TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- On Optimism
Pages (5): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 »

Have you read Atlas Shrugged, RJ?

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Have you read Atlas Shrugged, RJ?

No, but it has been recommended to me (many, many times).

I've avoided it as I've tend to be fonder of non-fictional approaches to philosophy (and not to mention the time required to read 1000 pages is... significant).

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker No, but it has been recommended to me (many, many times). I've avoided it as I've tend to be fonder of non-fictional approaches to philosophy (and not to mention the time required to read 1000 pages is... significant).

Oh man, well I'm reading it right now and it makes my brain horny (for lack of better words, lol).

I didn't expect it to be so appealing. Honestly it makes me feel giddy at times while I read it.

I dunno..I hear what you're saying....but if it ever comes into your path you should read it! I think a book like this shouldn't be forced.

I am digging this thread. A few random thoughts:

(1) If somone asked, I would generally describe myself as an optimistic person, both at work and in my private life.

(2) I view optimism as a tool.

(3) I tend to employ skepticism as a tool more regularly than I do optimism, especially at work.

(4) I rarely have confidence in overly optimistic people.

(5) Many of my greatest accomplishments can be linked to my intense response to feelings of anger or frustration, not optimism.

As I am going through some of these responses and making some of my own my own ideas are becoming more clear.

I think there is a difference between someone who is overly optimistic, which is the type of person Andrew and RJ both worry would suffer from inaction...

...and a type of person who has hope. In my original last paragraph this is what I mentioned, and having heard your concerns this is what I am drawn back to. Hope in the future can act not as a deterrent to action, but a motivation for it. In those moments when it feels like you can't go on, hope is what gives you the strength to do it anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny Hope in the future can act not as a deterrent to action, but a motivation for it. In those moments when it feels like you can't go on, hope is what gives you the strength to do it anyways.

Is it really hope though? Do you think optimism exists on it's own? Or do you think it's a product of fear?

I think there's very few people in the world who are true optimists. You can't expect everyone to rationalize the same way. It's naive and unrealistic.

quote:

Originally posted by Engine9 see the cheese not the holes /end thread

LOL

No. That piece that Shanny out up shouldn't be summarized. Take time to read it and reflect. It's very important. Your attitude towards life is the most important thing.

Thanks Shanny,

I think reading this was very helpful for me. Having hope or thinking positive has always been hard for me....especially when things in my life are going wrong....

I know being negative has gotten me nowhere, in fact has made things muc h worse for me other the last 6 yrs.

Having self confidence is something I lack very much...in so many areas, and I truely believe now more than ever I will never be happy in life until I am happy with who I am. No one else can make this happen but myself. I have relied on others all my life to fill my life with happiness, and it has never worked. I tend to blame myself for a lot of things, but in all reality these are all life lessons, weither I like it or not. The only choice I have is to move on, and somehow find true inner happiness with myself.

This thread put things in a different light for me today. I will probably go back and read it from time and time again.

Thanks again

I find this essay very moving as it has obtains a lot of my similar beliefs. Anyone who knows me well can vouch that for the most part I have lived my life with these exact guidelines, maybe not to the utmost degree but in a small regard.

I have always been very optimistic with everything I do. This strategy to life is not one I sat there and anticipated, it came natural to me.

With this set of perspectives I realized that even when something happened that wasn�t to my advantage, I was able to roll with the punches and let it slide. In actuality, I should have been upset. In my world, it was meant to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny Act only in accordance with what you believe to be truest to yourself and you can never go wrong. It is only when external things come in to play and begin changing the way that you operate that you truthfully get into trouble.

As a person whom, nothing bad ever happened because it was always looked at in a positive light. I in the past let someone into my life whom, I trusted with everything. To make a long story short I let that person steal a part of me. I let them affect me and change the way I operate. I was no longer �true to myself� and I was the most unhappy person. I didn�t recognize that this was in fact happening. It took me a very long time to break free from this, and an even longer time to regain myself.

I now know what it feels like to question what I do, to observe what others think about me, to not feel confident in my own skin. As only starting to feel this at 20, when I had never felt this even in my awkward teenage stages, it was scary. These are the years I was supposed to be growing into my skin and being confident within myself.

