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i think everyone should stay in their house, build a bomb shelter and live there.

The terrorists have won.

Man I'm glad we are in Iraq, because the "terrorist" have been in the masses asses for ages.

Crazy, it's linked to the 2 cars found in London, and now Britain is on 'critical' alert. And apparently, nobody was harmed at the airport in Scotland.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europ...lert/index.html

quote:

Witnesses describe one of the Jeep's passengers shouting "Allah" as he fought with police and a second man set himself on fire. "We tried to subdue the guy, but he's a bad boy, he's not for being subdued," said airport worker John Smitten, who ran to help police in the aftermath of the crash. "He was shouting something. 'Allah,' something, 'Allah.' Every time he threw a punch, he was saying 'Allah.

LOL! <- Allah is doing this right now

I truely struggle understanding relgious fanatiscm/extremism... how can someone (of any religious background) bind faith and causing harm to someone so easily. Why does it seem like the more dedicated one becomes to religion (in the organized/institutional sense) the more intolerant he/she likely becomes?

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europ...lert/index.html LOL! <- Allah is doing this right now I truely struggle understanding relgious fanatiscm/extremism... how can someone (of any religious background) bind faith and causing harm to someone so easily. Why does it seem like the more dedicated one becomes to religion (in the organized/institutional sense) the more intolerant he/she likely becomes?

Well to be honest this isnt what Islam teaches that you go and kill people.These ******s who go and do these horrific acts and kill people are twisting and turning the actual teachings of Islam and making it seem as if there doing good.

In regards to people becoming more dedicated.....I know tons of people who are hardcore Muslims ,yet they are the most nicest people you can ever come across...... " All the five fingers arent equal "

Whats sad is the fact how some extremists brain wash people and make them do these deeds which makes rest of the muslims look bad who dont have nothing to do with these fanatics.

wat a good bye to Mr blair...
2 unsuccessful attempts...shame on them they must be some suicide fresh pussy!

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon I truely struggle understanding relgious fanatiscm/extremism... how can someone (of any religious background) bind faith and causing harm to someone so easily.

It's called mis-interpretation. Emphasis on the 'mis'. The Qu'ran uses strong language to describe the path for one's spiritual growth, which the fanatics take out of context to justify their blood-thirstiness. It's really quite simple (and sad).

i'm going to scotland with the wife in a month, hopefully things cool down by then.

side note:
also we are flying globespan, which is the airline that has had to have the same plane turn around twice due to a failed engine.

yay

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon I truely struggle understanding relgious fanatiscm/extremism... how can someone (of any religious background) bind faith and causing harm to someone so easily. Why does it seem like the more dedicated one becomes to religion (in the organized/institutional sense) the more intolerant he/she likely becomes?

It's not just some religious people that goes to extremism, it can happen to anyone that believes in a cause, from anything to animal activists to communist to anti abortionists.

Whatever the reason, they believe that their cause is righteous, and any means used is justified.

What is really sad is that these people mean to do some sort of good, but they end up doing evil.

quote:

Originally posted by Provocative_boi Well to be honest this isnt what Islam teaches that you go and kill people.These ******s who go and do these horrific acts and kill people are twisting and turning the actual teachings of Islam and making it seem as if there doing good.

Not really in the mood to debate this at length, but what you're saying simply isn't true. The literal text of the Qu'ran does prescribe the death penalty for atheists if they refuse to convert (Christians and Jews get to live but get saddled with dhimmitude), and in true theocracies such as Saudi Arabia, this is practiced openly by the government.

Yes, those same death provisions are also in Leviticus, but other religions have later religious law that abrogates them (death of Christ + New Testament for Christians, destruction of the second temple + Talmud for Jews). In Islamic law - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here - there are no religious provisions that can override those verses. If anything, the later suras would override the earlier ones, and the later ones are the "violent" ones. Christianity also has a central authority (the pope, duh) which unilaterally decides the "law", Islam does not (various Imams scattered across the globe).

Obviously, most Muslims don't read those verses literally. I understand that. The point is that a devout Muslim has no basis within the religion to dispute jihad. All they can say is that they simply choose not to follow that part of it, or don't take it literally and would prefer peaceful persuasion. Or they can try to claim that the earlier suras are more important, but that's something that would be open to debate among religious scholars in any religion.

