wants to go back to that where the state is ruled from afar by people so distanced from society they have no concept of what a normal person endures. Islamic law isn't any better than the Catholics in the 12th century, I'd like to think we've come a bit further than burning people for heresy and stoning people for adultery. I mean even if 1/8th of those 2nd generation are a fudging of statistics down to 1/16th, it's still a large amount and made even more shocking by the fact that it is the 2nd gen. I fully expect 1st gen migrants to have problems integrating into a new society because it's a new language a lot of the time which is hard to learn as an adult and a whole new culture which is alien to all you've been brought up with. But the 2nd gen are just like you, young and educated in the same schools and legally given the same rights as anyone else, being the UK there's an even larger lump of P-C enforcement on top just to really make sure. Speak for yourself and don't coat me with that brush, I might be pragmatically boring in saying that, but it's just how it is. Of course the 'Joe Average UK Citizen' favours Israel, take a walk down an Israeli street in your normal western attire and just note how much alike and boringly similar you are. There's a lot about Israel I don't particularly like or agree with, but they're not exactly going to call for my head on a stick or force me to wear the cultural dress code of the region! Why should young muslims in the UK feel so vilified that they are willing to listen to some vengeful old fool of a cleric somewhere to give them that particular meaning to their lives? What is so fundamentally wrong with the UK's own Islamic community that they can't provide successful role models which will help people find a place and sort out how they want to lead their life without killing people as a worthy resort to disagreement? I've seen people die for all kinds of dumb things, beaten and kicked to death and stacked three deep on a roadside and left to rot for the nationalisation of farmland, shot in the face point blank in front of their children with a 9mm at the traffic lights for their car and mobile phone, literally torn apart by angry mobs or a tyre filled with petrol lit over their upper body for talking to a policeman. But by far, the most profoundly idiotic thing when circumstances in a country dictate that there are plenty of civilised ways of resolving a disagreement, like the UK has. That people insist on killing in the name of god and in the name of religious law. If it happens once to an individual you could write it off as being an anomaly, a freakish event perpetrated by a sick mind but we both know that it's more than that. When you have groups committing premeditated homicide over it? That is a serious problem which needs to be stamped out very quickly because you risk anarchy at all levels of society, there is only so much you can do to prevent retaliatory attacks by people, however misguided or whatever, who will take their own form of justice into their own hands. Then we're going to have a really big problem which will only serve to alienate and vilify entire communities who most likely and undeservedly get treated terribly by their neighbours. And currently, they aren't helping the cause by doing nothing as members, however marginal they may be wage a war in their own backyards over nothing more than a petty desire to kill. This is a bit more than just political agitation by miscreant students, it takes a lot to make these otherwise normal people decide that they're going to just off an airport full of non-political citizens going about their business. I thought it was a fairly fundamental part of UK education from an early age that you just don't go around offing people because you don't like them or the people who are in government! For all your sympathies (and to some degree my own), wake up to the fact that there will be no kindly word to leave the building if someone's going to drop the hammer there. Believer, sympathiser, non-believer and hater alike, are just targets and the people behind this kind of activity have their conscience eased by the fact that they truly do believe they're doing themselves a favour by taking you out of this world.

The only part of your rant I disagree with is that "Joe Average UK Citizen favours Israel", which imo is not true (I was referring to the British government, not the public, and like I said above, I'm not convinced the UK government does favour Israel). But a rant is just what it was. How many times have I asked you and others on this thread to put forward solutions to this problem? Pretty much every post I've made.

Let me get one thing through your head ok? I am not defending Islamist terrorism. I can see perfectly well what a dangerous environment we are living in and something needs to be done about it. I have already given my opinions on what needs to be done (which includes what the Muslim leaders should do and what the government should do). What I am sick to the back teeth of is people like you and Firestarter who do nothing but make anti-Muslim rants against an entire set of people who have done nothing wrong but come from a different culture that you seem to hate. You rant and rave about ALL Muslims (and please no bullshit about how you only mean against the radicals) yet you all say NOTHING whatsoever about what solutions we should be looking at to counter this threat.

If you want to have a debate then fine, answer my questions.

However, if you just want to use the phenomenon of Islamist militancy in the UK to vent your anger at a set of people you have taken a dislike to then fine, but you'll look like nothing more than an ignorant bigot...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley However, if you just want to use the phenomenon of Islamist militancy in the UK to vent your anger at a set of people you have taken a dislike to then fine, but you'll look like nothing more than an ignorant bigot...

and you seem to just be an apologist.

so tell us jorge??? what should the UK do? I mean, you seem to have an inside track.... nothing anyone else says satisfies you, tell us... WHAT SHOULD THE UK do about radical Islam?

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Originally posted by LazFX and you seem to just be an apologist.