I am living proof of being the person whom had utmost confidence within all my actions and was never deeply affected by negatives around me. And then letting someone influence my beliefs and change my guidelines and genetic makeup of who I was to question my actions and thought processes. I will be the first to say that I was WAY more happy living in my optimistic world.
But then I question would I have ever let this person affect me so deeply had I never been so blind with my optimism.

quote:

Originally posted by MissK I find this essay very moving as it has obtains a lot of my similar beliefs. Anyone who knows me well can vouch that for the most part I have lived my life with these exact guidelines, maybe not to the utmost degree but in a small regard. I have always been very optimistic with everything I do. This strategy to life is not one I sat there and anticipated, it came natural to me. With this set of perspectives I realized that even when something happened that wasn�t to my advantage, I was able to roll with the punches and let it slide. In actuality, I should have been upset. In my world, it was meant to happen. As a person whom, nothing bad ever happened because it was always looked at in a positive light. I in the past let someone into my life whom, I trusted with everything. To make a long story short I let that person steal a part of me. I let them affect me and change the way I operate. I was no longer �true to myself� and I was the most unhappy person. I didn�t recognize that this was in fact happening. It took me a very long time to break free from this, and an even longer time to regain myself. I now know what it feels like to question what I do, to observe what others think about me, to not feel confident in my own skin. As only starting to feel this at 20, when I had never felt this even in my awkward teenage stages, it was scary. These are the years I was supposed to be growing into my skin and being confident within myself. I am living proof of being the person whom had utmost confidence within all my actions and was never deeply affected by negatives around me. And then letting someone influence my beliefs and change my guidelines and genetic makeup of who I was to question my actions and thought processes. I will be the first to say that I was WAY more happy living in my optimistic world. But then I question would I have ever let this person affect me so deeply had I never been so blind with my optimism.

I have some FABULOUS news for you my darling and, at the risk of doing the "I am older than you" thing, I can say, without doubt, that the optimism comes back with full force.

I lost all my optimism for about 2 years from the age of 20-22 and it crippled me emotionally. Every time I would pick myself up and dust off, something horrific would happen again. "Can it get any worse?" would always be a thought in my head and invariably it could AND it did for that period of time - trust me, any optimism I had at that point depleted considerably. After this prolonged period was over, it took from the age of 22-23 to start growing my optimism again and from 23-now to continue to increase and nurture it. With this lucidity comes many benefits along with a renewed respect for the optimism you have. It's precious.

Self assuredness is something that few people ever really attain. It isn't confidence or arrogance, it is a quiet and unassuming knowledge that you are a good person (everyone's defintion is different - for me it is kind, considerate, thoughtful, generous and loyal - the bad side to it is that I expect others to be the same as me - my negative aspect of my personality is the stubbornness that comes from expecting everyone in my life to live up to my expectations and not deviate from them which, in turn, can mean copious amounts of disappointment) and that you live your life to the best of your ability for both you and the people around you.

Self assuredness and optimism go hand-in-hand as becoming self assured brings with it the knowledge that you have been able to grow as a person and accept the things you can't/won't change about yourself so others can too.

You'll get there too! Promise!!

In short, optimism is something that has to be nurtured and cared for and encouraged and projected - don't take it for granted and get rid of anyone in your life that doesn't make you feel optimistic. Leave the pessimists to themselves. Bright and sunny people FTW.

if everyone is being optimistic and looking down and saying it could be worse, there must be someone at the bottom of the pile o' shit of the problem...optimism is an idealist's way

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b if everyone is being optimistic and looking down and saying it could be worse, there must be someone at the bottom of the pile o' shit of the problem...optimism is an idealist's way

Why so? Why can't we all look for the good in people and work with some terrible occurences to come out on top in the face of adversity?

There doesn't have to be anyone at the bottom of the pile.

In fact, pessimists should be shot.

Or sent to Sudbury.

quote:

Originally posted by English Rachel Why so? Why can't we all look for the good in people and work with some terrible occurences to come out on top in the face of adversity? There doesn't have to be anyone at the bottom of the pile. In fact, pessimists should be shot. Or sent to Sudbury.

Sudbury? lol

But pessimists expect the worst, the may hope for the best but expect/prepare for the worse..thats not always a bad thing. Speaking of Sudbury, thats where the Ontario tax centre is..I always exoect the worse when doing my taxes and expect to pay a load to the Guv...am I a pessimist?

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b Sudbury? lol But pessimists expect the worst, the may hope for the best but expect/prepare for the worse..thats not always a bad thing. Speaking of Sudbury, thats where the Ontario tax centre is..I always exoect the worse when doing my taxes and expect to pay a load to the Guv...am I a pessimist?

PREPARING for the worst is more than fine, encouraged, in fact. EXPECTING is a different matter and the epitome of pessimism.

