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-- Yet Another Studio Monitor Thread. Thoughts, Please.
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quote:

Originally posted by StanVoid i wouldn't be able to offer advice on subs since I don't have one but as far as monitors go - i've listened extensively to the Machkie HR824's and the dynaudio bm5a's at the local guitar center, along with a few other models by other manufacturers. I ended up going with the dynaudio's and am very happy with them. As far as the sub goes, I say save your money. Subs are more essential for hip hop and real deep bass productions, most of the bass you hear in trance is audible on most monitors without any sub. Plus they're very tricky to set up and rely much more on room acoustics than nearfield monitors, since they can be placed pretty much in any sort of room as long as they're close to your ears.

i have to dissagree about your hip hop/trance point. there is just as much bass in a trance tune as there is in a hip hop tune, and tbh, a trance crowd are more likely to notice a lack of deep bass/bass quality in the mix than a hip hop crowd are. they just seem more demanding and informed as far as production quality goes.

the real reason you would get a subwoofer is for a larger size room, where smaller monitors cannot move enough air to make the bass audiable. and even then, a yamaha subwoofer is pointless. the response is useless for sub frequency work. subwoofers in studios should be left to people who can afford the best and be able to afford a professional to caliberate them to the room.

if you need speakers to allow mixing of the deepest lows i will say this again... http://www.quested.com/s8r.html

i go on about these but they are seriously amazing for the low work. the amp in them is worth more than all the components that mackie use in their 6 and 8 inch budget models. its amazing!

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 i have to dissagree about your hip hop/trance point. there is just as much bass in a trance tune as there is in a hip hop tune, and tbh, a trance crowd are more likely to notice a lack of deep bass/bass quality in the mix than a hip hop crowd are. they just seem more demanding and informed as far as production quality goes. the real reason you would get a subwoofer is for a larger size room, where smaller monitors cannot move enough air to make the bass audiable. and even then, a yamaha subwoofer is pointless. the response is useless for sub frequency work. subwoofers in studios should be left to people who can afford the best and be able to afford a professional to caliberate them to the room. if you need speakers to allow mixing of the deepest lows i will say this again... http://www.quested.com/s8r.html i go on about these but they are seriously amazing for the low work. the amp in them is worth more than all the components that mackie use in their 6 and 8 inch budget models. its amazing!

While you're right about the Quested beinggreat monitors, the point about bass for hip hop vs. Trance is tottaly subjective. In fact in trance, what a lot of us call "bass" is actually lower mid. Speak to some true dub or raggae producers and they classify bass as being only below 100 hz (some producers I've spoken to say 50 - 80 and that you shouldn't hear bass, just feel it). A lot of trance "basslines" are well above that and some tracks only have harmonics or kicks that go below 60 hz.

Also, if you have a larger room, then buy monitors to fit that room - don't get small speakers and then buy a sub. If your room is large get large driver speakers (8"+).

I've said this in several posts/threads - stay away from subs. There a re simply too many variables at play to make them sound good, especially in home or project studios producing dance music. You can achieve excellent monitoring buy buying the correct speaker (to fit your setup) and using the best listening position possible. After that then look in to room treatment if necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo A good suggestion. I'll probably do that given their reputation. Thanks! I haven't really thought about ADAM monitors. I haven't heard much about them, though (good or bad). I'd have to hear them before purchasing since they don't have a reputation.

well first of all don't pick a certain monitor based on reputaion
but if u want to , check the sound on sound reviews on thos
i had a pair of mackie hr624 and was going for dynaudio bm6a mk2 but i had some problems with supplier so i took the adam....
let me tell u i'm REALLY happy with those.

Adam p11 are super accurate , stereo image is amazing , crossover is a mint and surprisingly the low end BANGS really hard and REALLY accurate aswell.

go and check them , its alot better then the mackies trust me on that.
i have a pretty balanced room and the mackie was alot more muddy on some low end frews and the mids were nice but not more then that.
after two years of working with the mackie i bought the adam and its a whole different story

All I've heard is the Adam A7's but they were pretty damn good. Held up surprisingly well with the Dynaudio BM5a's even though they are much cheaper.

