TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Music Discussion
-- The commodification of trance
Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »

I think its funny that people who critisize are constantly labeled as "elitists" who have nothing better to do than radiate negativity. Most of the time those same people tend to be the most passionate and rooted in the music of anyone I meet.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Would you leave me alone. All you guys on here constantly hate on me, like whatever I say means nothing. Sorry I don't find it easy to make simple posts, but that doesn't mean I have nothing to say or am somehow a terrible person and shouldn't post cause I'm full of crap. Yeah..thanks. It's either the music I like is crap, I'm crap, what I say is crap, my ideas are crap...do you guys even know me? have you even bothered to talk to me?

tbh ridicule folk like rebel9 and ishkur back cuz they are so desperate to be keyboard gangsters they will say anything thats gona annoy you or upset you. fuck them. enjoy what you are into and voice your opinion cuz i can guarantee theres more folk that agree with most of what you are saying than you might think

quote:

Originally posted by gizzymcg tbh ridicule folk like rebel9 and ishkur back cuz they are so desperate to be keyboard gangsters they will say anything thats gona annoy you or upset you. fuck them. enjoy what you are into and voice your opinion cuz i can guarantee theres more folk that agree with most of what you are saying than you might think

They do get on my nerves, but even more so lately those who ridicule me for the posts I make. It's not easy for me to make two or three sentence posts. They know this, but they think "lets keep baggering him until he quits posting his 3,000 word essay crap that says nothing" or just stop posting on TA all together. I would just ignore it if it was once or twice, but now it's like..whenever I post, even in the COR (Ted Promo aka Demoted). I was chased off my track team in high school cause the guys didn't like me nor the coach (didn't really like him to begin with though), and I almost feel it's the same on this board. Sure it's just the internet, but to me..it's almost the same idea. No matter where I go, I face ridicule....

If these guys even bothered to at least talk to me, get to know me in the slightest (i'm not asking them to be my friends) and joked around about it...I wouldn't take it to heart as much cause I know they would be joking. But I don't see it that way with these people.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 They do get on my nerves, but even more so lately those who ridicule me for the posts I make. It's not easy for me to make two or three sentence posts. They know this, but they think "lets keep baggering him until he quits posting his 3,000 word essay crap that says nothing" or just stop posting on TA all together. I would just ignore it if it was once or twice, but now it's like..whenever I post, even in the COR (Ted Promo aka Demoted). I was chased off my track team in high school cause the guys didn't like me nor the coach (didn't really like him to begin with though), and I almost feel it's the same on this board. Sure it's just the internet, but to me..it's almost the same idea. No matter where I go, I face ridicule.... If these guys even bothered to at least talk to me, get to know me in the slightest (i'm not asking them to be my friends) and joked around about it...I wouldn't take it to heart as much cause I know they would be joking. But I don't see it that way with these people.

Get a hold of yourself man, before you blow your brains out.

quote:

Originally posted by Igaryok Get a hold of yourself man.

Uh I'm not posting in caps and acting all "fu** you" (i'm not crying or super upset, just annoyed), i'm merely stating that i'm sick and tired of being reminded I write "nothing but rambling, nonsense...3,000 word essays" by these guys on here, and acting like everything I like or say is crap. Constantly ridiculing me about it is not going to make me magically stop doing it, having a particular opinion or liking a particular style, artist, song etc.

I think the problem is that when marketers find their "money man" to hook in the mainstream Linkin Park mass with tracks like Heaven or the Pirates remix, these sheep fans toss their money at these few forced sources, not willing to venture into the 'indie'(better term?)/underground producers. More money is spent on artists with gauranteed HITS, leaving up-n-comers(aka, harder working and more imaginative) high and dry.

When it's underground, I think the credit given to artists is a bit more appropriate.

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange i think you meant commercialization of trance.

Commercialization is certainly related, but not exactly what I meant. By "commodification" I mean a focus on tangible, static products (widely sold singles, compilations, shirts, shoes, whatever), on all the fans buying lots of specific objects out of adoration for specific artists / performers. The pop model, the "everybody buy buy buy!" model.

This can occur even without a genre getting very popular or "commercialized" (unpopular music can still be very commodified if artists market CDs and such to fans incessantly).

There's something that appeals to me about the idea of going to an event not knowing the DJ, not knowing the songs that get played, not even being sure when one song starts and another stops, not trying to play the "ID" game or waiting to see if the DJ will play a certain track, and just being enveloped in the music all night. And then leaving and not knowing if I'll ever hear that DJ or any of those tracks again. A beautiful and ephemeral experience with nothing bought or sold, nothing static possessed, just a great time and that's it.

I guess I'm after a sense of "timelessness." For me the best way to achieve that is a stream of music where I'm not sure what's coming next or even where the "divisions" between or within tracks are, but that keeps going on and on without breaking, and I don't know the names of the artists or tracks or anything. Just unending, anonymous, repetitive, transfixing music.

That's what the ideal of "trance" is to me I guess. And it would be cool to find some people who shared that ideal.

