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quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Some things take a little experience or getting used to in order to enjoy them, others don't.

Heh. Story time. I used to want to listen to hardcore Metal when I was little because of someone I knew who listend to it. He blasted that shit loud as fuck when we drove around, I thought it was really badass and hardcore. I really wanted to like it, I would buy the same Metal tapes he listend too and play them all the time, ...but I realised I just don't get the same feeling as I do from some of the songs on the radio when I hear it. I thought this was just cause I was young, or because I had to listen too it more, get used too it more before I could truly enjoy it. But it never happend. I still listend to it, but for the image I guess, I never truly enjoyed the music, and I would hide the fact that I loved these songs on the radio. I would hide the cassettes of hit singles I bought, and one time I got walked in on listening to Ice Cube - It was a good day I bought and turned it down as fast as I could and was way embarresed. hahahaha

Anyway I guess the moral of the story for me is, no matter how much you listen to some music and try to get used to it, it won't make you like it, because I grew up constantly listening to metal, and I still can't really get in to it. Maybe it's just me though?

quote:

Originally posted by Pompous SmugFag I totally agree, the average listener out there just doesn't have enough musical experience to appreciate my music!

Heaven forbid that appreciation ever require anything like knowledge, experience, or context. If a five year old can't get it, then to hell with it.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Heaven forbid that appreciation ever require anything like knowledge, experience, or context. If a five year old can't get it, then to hell with it.

What?!! You can't back out now! I thought we were in this together man! Our music just takes a higher level of musical knowledge to appreciate!!!! You can't back down now!

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Originally posted by mysticalninja Anyway I guess the moral of the story for me is, no matter how much you listen to some music and try to get used to it, it won't make you like it, because I grew up constantly listening to metal, and I still can't really get in to it.

Of course. I've tried listening to jazz, but for the most part I just don't "get it." It doesn't move me. I'd be lying if I pretended to be a jazz fan.

On the other hand is classical music. I used to be pretty much totally indifferent to it. But I took a course on it and started searching for stuff on my own and found lots of composers and works I loved, and now I listen to it a lot.

Sometimes something will "click" with you and other times it won't. Just the way it is.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Of course. I've tried listening to jazz, but for the most part I just don't "get it." It doesn't move me. I'd be lying if I pretended to be a jazz fan. On the other hand is classical music. I used to be pretty much totally indifferent to it. But I took a course on it and started searching for stuff on my own and found lots of composers and works I loved, and now I listen to it a lot. Sometimes something will "click" with you and other times it won't. Just the way it is.

Have you seen the people who listen to jazz? Rofl. They're heads are soooo far up their asses. They get so into it! Have you ever been around when they start groovin out and nodding there heads and snaping their fingers and tapping there feet?? looooooool

Nah, I haven't been to a live jazz event.

You can't argue with someone else's personal musical preferences. If they like a particular piece of music, they like it. They don't need a reason. They just like it.

There is no universal, correct, factual way of determining the merits of various pieces of music, to determine in absolute, overall terms, "better" and "worse". There is only personal opinion. If a piece of music touches a certain number of listeners in a particular way, for whatever reason, then it touches them.

You can have your own thoughts as to why it shouldn't be popular, but these thoughts don't matter to the people who like the music. Just like others thoughts that trance music is "repetitive music written by computers" don't matter to fans of trance.

Maybe if a particular artist has, say, a total of five appreciative listeners worldwide, then a case could be made for that artist not being "good". Or maybe it's just terrible promotion. In any case, the artist can't sustain themselves if their message is only appreciated by five people, unless those five people happen to pay the artist heaps of money each year.

Anything beyond that is personal opinion and preference.

quote:

Originally posted by derail You can't argue with someone else's personal musical preferences. If they like a particular piece of music, they like it. They don't need a reason. They just like it. There is no universal, correct, factual way of determining the merits of various pieces of music, to determine in absolute, overall terms, "better" and "worse". There is only personal opinion. If a piece of music touches a certain number of listeners in a particular way, for whatever reason, then it touches them. You can have your own thoughts as to why it shouldn't be popular, but these thoughts don't matter to the people who like the music. Just like others thoughts that trance music is "repetitive music written by computers" don't matter to fans of trance. Maybe if a particular artist has, say, a total of five appreciative listeners worldwide, then a case could be made for that artist not being "good". Or maybe it's just terrible promotion. In any case, the artist can't sustain themselves if their message is only appreciated by five people, unless those five people happen to pay the artist heaps of money each year. Anything beyond that is personal opinion and preference.

Agree with everything here.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut VHS vs. Betamax is a good example of where the more popular product was actually better

Incidentally I read somewhere that it was Betamax that was the better product but the consumers chose VHS.

Anyway, back to the topic...

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Incidentally I read somewhere that it was Betamax that was the better product but the consumers chose VHS.

Yup, Betamax was both superior in picture quality and durability. Not to mention smaller and the player was more compact too. I was a child of the early 70's... I remember a time when a VCR was unheard of.
Damn, I still even remember 8-track cassetes...

I'm going to cry now

Nem

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Incidentally I read somewhere that it was Betamax that was the better product but the consumers chose VHS. Anyway, back to the topic...

Yes. It was actually the porn industry that pushed VHS because they didn't have to money to go with Beta.

quote:

Originally posted by Pompous SmugFag Have you seen the people who listen to jazz? Rofl. They're heads are soooo far up their asses. They get so into it! Have you ever been around when they start groovin out and nodding there heads and snaping their fingers and tapping there feet?? looooooool

HHGHAHAHAHAHHA SO TRUE LOL

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja Anyway I guess the moral of the story for me is, no matter how much you listen to some music and try to get used to it, it won't make you like it, because I grew up constantly listening to metal, and I still can't really get in to it. Maybe it's just me though?

Interesting anecdote. For a couple of years in high school, I was hugely into heavy metal. As far as memory serves, I actually really did like the music at the time. Some of it is still good, although for the most part, that phase ended with graduation.

So was I just listening for the badass image, even though I can clearly remember none of the "cool kids" thinking that it was even remotely badass? Did I somehow, magically, manage to fool myself into actually liking it, and the spell wore off after a few years?

Or maybe, just maybe, it actually appealed to me musically at the time, and I just got sick of it afterwards.

Metalheads are definitely a fringe group. I can't seem to remember ever feeling like I was more sophisticated, though - actually, I remember being pretty embarrassed about it most of the time. But that was what I liked.

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Incidentally I read somewhere that it was Betamax that was the better product but the consumers chose VHS.

That's a common myth, and precisely the reason I mentioned it. People like to believe that the most popular people/products somehow cheated their way to the top, even when it isn't true. There are all sorts of funny (false) reasons stated for the Betamax market disaster, the porn myth being another one.

Betamax, pushed by Sony, failed because it was a closed proprietary format, encumbered by all sorts of IP protections, while VHS was basically wide open. Sony has made this mistake countless times, more recently with Video8, MiniDisc/ATRAC, and their proprietary "memory sticks" used in cameras. They're making the same mistake again with Blu-Ray. Microsoft has also made the same mistakes, for example trying to push the DRM-crippled WMA over the open MP3. Vastly superior graphic formats like JPEG2000 (and to a lesser extent, PNG), have never overtaken the classic JPEG because they're patent-encumbered.

Betamax was an OK product, not really much better or worse than VHS. It had some advantages, but also several disadvantages (i.e. shorter recording times). What really killed it, though, was the vendor lock-in and strict licensing that Sony tried to impose.

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