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-- can you return to the "plur" after you've become jaded
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| Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Of course it was. Hell, the warehouse raves and clubs are the very places where the entire "scene" (sic) was born. |
the socialite/guido club ala pachca is sort of an alien thing to dance music culture - it's a more mainstream thing that exploded after the disco boom and eventually swallowed it up or maybe i should say 'bought it out '
I don't really want to get into a history lesson lol, but from the 70s until the 90s, with the deteroriation of the industrial and manufacturing sectors in many cities (especially new york where some of the first huge socialite clubs came into existence) came vacant buildings with exapansive floor plates and high ceilings, as well cheap real estate prices which proved perfect for things such as as artists' studios and nightclubs. (now it's considered 'trendy' to have an industrial 'aesthetic' in such places but the truth is it was born from the necessity) Among these clubs were the first generation dance music clubs and scenes, essentially free from bullshit fashion and just doing their own thing. The original sound factory is a good example of this.
At the same time you have a recent history of big-time, extravagant, and corrupt socialite clubs such as Studio 54, and the scene that went with it. Fast forward and you see dance music coming out of the underground and that the poor, counterculture artists in Chelsea have now made it 'cool' and primed it for settlement by the yuppies and the gentrification process begins. This also meant the gentrification of the nightclubs and the music itself (that's what money does).
Over time the socialite nightlife business machine came to dominate everything because its market had expanded to the once strictly underground neighborhoods. You see in NYC a series of closings and openings Sound Factory becomes Twilo becomes Spirit etc etc. With the mass market appeal to these clubs which were once regarded as havens for freaks and gays, music was also standardized, and innocence was lost. Expulsion from the garden... no more PLUR.
In short, it's always been about the club. The socialite thing is kind of an invasive species which chokes out all the light.
This is a good read
I can't really speak about the European scenes, but I assume there are parallels in both London and Berlin which have seen similar cultural changes
if anyone is wondering, i am probably going to be doing an architectural thesis on this very process of gentrification and the design of 'privileged' space versus 'egalitarian' space, thus my verbosity
Excellent article. Thanks for linking it.
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| One person who has suffered from these drastic changes in nightlife demographics is Junior Vasquez himself. In its final year, Sound Factory - �The House That Junior Built� - was filled, not with people who loved him for his music, but with people who worshipped him as the world�s most celebrated DJ. He told me that the main reason he refused to come to Europe was because people would just stare at him in awe rather than share in the dance. However, this is exactly what happened in the Sound Factory. It became cool to be there. People came down because they thought they might see Madonna. In all respects, the dancefloor stopped moving. |
Kind of made me think of this one, which someone linked a while ago:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/98...tein,229,1.html
Once you've become jaded I don't think there's a way back to loving everything and anything about dance music. You just develop standards, and if these standards aren't met what's the reason for liking it?
The other weekend I was at a Nou's cabin and spent five hours spinning back-to-back with DJFreaq, also a TA. After we were done, we had a similar discussion. The last party all three of us had attended as a group was in May of 2006. It was a rave, but hey, why can't you just dick around and let go once in a while? The concept is good on paper, but it's not what actually happened. We were disgusted by it all. As a group, we stood right in front of the DJ booth just standing there, shaking our heads as the sound engineers destroyed the PA system, speakers blew out and the DJ redlined like nobodys business. DJFreaq was kind enough to point out to the DJ that redlining isn't cool, but the DJ shot back with, "Hey, I KNOW what I'm doing, so back off, it's okay."
It was that last weekend at the cabin that we realized we're at that point as "musicians" (quoted, because we DJ and produce as opposed to actually play an instrument) where we can't go out and really let go anymore. Every single kid around us was having a blast and we just sat there and didn't have a good time. We left early, drove thirty minutes to a restaurant and had a better time there than at the party. Why? Because for some reason we knew it was wrong and we let it get to us.
I've been out plenty of times since, and I've certainly noticed a difference between how I am now at parties and how I used to be. When I started going to massives at 17 I would have a blast and not really notice the mixing. Now I go to a club and can't stand it if somebody is off-phrase or obviously off-beat. Subtle mistakes shouldn't bug me, but they do.