If their more expensive models are the same then I'm sure they are pretty good. It's such a shame they are damn ugly monitors but hell, it's the sound that matters.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN While you're right about the Quested beinggreat monitors, the point about bass for hip hop vs. Trance is tottaly subjective. In fact in trance, what a lot of us call "bass" is actually lower mid. Speak to some true dub or raggae producers and they classify bass as being only below 100 hz (some producers I've spoken to say 50 - 80 and that you shouldn't hear bass, just feel it). A lot of trance "basslines" are well above that and some tracks only have harmonics or kicks that go below 60 hz. Also, if you have a larger room, then buy monitors to fit that room - don't get small speakers and then buy a sub. If your room is large get large driver speakers (8"+). I've said this in several posts/threads - stay away from subs. There a re simply too many variables at play to make them sound good, especially in home or project studios producing dance music. You can achieve excellent monitoring buy buying the correct speaker (to fit your setup) and using the best listening position possible. After that then look in to room treatment if necessary.

a well mixed trance track goes all the way down to 20hz before mastering. if it doesnt then it wont sound as good.

I was able to get to a Guitar Center to compare monitors.

Overall, the Mackie HR824mkIIs were the best. Although they seemed to have more mid-bass than others, the bass extension, stereo field, and sweet spot where amazing. It sounded like there was another speaker in the center of the arrangement.

Second would have been Event SP8. These, somewhat to my surprise, had a very nice over-all sound.

The Dynaudio BM5s where way too "in your face" and the bass extension was hardly present. KRKs where way too intense in the highs.

Just my 2c on those...

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo I was able to get to a Guitar Center to compare monitors. Overall, the Mackie HR824mkIIs were the best. Although they seemed to have more mid-bass than others, the bass extension, stereo field, and sweet spot where amazing. It sounded like there was another speaker in the center of the arrangement. Second would have been Event SP8. These, somewhat to my surprise, had a very nice over-all sound. The Dynaudio BM5s where way too "in your face" and the bass extension was hardly present. KRKs where way too intense in the highs. Just my 2c on those...

glad to hear you finally made it out to a guitar center! The 824's are definitely a great pair of speakers, but beware that their large bass extension tends to make your mixes lack bass on other, more regular systems. So just compensate for that fact when you mix on them. The BM5a's are definitely more in your face and their sound is much more defined tan the 824's. At first I was concerned that they may be boosting the highs too much, but it only appears to be that way because they dont' have the same bass extension as the 824's - so overall, their highs appear to stand out more. I liked that the BM5a's were so crisp and revealing, though - that's why I got them. They reveal everything in your mix, even things as slight as reverb trails. The 824's, on the other hand, didn't give me that accuracy, and it felt like i was listening to them through a tiny wall compared to the bm5a's.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN The HR824's are truly great monitors, but you will have to learn how they sound (as with all) and are comparitively more bass heavy than some of the other monitor speakers listed. Having said that, it is really not be too hard to adjust the 824's (with the switches on the rear) and your mixes to compensate for this. A real bonus of them is that they don't have a really narrow sweet spot, which can be a lifesaver if your room or listening position is not perfect. I know they are great monitors, but the dynaudios have never floated my boat. At my previous job I've demo'd them at least a couple of hundred times for customers (and even though some of them fell in love) they never sounded as good other monitors. Edit: one other thing I've noticed is that shops (like guitar centre) really push the dynaudio's at you. Why?......in my experience, the sales margin was better them.

Glad to hear it alnzo, you'll be very happy with the mackies......for the money I think they are the best in their price bracket, but it does come down to personal choice.
Just as posted before (above quoted) you will have to learn the monitors and set them up correctly for the pronouced bass (really, in the same way you would have to compensate for bass in the other direction when using the BM5's).

By the way, if you can get a good condition used pair of 824 mk1's, there are ridiculous deals and they are still superb monitors (only slightly different from mk2) at the moment but beware - you never know how hard they have been driven or fr how long, or if they are even the same age as one another.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN By the way, if you can get a good condition used pair of 824 mk1's, there are ridiculous deals and they are still superb monitors (only slightly different from mk2) at the moment but beware - you never know how hard they have been driven or fr how long, or if they are even the same age as one another.