No I refuse to play along with everyone's anti-Muslim rants because there is quite simply no justification for it. When people let loose on an ENTIRE population without offering any reasons or solutions to what they see as they problem, then I don't see what else it can be other than an inherent dislike of that population. If Lilith, Firestarter and yourself begin to direct your rants towards the radical Islamists that deserve it, and away from the average UK Muslim guy then I won't need to make such statements. Answering my questions that I've asked in nearly every one of my posts would also go a long way to help convince me you three aren't just using these attempted attacks as justification to vent your anger at an entire population you seem to hate...

quote:

so tell us jorge??? what should the UK do? I mean, you seem to have an inside track.... nothing anyone else says satisfies you, tell us... WHAT SHOULD THE UK do about radical Islam?

It really is too much to ask that you actually read my posts isn't it?

quote:

[b]Originally posted by me, about 8 posts up So what is the solution? Well we are obviously in a mess. We cannot alter the fact that we invaded Iraq, it's done. But I did ask a question a number of times on this forum: why did the UK not get suicide bombed following the Gulf War of 1990/91? The answer is simple. it is because it was seen by the world as being a just war. The Afghanistan War, following 9/11 was seen by the world in a similar light. So one solution in future conflicts against an Islamic country (ANY country) is to make damn sure it is a just conflict and that it is supported by the international community. Next obviously we need to devote more effort to a more even handed approach to the Israel/Palestine conflict as this is a major motivator to radical Islamists. Currently we are seen as taking the American view and favouring Israel (altho I would tend to disagree but then the UK has done nothing to suggest otherwise). We need to support the EU fully and put pressure on Israel as much as we have on the Palestinians to resolve the conflict. Then finally we need to do something to counter this Islamophobia that drives a wedge between the "normal" UK citizens and the British Muslims.

Try and read what I write nnext time before you criticise me ok?

And while were at it, any chance of answering my question???

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX and you seem to just be an apologist.

Actually, unless you can quote where I support Islamic terrorism, then next post of yours better fucking well be an apology

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Actually, unless you can quote where I support Islamic terrorism, then next post of yours better fucking well be an apology

Nobody here has moral authority over the other so don't even go there.

How about answering the question first because seriously, other than shooting down what everyone else has to say, I don't see too many suggestions coming from you either.

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX so tell us jorge??? what should the UK do? I mean, you seem to have an inside track.... nothing anyone else says satisfies you, tell us... WHAT SHOULD THE UK do about radical Islam?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Nobody here has moral authority over the other so don't even go there. How about answering the question first because seriously, other than shooting down what everyone else has to say, I don't see too many suggestions coming from you either.

You're taking the piss right? LazFX just made the same incorrect statement as you have just made, and I quoted MYSELF in this same very thread as offering my solutions. How did you manage to miss it TWICE?!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley You're taking the piss right? LazFX just made the same incorrect statement as you have just made, and I quoted MYSELF in this same very thread as offering my solutions. How did you manage to miss it TWICE?!

You started off well enough and then drove straight into the Islamiphobia / It's the West's fault / foreign policy crater.
(I was actually enjoying the suggestions up to that point just so you know).

At what point do they actually take some responsibility?
Or should the rest of the world just turn the other cheek every time an Islamic extremist bombs and maims innocent people in the name of 'Allah'?
The extremists will NEVER be appeased which is why there has been so much turmoil.
There's no negotiating with them so what do we do?
Just sit back and wait until the next car bomb so we can 'talk'?
Discuss their feelings and emotions over afternoon tea?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Actually, unless you can quote where I support Islamic terrorism, then next post of yours better fucking well be an apology

George Lazfx is an idiot(you probably realized that by now),so please ignore him and don't let him get into you.
According to him we are all terrorist supporters if we disagree with him.

Guys like Firestarter and Lazfx would love to see a huge nuke dropped on every Muslim nation.I bet you it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside too.I know this because they have as you said it yourself,they no logical solution for the current Muslim extremism problem.Their solution is simply either to invade them or just kill them.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r There's no negotiating with them so what do we do? Just sit back and wait until the next car bomb so we can 'talk'? Discuss their feelings and emotions over afternoon tea?

Are you kidding me? not negotiating? then why are your fellow Americans in Iraq supporting and arming the Shia extremists in Iraq?do they not kill innocent people?do you not see them as terrorists?

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Guys like Firestarter and Lazfx would love to see a huge nuke dropped on every Muslim nation.I bet you it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside too.I know this because they have as you said it yourself,they no logical solution for the current Muslim extremism problem.Their solution is simply either to invade them or just kill them.

Yea, that's TOTALLY what I said...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Yea, that's TOTALLY what I said...

Come on dude spill it out for us,you would love to see them all get nuked so that you can live in the free world.

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