TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Chill Out Room
-- religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah
Pages (6): « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 »

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Fuck do I hate threads like these. To answer whoever the hell it was that asked why I thought Dawkins was a twat it's simply because he's every bit as closed minded as the people he rails against. And with that, I'm done. You kids enjoy your little argument.

Amen Brother!

Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree because you will never understand its merits

there arent any merits of developing statutes from superstition. laws should be able to stand by themselves, without the need to be propped up by unsubstantiated magicks.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN unsubstantiated magicks.

lol at your wizard-talk

...you made me think a little further about my last post and I was thinking about how devout a Christian Dubya is...then I was wondering how many atheists you can find in the 3 levels of government: executive, legislative, and judiciary in all the liberal democratic countries in the world. You'll probably find more of them in Germany and France, but not that many in Canada, UK, Australia, and the U.S. I would expect. Generations of law makers and law defenders in these systems perpetuate these values you love so much because THEY have the ethical values brought to them by religion. Otherwise they wouldn't have been elected or selected.

As an atheist, you are part of a very small minority and the very principles that you want to apply globally are enjoyed due to the efforts of, by and large, God-fearing people.

So you can theorize all you want about the detachment of religion and the law, but directly (i.e. Sharia) or indirectly (the west) it is omnipresent.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Fuck do I hate threads like these.

so i don't get it... do you enjoy exposing yourself to things you hate or do you just lack the self control to stay away?

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH so i don't get it... do you enjoy exposing yourself to things you hate or just lack the self control to stay away?

A little of both.

whoa that was fast...

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH whoa that was fast...

lol

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Fuck do I hate threads like these. To answer whoever the hell it was that asked why I thought Dawkins was a twat it's simply because he's every bit as closed minded as the people he rails against. And with that, I'm done. You kids enjoy your little argument.

Well, if its only the two extremes that are getting published then I choose Dawkins.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree Generations of law makers and law defenders in these systems perpetuate these values you love so much because THEY have the ethical values brought to them by religion.

utter nonsense. religion has nothing to do with the evolution of "moral" values. religious people just like to think this. think about some of the moral "laws" set out by those who wrote the koran and bible (for instance).

there are plenty of guidelines we dismiss because they are completely alien to our modern view of morality. we set these "laws" aside due to rational thought.

religion is not responsible for values.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree So you can theorize all you want about the detachment of religion and the law, but directly (i.e. Sharia) or indirectly (the west) it is omnipresent.

Good job trying to conflate the historical origin of a system with the logical foundation of a system.

That kind of bullshit won't fly with intelligent people, though.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Fuck do I hate threads like these. To answer whoever the hell it was that asked why I thought Dawkins was a twat it's simply because he's every bit as closed minded as the people he rails against. And with that, I'm done. You kids enjoy your little argument.

completely oversimplifying to the point of utter nonsense
he's merely close minded to arguments that offer no evidence to substantiate their claims.
I'm pretty down with that sort of close-mindedness

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Good job trying to conflate the historical origin of a system with the logical foundation of a system.

moot point in this discussion. I'm guessing you're thinking you're one of the intelligent ones? Good for you!

Someone give MrJiveBoJingles a sticker!

Go ahead and make an argument that you have to be religious in order to be ethical and law-abiding. I dare ya.

*gives mr jive a sticker* coz he has yet to be wrong in any of these threads.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN utter nonsense. religion has nothing to do with the evolution of "moral" values. religious people just like to think this. think about some of the moral "laws" set out by those who wrote the koran and bible (for instance). there are plenty of guidelines we dismiss because they are completely alien to our modern view of morality. we set these "laws" aside due to rational thought. religion is not responsible for values.

You don't believe in the divine source of the Quran and Bible (I don't think it's fair to say "those who wrote" them because I'm sure you imply that the messages contained therein were to satisfy some human's agenda, which I completely disagree with) so I don't see a rational argument continuing on this aspect of the issue (as our definitions of rationality are fundamentality different).

