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-- Benazir Bhutto assassinated
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| Originally posted by Lesbianosaur Pure speculation of course, but she is a woman in a position of power. And she has pledged to work more closely with the US in the War on Terror. Don't know if those will be the reasons cited, but I'm sure they are factors. |
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| Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Hmm, interesting. I didn't realize this was yet another West conspiracy against Russia. Perhaps you could entertain us with evidence that supports your assertion? I'll start with one of mine - a Russian writer named Vadim Erlikman who believed there were 1.5 million killed in executions. He also has 5 million from gulags, and 1.7 million from deportations in his book "Poteri narodonaseleniia v XX veke: spravochnik." (Moscow, 2004). There's other non-Westerners listed here as well: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Stalin Here's another non-westerner: and yet another: and that lovely famine thingy imposed by Stalin was just terrific too: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/e...atcroft2004.pdf and you're more than welcome to attempt to undermine historians such as this guy who's done quite a bit of homework on your sick hero: http://sovietinfo.tripod.com/WCR-German_Soviet.pdf and http://sovietinfo.tripod.com/WCR-Scale_Repression.pdf and this guy: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...f/v43i3a06p.pdf |
Dangerous world out there!
Ok, Saying Al Qaeda is responsible for this is a bit premature and probably the easiest answer, but it doesnt mean its correct. Al Qaeda is the scape goat answer in my opinion. Benazair Bhutto was about to win the election and throw out Musharraff. This whole thing stinks bad. Musharraff doesnt want elections, he want his grip on power. There are 70 free floating nukes in Pakistan, this should be a real concern for the world, more so than Iran. So all pay attention, cause the world just got a whole lot more dangerous.
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| Originally posted by DJ Shibby And how many Natives* had to die in order to allow America to become what it is? If we can't even remember our own manifest "destiny" in relative perspective, how can you not question "facts" estimating convenient evil figures like 20-40 million Russians dead? |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Sorry, but anyone else see this as a bad example? The situations aren't even close to being the same... |
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| Originally posted by DJ Shibby And how many Natives* had to die in order to allow America to become what it is? If we can't even remember our own manifest "destiny" in relative perspective, how can you not question "facts" estimating convenient evil figures like 20-40 million Russians dead? |
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| Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Well when someone makes a claim that we treated the American Indians properly in the past by the same token that someone asserting that Stalin was "good", then that argument will be appropriate I suppose. I did not see anyone make that argument yet, and it's not that I don't agree that our country was incredibly shitty to Native Americans, but it simply wasn't brought up at this time. |
Didn't take long, the Pakistan government have blamed al-Qaida for the assassination: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7163307.stm
From the same report, however, it seems that Bhutto's supporters place the blame squarely on Musharaf's regime
Interestingly, Bhutto blamed the previuous attempt on her life on "rogue elements" in the Pakistani intelligence services - altho it's unclear whether that means she was blaming Musharaf or al-Qaida 
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Didn't take long, the Pakistan government have blamed al-Qaida for the assassination: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7163307.stm From the same report, however, it seems that Bhutto's supporters place the blame squarely on Musharaf's regime Interestingly, Bhutto blamed the previuous attempt on her life on "rogue elements" in the Pakistani intelligence services - altho it's unclear whether that means she was blaming Musharaf or al-Qaida |
I guess it will end up in a pointing the finger game....No one takes responsibility but points at the other.......Just like 9/11....Some people think its Bush Administration and some think its Al Qaida.
No because al-Qaida admitted they did 9/11, lets wait and see if they admit to this, or if they deny it...
AFAIK, al-Qaida always accept responsibility for their attacks, so if there is no admission by al-Qaida for this attack then alarm bells certainly will start ringing...