A good point. Thanks! I'll be sure to ask this if I purchase a used pair.

Anyone have additional thoughts on the ADAM A7s? They seem to be quite popular, actually. Unfortunatly the Guitar Center I went to did not have any ADAM monitors for me to listen to.

How do they compare to Mackie 824s?

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Anyone have additional thoughts on the ADAM A7s? They seem to be quite popular, actually. Unfortunatly the Guitar Center I went to did not have any ADAM monitors for me to listen to. How do they compare to Mackie 824s?

They are very good monitors in the $1000 price range. I've read a lot of good reviews about them in forums such as gearslutz.

The only downside would be that they do not go down as low as some other monitors, but for the price tag they are hard to beat.

quote:

Originally posted by Getafix They are very good monitors in the $1000 price range. I've read a lot of good reviews about them from in forums such as gearslutz.

i have the A7 and every word is true. amazing monitors.

I have had Tannoy Precision 6D's for over a year now and bought a Tannoy TS10 Sub 2 weeks ago, thoroughly impressed by the sound of the monitors/sub combo.

Still need to have a few more weeks to adjust to the extra bass so i can sort crossover and bass amount out, other than that it seems to be less fatiguing during long sessions and also a lot clearer too.

A quick question on this subject; anyone tried the classic Yamaha NS-10 for EDM?

quote:

Originally posted by Falck A quick question on this subject; anyone tried the classic Yamaha NS-10 for EDM?

nope, but i dont think you will be able to find a pair that havent been thrashed by now.

the only reason people used them is because people used them. everyone i know who has used them says they are poo and would rather work with a $500 pair of behringers lol.

I'm really confused about the NS-10, they seem to be either heaven or hell, depending on who you talk to. I can get hold of a pair for around $700-$1000 here in sweden...

quote:

Originally posted by Falck I'm really confused about the NS-10, they seem to be either heaven or hell, depending on who you talk to. I can get hold of a pair for around $700-$1000 here in sweden...

I've been thinking about (at some point) getting a pair just to see what all the talk is about. You need an amp with them since they're passive.

Got my Mackie HR824s in just yesterday. Overall, they sound great. I can hear what some people are talking about when they say the mids are a little smushed and that it lacks low-end extension.

But in terms of low end extension, when you put a low-pass filter on the track at about 100hz, those two speakers can rattle the room with low end. So turning the filter on is equivalent to turning on and muting a sub to check the low-end response.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm everyone i know who has used them says they are poo and would rather work with a $500 pair of behringers lol.

What would Behringers have anything to do with the NS10s?

quote:

Originally posted by spolitta What would Behringers have anything to do with the NS10s?

He said he'd rather work with Behringers than with NS-10's, I dont think what he said is really that hard to understand is it?

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm nope, but i dont think you will be able to find a pair that havent been thrashed by now. the only reason people used them is because people used them. everyone i know who has used them says they are poo and would rather work with a $500 pair of behringers lol.

the reason people swear by the ns-10's is because they work great as a reference as to how your mix will sound on the average aiwa/sony/technics system. they are no use as your primary monitors, but they were great for producers wanting to sound great to the general public a decade ago. im unsure if they will provide good reference to how the public hear music these days (using shitty ipod docking stations/minisystems as their main hi-fi systems) - maybe it would be a good idea to reference work through ipods and the matching docking sound stations to get an idea of what the listener will hear. they give you a real life 'bedroom/livingroom' reference.

After using the Mackie HR824s for a good 12 hours or so, I definitely don't think I'll need a sub. However, one thing I've noticed is that it can be very easy to become acclimated to the sub bass and, thus, think the speakers don't reproduce enough bass.. maybe this is a form of ear fatigue.

What I tried doing is producing with a high pass filter on the track at about 100hz... and then turning it off when I want to hear the bass... kinda like turning a sub on/off. When doing this, my ears do not become acclimated I can hear sub frequencies VERY well when I need to.. plus I won't piss off neighbors/roommates as much.

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