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This is where the TTC just doesn't do it's math.

It is now cheaper for many work-day commuters to not buy the Metropass.

2 rides per day, 20 days a month = 40 rides per month.

$100/40 = $2.50 per ride.

-------

Tickets are $2.25 each when bought in 10s.

-------

So rather than guarantee revenue with a Metropass purchase, the TTC has decided to penalize the guaranteed revenue source (Metropass users).

All this does is encourage more casual users (or those who have now become casual via ticket purchases).

Stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky reliable? depends on where u live. some routes are more dependable than others. again, that's more on the management side of things. the ttc is disorganized and i'm sure if they did some in house cleaning, not only would they save money on most things (like contracting jobs out to contractors and not doing it themselves) but riders would get a more effecient system.

I doubt any govt owned companies have real incentive to do house cleaning and be more efficient

quote:

privatization would kill a lot of poor preforming routes because private companies want to make money, not lose it. that's something we don't need.

I'd take efficient routes on schedule over slightly less service on poorer performing routes. I know I can adjust my life depending on bus schedule. It's just when buses don't come on time that annoys the hell out of me

^^^not only that the student pass you get at 96 dollars through the university (well the old price is 87.75 until January 2008).

but at 96/40 = 2.40. Still more expensive than buying tickets.

lol. laughable.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess ^^^not only that the student pass you get at 96 dollars through the university (well the old price is 87.75 until January 2008). but at 96/40 = 2.40. Still more expensive than buying tickets. lol. laughable.

but you can still save
2 rides a day = $4.50 ---> 20 working days = $90
going out friday/saturday (or once during the week and once during the weekend) - approx. $9

so with tickets its 99, with a pass it's 96

although before it was much more of significant savings

quote:

Originally posted by SasH21 OMG, I thought it was me...so proud not to fail...

I was talking about you...sorry.

I know an easy way to improve your grade

Let's not forget that there is ano-fare zone in Calgary as well. For several blocks downtown you can jump on and off the system for free at certain times of day.

Imagine a square from Front to Dundas, University to Yonge where you could ride free between 10am-3pm during the week.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. DAS Let's not forget that there is ano-fare zone in Calgary as well. For several blocks downtown you can jump on and off the system for free at certain times of day. Imagine a square from Front to Dundas, University to Yonge where you could ride free between 10am-3pm during the week.

GRT has similar system. Once you pay your fare, the transfer is valid up to 90mins

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker This is where the TTC just doesn't do it's math. It is now cheaper for many work-day commuters to not buy the Metropass. 2 rides per day, 20 days a month = 40 rides per month. $100/40 = $2.50 per ride. ------- Tickets are $2.25 each when bought in 10s. ------- So rather than guarantee revenue with a Metropass purchase, the TTC has decided to penalize the guaranteed revenue source (Metropass users). All this does is encourage more casual users (or those who have now become casual via ticket purchases). Stupid.

ur also forgetting the tax rebate that you get when u file your taxes.

Of course it should be privatized, but having the Province of Ontario take responsibility for this trainwreck of an organization might actually give us one thing to thank McGuinty for.

For one thing, if it's an Ontario service, they would have every incentive to expand the system to at least cover most of the GTA and not just the downtown core. Otherwise it's not really much of a provincial service.

Removing the financial burden from the City of Toronto would also remove Miller's main trump card. No more of this we-need-to-tax-the-shit-out-of-everyone-to-keep-the-buses-running BS. I'd love to say that it would put more onus on the city to start improving the quality of our roads, but I'm sure that won't happen.

I'm not really sure that the Ontario government would actually run the TTC any better than the Toronto government, but I seriously doubt that they could run it much worse. At least the ridiculous burden is spread across more people at the provincial level, and I don't want to hear anything about how it's unfair to Sudbury and Ottawa - screw them, Toronto taxpayers are already subsidizing half of their shit from the PST and provincial income taxes.

Please, take it off the city's hands. Privatization would be fantastic, but anything is better than what we have now.

TTC takeover suspicions played down
GTTA chair says focus is on regional links, not taking control of local transit systems
Oct 25, 2007 04:30 AM
TESS KALINOWSKI
TRANSPORTATION REPROTER
The Greater Toronto Transportation Authority has no interest in operating the TTC, says its chair.

"My board's been clear that they're interested and focused on the regional traveller. They're not interested in trying to take the place of local transit systems," said Rob MacIsaac, responding to reports of speculation among Toronto councillors that the province might take over the TTC.

It's been suggested the GTTA, which eventually is expected to take over GO Transit, would be the natural vehicle for Queen's Park. But MacIsaac said the GTTA is more interested in improving links among regional transit authorities and creating new routes that serve the growing numbers of cross-regional commuters. While that may affect the TTC, "that's quite different from saying we're going to take them over."

TTC chair Adam Giambrone, one of four Toronto representatives on the 11-member GTTA board, said he was "glad to hear officially the GTTA is not interested in taking over the TTC." But, he added, "we haven't heard back from the province officially as to their response."

If the province moved to regionalize transit, Giambrone thinks Toronto would lose. "In most regional models there's a feeling of having to treat everyone equally," he said.

Councillor Gord Perks had similar concerns. "Before the creation of Metro, the TTC ran a profit. When we expanded it to provide transit into Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke ... that's when we started losing money.

"The worry I have is that if we expand the system into the whole GTA, who's going to pay to bring the transit service up to our standard in Richmond Hill? Is that going to be paid for by the people of Richmond Hill or will the TTC have to cut its service in the city to subsidize areas that weren't built for transit?"