But I think that most people here see all that as just a bunch of hippy bullshit or something.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra i don't see how an artist who ignores those boundaries automatically deserves more credit than one who intentionally works within them, providing they both excel at what they do..

you don't see the difference? someone that stays within the boundaries is not an artist.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I think its funny that people who critisize are constantly labeled as "elitists" who have nothing better to do than radiate negativity. Most of the time those same people tend to be the most passionate and rooted in the music of anyone I meet.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by gizzymcg tbh ridicule folk like rebel9 and ishkur back cuz they are so desperate to be keyboard gangsters they will say anything thats gona annoy you or upset you. fuck them. enjoy what you are into and voice your opinion cuz i can guarantee theres more folk that agree with most of what you are saying than you might think

I am not very annoyed by Spirit5's post because I hardly read them since his chunks of text often contains one sentence which is his point.
on the other hand I am more annoyed by kids of your kind. The "if you don't like it do it yourself"-family. I despise your kind.

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange you don't see the difference? someone that stays within the boundaries is not an artist.

that's bullcrap, one man's "avant-garde experimentation" is another man's "self-indulged bollocks". discovering where the boundaries of general acceptibility are & challenging them requires alot more talent than flat out ignoring them altogether

this whole issue evades the point anyhow.. the majority of trance producers haven't compromised their sound in the slightest; they're just making what they like to hear.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur We're talking about a whole genre, Jack. Not an artist.

If your rule can be broken by one artist, then why cannot it be broken by every artist? That's no more unrealistic it is to talk about an entire genre leaving the underground and becoming mainstream. Even at the zennith of trance's commercial success, there was still underground trance that was indigestible to the masses.

The idea of a genre doing anything en bloc is purely hypothetical, once the genre has grown beyond its fledgling stage.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I was chased off my track team in high school cause the guys didn't like me nor the coach (didn't really like him to begin with though), and I almost feel it's the same on this board. Sure it's just the internet, but to me..it's almost the same idea. No matter where I go, I face ridicule.... If these guys even bothered to at least talk to me, get to know me in the slightest (i'm not asking them to be my friends) and joked around about it...I wouldn't take it to heart as much cause I know they would be joking. But I don't see it that way with these people.

LOL Dude, harden the fuck up! It's the internet ffs, no need to start crying.

I actually agree with a lot of your posts but it really does become tedious to read your essays. Everyone has a short attention span these days so yes it does get annoying. Do yourself a favor, get your point out in a few sentences and stop crying because it's just the internet. Who gives a fuck what someone else thinks of you, if any of your last posts meant anything you should already know that.

oh and spirit5, take all the time you want to work on shortening your posts, you can do it. I BELIEVE IN YOU

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra oh and spirit5, take all the time you want to work on shortening your posts, you can do it. I BELIEVE IN YOU

I'll try my best...

quote:

Originally posted by ToF LOL Dude, harden the fuck up! It's the internet ffs, no need to start crying. I actually agree with a lot of your posts but it really does become tedious to read your essays. Everyone has a short attention span these days so yes it does get annoying. Do yourself a favor, get your point out in a few sentences and stop crying because it's just the internet. Who gives a fuck what someone else thinks of you, if any of your last posts meant anything you should already know that.

Maybe I care cause there's very few places for me to talk about things I like music. I have met very few people, other than on the net, who are into the same type of music I am into, so this place I had hoped...would be a place to meet others and discuss similar tastes in music. It just turns out to be a pissing match, not some place where actual discussion can take place. Sorry for my long ass replies/essays whatever but it's just a habit...I'm just tired of getting slack for it all the time. I don't expect to be liked or even make friends, just at least be able to discuss things. I'm not crying or anything.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 I am not very annoyed by Spirit5's post because I hardly read them since his chunks of text often contains one sentence which is his point. on the other hand I am more annoyed by kids of your kind. The "if you don't like it do it yourself"-family. I despise your kind.

You really are a petulant child Hamid. anyone that stands up to you you call a "kid" cuz they obviously dont have your level of musical understanding well im sorry to break it to you but thats called ARROGANCE btw. Additionally this makes you a wank in my book

quote:

Originally posted by gizzymcg You really are a petulant child Hamid. anyone that stands up to you you call a "kid" cuz they obviously dont have your level of musical understanding well im sorry to break it to you but thats called ARROGANCE btw. Additionally this makes you a wank in my book

Based on what I've read by you in this thread it seems almost like you're describing yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 If all I like is cheese then what do you suggest I listen to?

I don't suggest you listen to anything. I suggest you listen to what you love to listen to the most. You like cheese, so continue to listen to cheese, it makes no huge difference to me.

Just don't foster any delusions about what it is you listen to, what its effect on you is, and what its overall musical merit is.

Stop comparing your shallow cheese to classical, for instance.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I would just ignore it if it was once or twice, but now it's like..whenever I post, even in the COR (Ted Promo aka Demoted).

My suicide note would be just "?". Because I'm a succinct enigma!