Another thing I thought of as I was analyzing your obsession with Star Wars and sci-fi...what do you think the "Force" is a metaphor for?

I wish I could find the article online that I read the other day in Time or MacLean's...totally relevant to this discussion.

It was basically a study done on the nature of what makes us "good" or "evil". And there were a lot of good points about the innate sense of right and wrong.

So yeah...you don't need religion to have morals/ethics/etc.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree what do you think the "Force" is a metaphor for?

The Tao is probably the closest religious or philosophical analogue to the "Force."

quote:

Originally posted by Az completely oversimplifying to the point of utter nonsense he's merely close minded to arguments that offer no evidence to substantiate their claims. I'm pretty down with that sort of close-mindedness

Whatever you'd like to believe is fine with me.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree You don't believe in the divine source of the Quran and Bible (I don't think it's fair to say "those who wrote" them because I'm sure you imply that the messages contained therein were to satisfy some human's agenda, which I completely disagree with) so I don't see a rational argument continuing on this aspect of the issue (as our definitions of rationality are fundamentality different).

of course i don't believe in the divine source, but that is irrelevant to the discussion regarding morality. religion is not a source for it, otherwise we would be having sex with children like mohammed did, stoning prostitutes, offering our daughters to sodomites, having sex with our children etc etc etc.

if we are "picking and choosing" which components of the holy book to adhere to, by what yardstick are we measuring appropriate morality? -rationality.

quote:

Another thing I thought of as I was analyzing your obsession with Star Wars and sci-fi...what do you think the "Force" is a metaphor for?

the force isnt a metaphor. it is an energy field that binds the universe together. life creates it, makes it grow. luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. you must feel the force around you.

in any case, i love religion and gods and magic in fantasy. it is an immense source of enjoyment for me. in real life though its just bollocks, and causing far too many problems that the human race could do without.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Whatever you'd like to believe is fine with me.

you are no fun

quote:

Originally posted by Az you are no fun

I just know better than to get too deep into these conversations with folks who are clearly committed to one view.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: religion is so great, doo-dah doo-dah

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN in any case, i love religion and gods and magic in fantasy. it is an immense source of enjoyment for me. in real life though its just bollocks, and causing far too many problems that the human race could do without.

Honestly, my heart shuddered here. So beautifully put. I'm standing on another front of the same side of you in this war. The only difference between you and me is that I don't think there is something inherently wrong with religion, but with the people who think they're doing the right thing. I agree, that some people have taken the religion too far and caused problems, but I disagree that the only way to get rid of those problems is to get rid of religion.

I'll comment on your other stuff, which I honestly think you need a reality check on because you are taking things so far out of context that...uh...I don't even know how to make a joke about it! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Yes because I'm sure that if we got rid of religion then we would loose our instinctive human traits to: *explore *attain wealth *expand borders *cause harm to others (for some, not all) *racism (for some, not all)

Nope, but we would not be able to hide behind religion when following them. Something else maybe, but no longer in the name of some fictional character in a book.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Nope, but we would not be able to hide behind religion when following them. Something else maybe, but no longer in the name of some fictional character in a book.

let me steal an excerpt from dawkins' book since i know people of faith will avoid exposing themselves to it as a matter of faith...

quote:

It is easy for religious faith, even if it is irrational in itself, to lead a sane and decent person, by rational, logical steps, to do terrible things. There is a logical path from religious faith to evil deeds. There is no logical path from atheism to evil deeds. Of course, many evil deeds are done by individuals who happen to be atheists. But it can never be rational to say that, because of my nonbelief in religion, it would be good to be cruel, to murder, to oppress women, or to perpetrate any of the evils on the Hitchens list. The following quotation from the Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Weinberg has become well known, but it is so devastatingly true that it is worth quoting again and again: �With or without [religion] you�d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.�

quote:

But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.

That's just not true.

One word: nationalism.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.