PREPARE to pay a load to the government (by keeping some cashola aside) and hope to pay a little (which could mean you could blow the aforementioned saved cashola on buying something that gives you pleasure).

Don't expect anything. Optimists don't expect the best, they hope for it.


But then after my little blip in my optimistic journey, who the fuck am I to advise?

quote:

Originally posted by English Rachel PREPARING for the worst is more than fine, encouraged, in fact. EXPECTING is a different matter and the epitome of pessimism. PREPARE to pay a load to the government (by keeping some cashola aside) and hope to pay a little (which could mean you could blow the aforementioned saved cashola on buying something that gives you pleasure). Don't expect anything. Optimists don't expect the best, they hope for it. But then after my little blip in my optimistic journey, who the fuck am I to advise?

I once played Roulette..I was winning so much....I put a shit Load of chips on 37/38 numbers..like piles of chips...I figured I would get at least something back...it landed on number 27, the only number I didnt put chips on..a 1/37 chance. I shouldve expected the worst? =(

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Is it really hope though? Do you think optimism exists on it's own? Or do you think it's a product of fear? I think there's very few people in the world who are true optimists. You can't expect everyone to rationalize the same way. It's naive and unrealistic.

It is not necessary that optimism does exist on it's own. In my life there certainly are things are afraid of, and often times optimism aligns itself with my fear, just as many times it doesn't.

I doubt that there are many people who can say that they are afraid of nothing, but certainly what can be argued is that there are times when optimism exists (in that circumstance in particular) in the absence of fear.

I don't think linking optimism with fear is what is important.

Addressing your second point, look back at what my first few paragraphs said...

quote:

Originally posted by shanny Imagine this essay as an argument for how to live your life in the best way possible. Similar to a doctrine like "Utilitarianism" by John Stuart Mill or The Bible.It is a collection of thoughts and influences put together into one guiding constitution that suggests a way to live better than all others. I start by saying that the idea of being optimistic is not something many people utilize in their lives. All too often people focus on past experiences, dwelling on negatives in a situation and worrying about things they have no control over. What makes this particularly interesting is that many recognize what it is that is troubling them and may even acknowledge the fact that a possible solution would be to "find the silver lining" or "not cry over spilled milk." This is an attempt to put forth an argument for how one can incorporate any number of sources to develop their individualized version of Optimism. Something important to recognize before even beginning is that what I am writing is the way I have used influences in my life to develop my version of Optimism. For each person reading it they will draw on their own past, experiences and influences to develop their own version of Optimism, while still falling under its umbrella.

I wanted to make this idea something that was not exclusive. Even though I have transcribed my thoughts in this particular way, I do not want people to change their philosophy to be exactly what I have written down.

When I speak about coming up with their own individualized version of Optimism what I am referring to is combining the specific influences in your life that are supremely important, and then having faith in goodness, which is why I have given the entire thing the label of optimism.

I don't expect everyone to rank staying true to themselves as the number one priority in their life, nor do I think they should all let things go as a rule. Those are things that work for me, and since I was writing down my life philosophy I included them because they are relevant in the entire package. But what I think most people can benefit from is the idea of putting together a group of influences and arguments to combine a type of superargument that is the one that they live by.

As part of that argument, I am arguing that faith will be a necessary part of your superargument. And what I am arguing that you have faith in is goodness.

quote:

Originally posted by MissK I am living proof of being the person whom had utmost confidence within all my actions and was never deeply affected by negatives around me. And then letting someone influence my beliefs and change my guidelines and genetic makeup of who I was to question my actions and thought processes. I will be the first to say that I was WAY more happy living in my optimistic world. But then I question would I have ever let this person affect me so deeply had I never been so blind with my optimism.

Katy your points are brilliant, and if there is one aspect of an optimistic attitude that is more potentially problematic than others it is that people who are like this are quicker to trust than others.

In my life just like yours, I have given my trust to people, and been burned in the process. This is positive proof that at certain times optimism will fail. Just like any philosophy will fail. It is not about trying to have an undefeated record all the way throughout life, but about having the most enjoyment over the entire thing combined.

The other side of the story is that your trust allows you to develop more friendships, and to develop deeper bonds more quickly with more people than if you went into every relationship doubting people.

This doesn't mean you can't learn from your mistakes, you certainly can look at what has happened to you in the past and try to not let it happen in the future. And the entire time you do it you will be maximizing your enjoyment.

Welp, I think a much simpler and more universal form of optimism is accountability.