I think the thing I've always liked most about this music, regardless of whether or not it's House or Gabber, is that it's a type of music that really doesn't stereotype (ie, Hip Hop/Rap being African American-centric or Country being for rednecks) and that's just about going out and having fun with everybody from every walk of life. It's music to dance to and to let yourself go and get away from everything for one night. It's great that I can be an artist or a "music snob", but as one I also need to remember the real underlying reason for why I'm here in the first place.
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| I think the thing I've always liked most about this music, regardless of whether or not it's House or Gabber, is that it's a type of music that really doesn't stereotype (ie, Hip Hop/Rap being African American-centric or Country being for rednecks) and that's just about going out and having fun with everybody from every walk of life. It's music to dance to and to let yourself go and get away from everything for one night. It's great that I can be an artist or a "music snob", but as one I also need to remember the real underlying reason for why I'm here in the first place. |
Funny thread Montana, I was just thinking of this like, yesterday. But more in the sense of going out to clubs, and how the whole thing is just losing its appeal. I'll go see acts that I normally really like, but I just don't dance as much as I used to, it's harder for me to get into it and get lost in music when I'm out. I kind of miss the days where I'd go see Sasha or someone, eat drugs, get on the dance floor, start grooving and just completely let myself get envelopped in the sound and show, for 6+ hours. Lately though, no one is really innovating and keeping things really fresh.
The only guy who keeps me dancing like a nut no matter what is Danny Howells. He just has a way with his sets that suck you in, every track leads to the next and nothing seems out of place. And every set I hear from him is full of music I've never heard, and anything I have heard is usually a favorite. He's a DJ's DJ for sure. I agree with Adam, when you start putting alot of time into DJing, it really kills alot of the mystery when you're at a night. You'll hear tracks you play, and shoddy mixes, or shitty tracks you didn't buy for obvious reasons, and it's easy to fall in to that cynical elitism really fast 
I spend more time talking to friends and socializing now @ clubs than I ever did before, hanging out outside and on patios alot. And sometimes I feel like "why did I pay to go see XXX DJ, I didn't even listen to 20 minutes of their set." 
IMO, local DJs are where it's at. Supporting people I know who feel the same way about music as me, is probably where I have most fun now.
I think above all, I've come to realise that the DJ really doesnt have to be the central focus of the party, and it really irks me to see guys play out who think they deserve all the fucking attention...
i have to back clovis up on DH. I had the opportunity this summer to hit the clubs harder than ever. Gone was the pumped up feeling and awe of the spectacle. I stopped going to the big clubs, boycotted events from large promoters.. All I craved was dark, deep, therapeutic dance music. Music that makes me feel good to be alive, like when you breathe in fresh cool air. I want to go to clubs where the DJ is going to fuck with my feelings, take me on a trip, create atmosphere.
Danny Howells brought that, and at Cielo, one of the most therapeautic club spaces in nyc. (except when desyn masiello plays). Funk D'Void also can do that to me, but Francois K does it like none other. This is a man who's been through it all. He makes anything sound like it's the first time it's ever been played. I left Cielo several times this summer with a feeling of reverie. I also don't eat pills. Except when hawtin plays.
Actually, the last time I felt "PLUR" was at Francois K's deep space NYC party, which is kind of like a club version of David Mancuso's loft parties. What did it for me more than anything was the fantastic crowd of positive minded, free, self-confident, inviduals not subject to needing to look cool or act a certain way or like a certain kind of music. It was all very primal and pure, very innocent and full of freedom. Seriously unparalled vibes when Theo Parrish and Francois K teamed up.
also agreed with local deejays. But for me to feel that plur/reverie it's all about the crowd
honestly though the main reason for my excitement fading away at parties is because I have had so much fucking fun deejaying and promoting my own parties. I put so much energy into that and believe in it with all my heart that nothing else comes close when it goes off right. If I got involved in the NYC scene I am sure I would have a rebirth of excitement at least for some time.
starting monday I'm going to be living in Rome, and I'll have the opportunity to uncover a very underground and closed music scene, completely different from the American system, and I am absolutely thrilled.