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Maybe Musharaf IS al-Qaida!! |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley No because al-Qaida admitted they did 9/11, lets wait and see if they admit to this, or if they deny it... AFAIK, al-Qaida always accept responsibility for their attacks, so if there is no admission by al-Qaida for this attack then alarm bells certainly will start ringing... |
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Al-Qaeda Claims Responsibility for Benazir Bhutto�s Murder Powered by BlogBurst POSTED: Friday, December 28, 2007 Al-Qaeda has claimed responsibility for the murder of Pakistan�s opposition leader Benazir Bhutto in a bomb explosion on Thursday, local television channels said on Friday. Bhutto died during surgery from injuries sustained in a suicide bomb attack, which occurred when shots were fired by an assassin, who then blew himself up as Bhutto left an election rally in Rawalpindi, near Pakistan�s capital city of Islamabad. Initial reports said around 20 people were killed and at least 15 injured in the blast. �She was a loyal supporter of America and pledged to defeat mujahideen and for that she was eliminated,� Pakistani television quoted notorious al-Qaeda field commander in Afghanistan Mustafa Abu al-Yazid as saying in a satellite phone call. Al-Yazid, an Egyptian national, also known as Sheikh Saeed, is an original member of al-Qaeda�s Shura leadership council and has been a trusted adviser to Osama bin Laden for more than a decade. No official comment on the report has so far followed. Bhutto, 54, who had twice been the country�s prime minister, was about to run in parliamentary elections January 8 as leader of the Pakistan People�s Party (PPP). She returned to Pakistan in October after more than eight years of self-imposed exile. Her arrival was overshadowed by a terrorist act which took the lives of 140 people and injured 500 as hundreds of thousands of people lined the streets to greet her homecoming. She had criticized the government of incumbent Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf for failing to take strong action against al-Qaeda and vowed to bring stability to the country amid the recent surge of Islamist violence. Bhutto was pronounced dead late on Thursday in a hospital in Rawalpindi and her body arrived in her family village in Sindh province for burial on Friday, Reuters reported. Meanwhile, members of the U.N. Security Council have voted unanimously to condemn the assassination of the Pakistani opposition leader and urged all nations to help bring those responsible for �this reprehensible act� to justice amid fears that the terrorist act may destabilize the situation in the country. Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday he hoped those responsible for the assassination of Pakistan�s opposition leader Benazir Bhutto will be found and punished. �Forces of terrorism are challenging not only Pakistan, but the international community. We hope that the organizers of this crime will be found and appropriately punished,� Putin said in a statement addressed to the Pakistan leader, Pervez Musharraf. Source RIA Novosti |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Oh but they have... >>Source<< |
This is a classic Al-Qaeda style attack. Masharaff and his military haven't employed suicide bombers as a tactic, especially when increasingly fragile law and order is threatened by such events, which threatens their very regime.
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| Transcript of alleged al-Qaida intercept By The Associated Press 1 hour, 8 minutes ago A transcript released by the Pakistani government Friday of a purported conversation between militant leader Baitullah Mehsud, who is referred to as Emir Sahib, and another man identified as a Maulvi Sahib, or Mr. Cleric. The government alleges the intercepted conversation proves al-Qaida was behind the assassination of Benazir Bhutto: Maulvi Sahib: Peace be on you. Mehsud: Peace be on you, too. Maulvi Sahib: How are you Emir Sahib? Mehsud: Fine. Maulvi Sahib: Congratulations. I arrived now tonight. Mehsud: Congratulations to you, too. Maulvi Sahib: They were our men there. Mehsud: Who were they? Maulvi Sahib : There were Saeed, the second was Badarwala Bilal and Ikramullah was also there. Mehsud: The three did it? Maulvi Sahib: Ikramullah and Bilal did it. Mehsud: Then congratulations to you again. Maulvi: Where are you? I want to meet with you? Mehsud: I am in Makin. Come I am at Anwar Shah's home. Maulvi Sahib: OK I will come. Mehsud: Do not inform their family presently. Maulvi Sahib: Right. Mehsud: It was a spectacular job. They were very brave boys who killed her. Maulvi Sahib: Praise be to God. I will give you more details when I come. Mehsud: I will wait for you. Congratulation once again. Maulvi Sahib: Congratulations to you as well. Mehsud: Any service? Mauvliv: Thank you very much? Mehsud: Peace be on you. Maulvi: Same to you. |
It does smell like al Qaeda, however there's a couple of things that concern me. The first is the initial scrubbing and washing away the crime scene completely by the Pakistani government with hoses, essentially eliminating all forensic evidence at the scene of the crime.
The other thing that disturbs me is the Pakistani gov't claiming that it wasn't a bullet that killed her, but a head trauma from the initial blast despite eye witnesses and doctor statements claiming a bullet wound in the neck killed her.