Meantime, provincial sources have told the Star the idea of a TTC takeover was raised in cabinet before the election. But it was dismissed because Queen's Park isn't prepared to do the same for other municipal transit systems.

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky Councillor Gord Perks had similar concerns. "Before the creation of Metro, the TTC ran a profit. When we expanded it to provide transit into Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke ... that's when we started losing money.

Say what? Either this dude has a very short memory, or he was counting their $500-million tax share as part of their revenue. The TTC has been running at a net loss for a very, very long time...

Damnit! So close.

Maybe we could petition to upload the TTC...

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess privatize!! and bring in competition!! power to the people.

How would there be competition?
You can't have 2 public transit systems in one city... so if a private company were to take over, they'd be running a monopoly and they'd milk it to the max and raise fares even more.


Transit suck, but it CAN be worse - handing it down to the province will definitely insure its neglect and cause a down fall in TTC services.

Not sure how it can be solved tho... how is the TTC funded now? Half provincial, half private?

quote:

Originally posted by m2j How would there be competition? You can't have 2 public transit systems in one city... so if a private company were to take over, they'd be running a monopoly and they'd milk it to the max and raise fares even more.

that's what I thought too - privatized system will make matters even worse

cost recovery of ttc routes

when none of the bus or streetcar lines make a profit, it's hard to see why a private company would want to buy the ttc.

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky cost recovery of ttc routes when none of the bus or streetcar lines make a profit, it's hard to see why a private company would want to buy the ttc.

They don't make a profit because the operating costs are through the roof. If they could get rid of the unions and the thousands of useless employees, a private company could probably shave 75% off those costs.

quote:

Originally posted by m2j How would there be competition? You can't have 2 public transit systems in one city... so if a private company were to take over, they'd be running a monopoly and they'd milk it to the max and raise fares even more.

Wtf... no offense, but aside from the total disregard for basic economics, did you actually read this before posting? Yeah, you can't have two systems when the system is run by the government (duh). When it isn't government-run, you CAN have competition.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Wtf... no offense, but aside from the total disregard for basic economics, did you actually read this before posting? Yeah, you can't have two systems when the system is run by the government (duh). When it isn't government-run, you CAN have competition.

no offense, but did you actually read my post?
I asked a question - "How would there be competition?"

Clearly there can't be two systems... so how would the competition work?

quote:

Originally posted by m2j no offense, but did you actually read my post? I asked a question - "How would there be competition?" Clearly there can't be two systems... so how would the competition work?

Clearly there could be two systems, if the TTC were private. It's only "clear" that "there can't be two systems" when it's government-run, i.e. public.

Seriously, what are you smoking?

Check out the new Oakville bus



they should have these all around toronto, 24hrs!! that'd be nice

unfortunately fossil fuels are still burned to create the hydrogen to fuel those buses, but good on them for taking some positive steps

I have no idea what Oakville's budget looks like, but as for Toronto, we need transit that actually takes people where they need to go in a reasonable time and at a reasonable comfort level - we definitely do not need to be spending more tax revenue on "environmentally friendly" transit that accomplishes neither of the aforementioned objectives.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut reasonable time and at a reasonable comfort level - [/COLOR][/FONT]

agreed.
looking at the huge lineups and full standing bus loads on ttc buses at york university every single day makes me scratch my head, its not like that line is a money losing service, add some more fucking buses. Its not rocket science

quote:

Originally posted by Tordan +1 get rid of that damn union and then those high paid ttc execs who do absolutely nothing.

I'm not sure it's that simple.

I don't think we need competition. True competition in the public transit space would need to be heavily regulated like the taxi industry is, only x 100. It's an urban planning nightmare trying to have multiple companies developing infrastructure in the downtown core. It is far easier for taxis to compete because their infrastructure (ie, the taxi) is cheap and mobile.

I would suggest doing an RFP to invite bids and strategies from various private companies that would come in to manage the system, but not own it outright. Then one of them would be selected to proceed.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper I would suggest doing an RFP to invite bids and strategies from various private companies that would come in to manage the system, but not own it outright. Then one of them would be selected to proceed.

Government RFCs/RFPs are always a joke. By the time anybody actually gets to comment/propose, the contract has been awarded and the rest is just a formality. And the contracts always go to the most gigantic, inefficient, incompetent corporation; in the case of IT it's Accenture or IBM, I don't know who the players would be in this case.

Just look at how the roads are maintained in Toronto and Ontario. Same deal - let a bunch of people bid on the contract. All of them know that the contract is a cash cow and milk it for all it's worth, giving it the lowest possible priority amongst all their contracts and doing a half-assed job in general.

If you want the system to work, you need actual accountability. The pseudo-private government contracts you're suggesting don't actually provide that, which is why they never work in practice.

What exactly makes you think that transit would either need to be highly regulated OR a planning nightmare? It's very common across the U.S. and it works fine there. And you even have mostly-private, slightly-subsidized companies like GO here that run far more efficiently than the TTC.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut we need transit that actually takes people where they need to go in a reasonable time

The St. Clair route has been driving me insane lately!!! I usually give myself an extra 20 minutes everyday to arrive to work in time. The last couple of days I have actually been late, even with those 20 minutes, because those idiots decided it would be a good idea to make me wait for a streetcar AND a shuttle bus when traveling east. The underground tunnel for St. Clair west isn't even in use, so it baffles me why they decided to start using street cars again!

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