Another +1 on Howells. Last time I saw him, he was unbelievable. Exactly like Clovis said, 95% of the set completely unknown tracks but makes you dance like crazy. None of the djs I've seen were able to do their job that well. Too bad the set wasn't recorded (or it was but didn't make it to the public), because I thought that was a unusual Howells set, even for his eclectic standards. He finished with some cross-over of trance and techno, pretty fast bpm, played harder than I expected.
He truly is the man who can restore faith in dance music and djing for even the most jaded music fan out there.
another question -
any producers find you like less music once you start making your own?
since I started producing more seriously I have a lot more trouble putting sets together because I'm so fucking picky
I hate to seem like I keep plugging howells everywhere, but as you guys have shown, pretty much any hardcore music junkie who has seen him agrees.
Another big up to Howells for his sets. You can tell he really knows what he's doing and loves what he does
Another big dj that does that for me is Digweed. I'm blown away each & every time I see him. Even if he's playing a few tracks that I've heard before there's just something about his overall set that's mind blowing.
i've never been plur ever. i was born with a rotten heart.
well,
i try to expose other ppl to the gems, really. that's what i want to do.
Very interesting one. For me personally, it happens in cycles, I go through phases where I'm extremely disillusioned with EDM, the scene, and what's going on, and then a few months down the line, something happens that makes me become more hopeful, more enthusiastic. Right now, I'm somwhere hovering in the middle, neither here nor there. So in that respect I would say yes, you can return to PLUR.
Another valid point someone made was about maturity. When you're young & just get into trance, everything's rainbows, happiness, & magical pixielights, but years dwon the line, you become a much more discerning music lover, and realise that you don't need trance in your ears 24 hours a day, and that overkill is a real possibility, and overkill breeds cynicism.
For those of us, who have reached the jaded state, I think it's good, it makes you much more complete than the young ones who scream CHHOOONN all the time...
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| Originally posted by basd If you want to let other people's opinions (negatively) influence your attitude towards certain types of music, sure, go ahead. To me it just doesn't work that way. Also, calling names makes you cool  |
Found a quote recently that made me think of this thread. I didn't want to start a new thread about being "jaded," so I decided to bump this one:
"All the excitement that I felt in the mid-eighties, when I came across white labels in Chicago, and all the excitement I felt when people began doing drug-riddled events in Britain, which were later called "raves," but at that time were just drug-riddled events, you know, is gone. I feel there's just formalization, commodification, assimilation -- all the things that were the enemy in the seventies are back with a vengeance and it doesn't excite me. I was excited by music in the sixties because it was sexy, rebellious, and everyone hated it. It confused even me. I'd never come across it before, and I didn't know what the next sound was going to be. Adding to this appeal was the fact that often I couldn't go out and buy it anywhere. I couldn't see it on television and it wasn't in magazines, except scare stories saying it was destroying civilization. I liked that, you see. I think that's what we're supposed to be doing. We're supposed to scare everyone. We're supposed to try and find things that are sexy. We're supposed to feel confused and exhilarated and to have experiences we never had before. We're not meant to get jaded. We're not meant to know the ruling peer group's approved mode of dress or how to dance to it in advance. The expected is the enemy. When I woke up one morning and realized I knew what the flyers for the raves would look like and what software was used to do the graphics and that there would be Hindu deities on the back, even the choice of typefaces and how long it was going to last. When I even knew all the DJs and what they were going to play, and I knew the people who did the light show, and I knew exactly what videos they were going to use I thought, "Why do I go? Why on earth would I go to this?" "So it's on a beach...big deal. You know, I can go to a beach and take drugs anyway. I don't need to go and deal with 10,000 people who do not think, you know?" The joy of true creativity is the exploration of the unpredictable. At the point that creative energy becomes fully predictable and formularized, the flickering spirit of the divine is extinguished and camouflaged conservatism takes over, fed by the desire of many to be safe within the familiar.