In any case, this tragedy didn't do Musharaff any favors, nor did it help the US much for that matter. The question that comes to mind is who does this assassination benefit the most, and who does it hurt? When examining through this lens I'd say the fingerprints of al Qaeda tend to be showing a bit more than anyone else, at least at this time.
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| Originally posted by Krypton This is a classic Al-Qaeda style attack |
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| Masharaff and his military haven't employed suicide bombers as a tactic |
Bhutto certainly believed it would be Musharaf and the intelligence agencies would be behind her eventual death:
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| Bhutto, who was assassinated on Thursday, wrote to Blitzer that if anything happened to her, "I would hold (Pakistani President Pervez) Musharraf responsible." ... Bhutto wrote to Blitzer that "I have been made to feel insecure by his (Musharraf's) minions," that specific improvements had not been made to her security arrangements, and that the Pakistani leader was responsible. ... Siegel said he did not believe Bhutto's opinions had changed since she wrote the e-mail. Her message specifically mentioned she had requested four police vehicles surrounding her vehicle when traveling; Siegel said it seemed evident from pictures taken at the assassination scene that the request wasn't fulfilled. Bhutto did not necessarily believe that Musharraf wanted her dead, but felt many people around him did, he said. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5...XvZdmAD8TQK9501 |
Here's a good article from the BBC weighing up the various theories about who was behind the attack. There's a good chance, imo, that if al-Qaida (or other Islamist groups) were behind the attack, then elements in the ISI were also involved as both hated Bhutto and wanted her out of the way...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7163286.stm
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Well that story has been around a bit before it got to Reuters! Reuters got it from Net News Publisher, who in turn got it from Russian news company RIA Novosti. It's the same article and only quotes "local television channels" as claiming Egyptian Mustafa Abu al-Yazid has accepted responsibility, yet the Pakistani government are claiming that they have evidence that Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud orchestrated the attacks. Perhaps the two are related, who knows, but "local television channels" does not, imo, constitute hard evidence! Al-Qaida certainly has the means to make announcements to the world's media without having to go through local Pakistani press agencies so I'd be ready to accept al-Qaida involvement a hell of a lot more if the major news corps around the world had access to their confession... |
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That said, I am in no way ruling out al-Qaida, because they are one of the obvious major suspects. But equally suspect are Musharaf, Nawaz Sharif and the ISI. All stood to gain from Bhutto's elimination and all have the means and motivation to carry out the attack If Musharaf or the ISI are involved, then certainly expect al-Qaida to be blamed and for "evidence" to appear... |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Appears to be lots to me... http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&ta...tnG=Search+News |
), blaming al-Qaida.| quote: |
| (AGI/AFP) - Islamabad, Dec. 28 - 'Al-Qaeda' has formally claimed responsibility for the murder of Benazir Bhutto, the former prime minister and leader of the opposition party in Pakistan who was killed yesterday in a terrorist attack in Rawalpindi: the news was transmitted by the Pakistani television station 'Ari', even though its announcement was quickly toned down by Javed Cheema, a spokesman for Islamabad's Home office. The spokesman pointed out that his government "knew nothing" of the alleged claim for responsibility but quickly added that the persons responsible for the act were probably "the same extremist elements that in the past committed acts of terrorism within the country", referring to the underground organisation created by Osama bin Laden and to his allies the afghan Taliban, who are behind a wave of attacks that this year have already cost some eight hundred lives. |
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| Musharaf is screwed from all angles. His dealings with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are well known and he simply becomes a political martyr in the their overall agenda. |
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| If the culprits are found to be from outside, such as al-Qaeda or the Taleban leadership, then this could possibly have a unifying effect on Pakistanis, most of whom are appalled at this kind of extremist violence that has destroyed a national figure. |
FYI, this is the original article attributing the attack to Mustafa Abu Al-Yazid:
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/Englis...=1.0.1710322437
Syed Saleem Shahzad, the journo, is the one he contacted, which must also be the source the local Pakistani TV stations were using for their reports (as reported in your earlier article)
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| Originally posted by Krypton http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071228...q8Rf8MaRehvaA8F |
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| A transcript released by the Pakistani government Friday of a purported conversation between militant leader Baitullah Mehsud, who is referred to as Emir Sahib |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley In what way does al-Qaida have the copyright to this style of attack? What?! Have you never heard of Kashmir?!?!? |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley I'm sorry but |
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