Re: Re: Re: The commodification of trance

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Commercialization is certainly related, but not exactly what I meant. By "commodification" I mean a focus on tangible, static products (widely sold singles, compilations, shirts, shoes, whatever), on fans buying and selling specific objects. The pop model, the "everybody buy buy buy!" model. This can occur even without a genre getting very popular or "commercialized" (unpopular music can still be very commodified if artists market CDs and such to fans incessantly). There's something that appeals to me about the idea of going to an event not knowing the DJ, not knowing the songs that get played, not even being sure when one song starts and another stops, not trying to play the "ID" game or waiting to see if the DJ will play a certain track, and just being enveloped in the music all night. And then leaving and not knowing if I'll ever hear that DJ or any of those tracks again. A beautiful and ephemeral experience with nothing bought or sold, nothing static possessed, just a great time and that's it. I guess I'm after a sense of "timelessness." For me the best way to achieve that is a stream of music where I'm not sure what's coming next or even where the "division" are, but that keeps going on and on without breaking, and I don't know the names of the artists or tracks or anything. Just unending, anonymous, repetitive, transfixing music. That's what the ideal of "trance" is to me I guess. And it would be cool to find some people who shared that ideal.

Best. Post. Ever.

It is also what I seek too.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J If your rule can be broken by one artist, then why cannot it be broken by every artist?

Because, and this is the dead honest truth about it:

There aren't that many terribly good artists out there.

And besides, if every artists was good enough to break the rules, we wouldn't have genres.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra that's bullcrap, one man's "avant-garde experimentation" is another man's "self-indulged bollocks". discovering where the boundaries of general acceptibility are & challenging them requires alot more talent than flat out ignoring them altogether this whole issue evades the point anyhow.. the majority of trance producers haven't compromised their sound in the slightest; they're just making what they like to hear.

that would make them more technicians than artists. i'm not suggesting that that's a bad thing, but to call them innovators or artists is quite another. think of picasso and his experiments with cubism and the others down the line that painted in the cubist style. its not for some unknown reason that a Pablo Picasso cubist masterpiece sold for over $11 million.



while the starting bid for this below is $0.99

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Commercialization is certainly related, but not exactly what I meant. By "commodification" I mean a focus on tangible, static products (widely sold singles, compilations, shirts, shoes, whatever), on all the fans buying lots of specific objects out of adoration for specific artists / performers. The pop model, the "everybody buy buy buy!" model. This can occur even without a genre getting very popular or "commercialized" (unpopular music can still be very commodified if artists market CDs and such to fans incessantly).

Commodity - A comparatively homogeneous product that can typically be bought in bulk.


Commoditisation - The process of becoming a COMMODITY. Micro_chips, for example, started out as a specialised technical innovation, costing a lot and earning their makers a high PROFIT on each chip. Now chips are largely homogeneous: the same chip can be used for many things, and any manufacturer willing to invest in some fairly standardised equip ment can make them. As a result, COMPETITION is fierce and PRICES and profit margins are low. Some economists argue that in today's economy the faster pace of innovation will make the process of commoditisation increasingly common.

to these definitions i would add that the difference between a commidity and a non-commidty is that the consumer does not perceive and distinguishing features in a commodity.

i think many former trance listeners actually perceive this too. hence you read 'all the shit sounds the same'.

sorry, but this (markets, innovation, change, start-ups, etc.) is an area that is interest of mine.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles There's something that appeals to me about the idea of going to an event not knowing the DJ, not knowing the songs that get played, not even being sure when one song starts and another stops, not trying to play the "ID" game or waiting to see if the DJ will play a certain track, and just being enveloped in the music all night. And then leaving and not knowing if I'll ever hear that DJ or any of those tracks again. A beautiful and ephemeral experience with nothing bought or sold, nothing static possessed, just a great time and that's it. I guess I'm after a sense of "timelessness." For me the best way to achieve that is a stream of music where I'm not sure what's coming next or even where the "divisions" between or within tracks are, but that keeps going on and on without breaking, and I don't know the names of the artists or tracks or anything. Just unending, anonymous, repetitive, transfixing music.

i think that's called dementia. srlsy, how would you even find out about the night. most people aren't risk taker so that like to get a tip from a friend. if you want that experience, pick-up your local weekly, tape the pages on a wall, throw a dart at the pages, grab your coat and go.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Because, and this is the dead honest truth about it: There aren't that many terribly good artists out there.

There aren't that many terribly good artists in the underground either. When you get right down to it, most of the music out there, regardless of scene, style or profile, isn't worth the effort. A lot of it is shit, and a lot more is simply dull, or reasonable. Either way it's standing in the way of the good artists.

I see no reason why a body of trance producers could not make eclectic, innovative music that appeals to the mainstream without sacrificing artistic merit.

The problem as I see it, is that nobody has the mindset that characterised acts like Orbital. There is a divide between underground and mainstream, and nearly everyone places themselves or is placed by others on one side or the other. The amount of acts that can satisfy both camps is rapidly diminishing.

If an act makes music that can appeal to mainstream audiences, why should they not get the mainstream recognition they deserve?

there are better examples of cubism lol

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.