I understand what it's like to have nutcases all over the world committing horrific acts and claiming that they did it on your behalf. You don't want to be associated with them in any way. That's perfectly reasonable. But it doesn't add anything to the discussion to insist that they're "twisting" the religion - they're actually not, and it's simply dishonest to say otherwise.

Again, if I'm wrong, please feel free to show me an authoritative religious source and explain why it's authoritative (i.e. don't just quote an earlier sura).

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon Why does it seem like the more dedicated one becomes to religion (in the organized/institutional sense) the more intolerant he/she likely becomes?

As Yohan rightly points out, it has nothing to do with religion. When somebody accepts any principle on blind faith, including political ones, intolerance becomes their primary defense mechanism against an open debate. I'm not going to point out specific areas, but I'm sure you can guess a few of them.

Most people don't realize when they've done this, because they're so ingrained. Atheists often think they're in the clear solely because they've rejected any religion, but often the only real difference is that for the religious person, the principles all happen to be written down in a single book.

Really, if you look at recent ACLU case history you'll find that many people seem to be incredibly intolerant of religion in general. Remember that the Nazi party members were atheists and one of their first acts was to stamp out any trace of religion from the country. I suppose one might call that intolerance?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Not really in the mood to debate this at length, but what you're saying simply isn't true. The literal text of the Qu'ran does prescribe the death penalty for atheists if they refuse to convert (Christians and Jews get to live but get saddled with dhimmitude), and in true theocracies such as Saudi Arabia, this is practiced openly by the government.

Can you confirm the statement made here by a reliable Source,beacuse i think your wrong.

Here is what i think happens in Saudi Arabia

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Yes, those same death provisions are also in Leviticus, but other religions have later religious law that abrogates them (death of Christ + New Testament for Christians, destruction of the second temple + Talmud for Jews). In Islamic law - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here - there are no religious provisions that can override those verses. If anything, the later suras would override the earlier ones, and the later ones are the "violent" ones. Christianity also has a central authority (the pope, duh) which unilaterally decides the "law", Islam does not (various Imams scattered across the globe). .

Islamic Law is defined in two different ways:-

1) Sharia
2) Fiqh

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Obviously, most Muslims don't read those verses literally. I understand that. The point is that a devout Muslim has no basis within the religion to dispute jihad. All they can say is that they simply choose not to follow that part of it, or don't take it literally and would prefer peaceful persuasion. Or they can try to claim that the earlier suras are more important, but that's something that would be open to debate among religious scholars in any religion.

Proper Definition of " Jihad "

Jihad literally means to "struggle in the way of God" or "to struggle to improve one's self and/or society".

Types of Jihad:-

1)Jihad of the heart/soul (jihad bin nafs/qalb): is an inner struggle of good against evil in the mind, through concepts such as tawhid.

2)Jihad by the tongue (jihad bil lisan) is a struggle of good against evil waged by writing and speech, such as in the form of dawah (proselytizing), Khutbas (sermons), etc.

3)Jihad by the pen and knowledge (jihad bil qalam/lim) is a struggle for good against evil through scholarly study of Islam, ijtihad (legal reasoning), and through sciences (such as medical sciences).

4)Jihad by the hand (jihad bil yad) refers to a struggle of good against evil waged by actions or with one's wealth, such as going on the Hajj pilgrimage (seen as the best jihad for women), taking care of elderly parents, or political activity for furthering the cause of Islam.

5)Jihad by the sword (jihad bis saif) refers to qital fi sabilillah (armed fighting in the way of God, or holy war)This is most commonly used by media...But this is basically used to defend not to ignite war( when someone is trying to takeover the Holy Land Mecca or Madina or when your religion is in danger at home.

Source

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I understand what it's like to have nutcases all over the world committing horrific acts and claiming that they did it on your behalf. You don't want to be associated with them in any way. That's perfectly reasonable. But it doesn't add anything to the discussion to insist that they're "twisting" the religion - they're actually not, and it's simply dishonest to say otherwise. Again, if I'm wrong, please feel free to show me an authoritative religious source and explain why it's authoritative (i.e. don't just quote an earlier sura).

I would still argue that the (extremists) are brainwashing people into this false Jihad and there are soo many ways i can prove it to you....to be honest i really dont want to get into those details or discuss religion any further. If you need further info, google it up.

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