- Genesis P-Orridge (quoted in Modulations: A History of Electronic Music, 2000)
Sure.
Just stop being an asshole.
Easy, huh? :P
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| Originally posted by DJ Shibby Sure, take a hit of some really nice weed, then listen to random tracks in your music collection. |
I've tried really hard to convince myself that my attachments to the past are pure nostalgia, and that anyone new to any scene experiences the same sense of exhilaration and newness. But I honestly think that a large part of the loss is related to the quality and style of the music itself.
Let's take trance as a case study. The entire ethos of trance at its peak (here I mean the carefree emotionality, the massive venues, the mindlessness) was fueled by the style of music: trippy, melodic, sometimes euphoric. The same culture wouldn't have developed around a different sound, and I think it's erroneous for people to treat the rise and fall of that trance "feeling" as simply an instance of jaded fans. People dropped out from trance when the commerical side of things became too overbearing and production values began to slip. The genre became too glossy and top-heavy, and the decline in quality was unsustainable. There are big problems when Oliver Lieb formally divorces the genre he helped to found. Seeing so many old producers pump out awful pop-oriented material from 2003 on was heart-rending, as was the amateurish desktop production that picked up the slack. It wasn't just a case of becoming jaded, because the quality collapsed. I can still uncover music from old 90s sets and be wowed, because it was made with the contemporary culture in mind, which attracted me.
There's a lot of quality house being made right now, for example, but it's a totally different mood. If that appeals to your taste, it's a great time to be into things. But if you liked the upbeat, hypnotic, colorful, and accessible feel of the trance era, there's not much to grasp to these days. It's easy to feel jaded in that situation, but I think it has at least as much to do with the style and quality of production. The trance and progressive "culture" stemmed from the way the music sounded.
I do think jadedness matters, but not as much as some people make it out to be. The music went south, too.
Really now, would you really want everything to be the same after all of these years?
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Found a quote recently that made me think of this thread. I didn't want to start a new thread about being "jaded," so I decided to bump this one: "All the excitement that I felt in the mid-eighties, when I came across white labels in Chicago, and all the excitement I felt when people began doing drug-riddled events in Britain, which were later called "raves," but at that time were just drug-riddled events, you know, is gone. I feel there's just formalization, commodification, assimilation -- all the things that were the enemy in the seventies are back with a vengeance and it doesn't excite me. I was excited by music in the sixties because it was sexy, rebellious, and everyone hated it. It confused even me. I'd never come across it before, and I didn't know what the next sound was going to be. Adding to this appeal was the fact that often I couldn't go out and buy it anywhere. I couldn't see it on television and it wasn't in magazines, except scare stories saying it was destroying civilization. I liked that, you see. I think that's what we're supposed to be doing. We're supposed to scare everyone. We're supposed to try and find things that are sexy. We're supposed to feel confused and exhilarated and to have experiences we never had before. We're not meant to get jaded. We're not meant to know the ruling peer group's approved mode of dress or how to dance to it in advance. The expected is the enemy. When I woke up one morning and realized I knew what the flyers for the raves would look like and what software was used to do the graphics and that there would be Hindu deities on the back, even the choice of typefaces and how long it was going to last. When I even knew all the DJs and what they were going to play, and I knew the people who did the light show, and I knew exactly what videos they were going to use I thought, "Why do I go? Why on earth would I go to this?" "So it's on a beach...big deal. You know, I can go to a beach and take drugs anyway. I don't need to go and deal with 10,000 people who do not think, you know?" The joy of true creativity is the exploration of the unpredictable. At the point that creative energy becomes fully predictable and formularized, the flickering spirit of the divine is extinguished and camouflaged conservatism takes over, fed by the desire of many to be safe within the familiar. - Genesis P-Orridge (quoted in Modulations: A History of Electronic Music, 2000) |
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| Originally posted by couch-potato Really now, would you really want everything to be the same after all of these years? |
I don't think it'll ever happen with me with psy/ambient, but then I just keep finding new good stuff.
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