Once you start owning up to all your thoughts and actions, you're more likely to choose an attitude that produces more positive results.

i didn't even read this thread...however seeing that Shanny started it and its a pretty long post, i know its something very philosophical.


Well thats all...I just wanted to let you all know that I KNOW...but I am not contributing.

Thank you for your time.

Respectfully Yours,
Rob (Yea...thats my real name )















































BIOOOOOTCH!!!

good read. i recommend you read it and apply it to your own lives.

oh and re: all this discussion the only thing that you can change is YOURSELF. Don't bother bout everybody else, just focus on you.

If you come from a place where you truly love who you are, including all your apparent faults (in reality they're not faults at all, you've just been programmed to see them that way), then nothing can really phase you.

/COR version

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Welp, I think a much simpler and more universal form of optimism is accountability. Once you start owning up to all your thoughts and actions, you're more likely to choose an attitude that produces more positive results.

*applause*

K.I.S.S.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Welp, I think a much simpler and more universal form of optimism is accountability. Once you start owning up to all your thoughts and actions, you're more likely to choose an attitude that produces more positive results.

Interesting. I am not exactly sure how accountability is a "more universal form of optimism", but I think I get your point (and agree). I assume you are a proponent of being accountable to others, not just yourself.

For me, accountability to others - especially to people whom I respect, and who have high standards - is an excellent motivating force.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperJimbo Interesting. I am not exactly sure how accountability is a "more universal form of optimism", but I think I get your point (and agree). I assume you are a proponent of being accountable to others, not just yourself.

It's universal because EVERYone has the ability to take charge of themselves, and it has nothing to do with beliefs or values or anything like that. It's a simple black or white thing that you either do, or don't do. Doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, or what you've been taught in life...accountability doesn't change.


As for being accountable to others...I guess in a way, yes. It depends on the person. Otherwise no, not really. Nobody's gonna make my life happen the way I want it to except me...I could give a fuck who approves or disapproves of it. I've always been that way though...I do what I want! Plus, once you start owing yourself to anyone but yourself, you stop being true to yourself...and that makes me miserable.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie It's universal because EVERYone has the ability to take charge of themselves, and it has nothing to do with beliefs or values or anything like that. It's a simple black or white thing that you either do, or don't do. Doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, or what you've been taught in life...accountability doesn't change.

I guess I still don't understand what you mean by accountability. Taking charge of themsleves? What does that mean?

In my mind, accountability is inextricably linked to core values.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie As for being accountable to others...I guess in a way, yes. It depends on the person. I could give a fuck who approves or disapproves of it. I've always been that way though...I do what I want! Plus, once you start owing yourself to anyone but yourself, you stop being true to yourself...and that makes me miserable.

I've heard many people make these kinds of statements. First, I'd say that very few people really get to do what they want. There are constraints on all of us, whether we are aware of them or not, or whether we like it or not.

Second, I'd argue that while it is important to be true to yourself, if you truly want to be happy (however you define "being happy"), you HAVE to consider and account for what other certain people around you think. There is no escaping this. It would be impossible to function if you completely ignored the views and opinions of family members, good friends, significant others, co-workers, employers, mentors, (wankers on TA), etc, etc. An unfortunate reality, but a reality nonetheless.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperJimbo I guess I still don't understand what you mean by accountability. Taking charge of themsleves? What does that mean? In my mind, accountability is inextricably linked to core values.

It means when you do something, you take responsibility for it and don't play the blame game or make excuses or try to justify it with bullshit. Either you thought/said/did/felt something, or you didn't. It IS a simple as that.

Taking charge of oneself? It means you make yourself and only yourself responsible for your happiness or unhappiness. And that's as simple as an attitude adjustment.

It has nothing to do with values at all. You either decide that you're taking action and being conscious in your life, or not.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperJimbo Second, I'd argue that while it is important to be true to yourself, if you truly want to be happy (however you define "being happy"), you HAVE to consider and account for what other certain people around you think. There is no escaping this. It would be impossible to function if you completely ignored the views and opinions of family members, good friends, significant others, co-workers, employers, mentors, (wankers on TA), etc, etc. An unfortunate reality, but a reality nonetheless.

No, I disagree. The only thing that matters in this case is how your choices AFFECT other people, which is different than being concerned with what they're going to think. Why should what someone ELSE thinks have an effect on YOUR life?? Who's driving the ship here?? The idea is ludicrous to me. That might matter to some people, but not to me.

I think worrying about what other people think is just another excuse not to be fully accountable.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.