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-- Willie Nelson: Twin Towers Were Imploded On 9/11
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Originally posted by donnybrasco What "questions" are you talking about? Please list a few.

How much did the American government know before the attacks occurred and what is the Saudi connection that they are so desperate for nobody to find out about?

Good enough?

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Originally posted by George Smiley How much did the American government know before the attacks occurred and what is the Saudi connection that they are so desperate for nobody to find out about? Good enough?

I think this question has been answered already BY the U.S. Government, no?

There apparently was knowledge of some of the Hijackers being in this country by various unrelated branches of the Government. Some of the Hijackers were in flight training, and some were "missing" students, etc.

But did the Government connect all of the dots and should they have then been able to discern what was going to happen on 9-11? Maybe. Maybe not. I think it was as it appeared to be; Bloated bureaucracies that are great at gathering intel, but terrible at disseminating it and what's more, SHARING it!

But if you're wondering if there was a grand plan to ignore this data for the sake of letting an attack proceed, that would be comparable to another "conspiracy" which is absurd.

Good enough?

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Originally posted by donnybrasco I think this question has been answered already BY the U.S. Government, no? There apparently was knowledge of some of the Hijackers being in this country by various unrelated branches of the Government. Some of the Hijackers were in flight training, and some were "missing" students, etc. But did the Government connect all of the dots and should they have then been able to discern what was going to happen on 9-11? Maybe. Maybe not. I think it was as it appeared to be; Bloated bureaucracies that are great at gathering intel, but terrible at disseminating it and what's more, SHARING it! But if you're wondering if there was a grand plan to ignore this data for the sake of letting an attack proceed, that would be comparable to another "conspiracy" which is absurd. Good enough?

No, the government has provided an answer, which doesn't necessarily mean it's the answer

I also noticed you avoided the Saudi question altogether...

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Originally posted by George Smiley No, the government has provided an answer, which doesn't necessarily mean it's the answer

If you don't believe this answer, (which by the way, no one on either side of the isle doubts), then please tell me what YOU think the "truth" is?

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Originally posted by George Smiley I also noticed you avoided the Saudi question altogether...

What "Saudi Connection" are you talking about? I ignored it because you are the one being vague. Be more direct and I can answer you more directly.

quote:

Originally posted by LuvTiesto HOW DID THE TOWERS FALL WHEN THERE WERE NO PLANES I NEVER SAW A PLANE AND THEY BOTH FELL WITH 15 OTHER BUILDINGS GOOD JOB MATHEMATICIANS, YOU DEBUNKED IT!

Hi Trancer-x!

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Originally posted by donnybrasco If you don't believe this answer, (which by the way, no one on either side of the isle doubts), then please tell me what YOU think the "truth" is?

The fuck should I know?! You'd have to be a member of the intelligence services to say what the "truth" is and I'm not! I do know, for a fact, that the American government have told outright lies in order to justify certain policy goals (eg claiming al-Qaida was linked to Iraq). So if you want me to blindly believe everything the American government says as Gospel then no chance mate

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What "Saudi Connection" are you talking about? I ignored it because you are the one being vague. Be more direct and I can answer you more directly.

Didn't the initial report of 9/11 black out information about Saudi Arabia? Has this information ever been declassified?

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Originally posted by George Smiley The fuck should I know?! You'd have to be a member of the intelligence services to say what the "truth" is and I'm not! I do know, for a fact, that the American government have told outright lies in order to justify certain policy goals (eg claiming al-Qaida was linked to Iraq). So if you want me to blindly believe everything the American government says as Gospel then no chance mate

Sounds to me like you don't believe anything they say, and that this is your default standing (and they have provided answers for everyone of the topics you just addressed...maybe you just didn't like the answers so you're phishing?)

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Originally posted by George Smiley Didn't the initial report of 9/11 black out information about Saudi Arabia? Has this information ever been declassified?

This is surprising? They're not going to let our enemies (Al Qeada) be privy to certain sensitive material. Blacking out specific Intel happens all the time, when it comes to national security. This means nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco Sounds to me like you don't believe anything they say, and that this is your default standing (and they have provided answers for everyone of the topics you just addressed...maybe you just didn't like the answers so you're phishing?)

Tell me something, do you believe everything the US administration says?

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This is surprising? They're not going to let our enemies (Al Qeada) be privy to certain sensitive material. Blacking out specific Intel happens all the time, when it comes to national security. This means nothing.

The only way you are in any kind of position to make that comment is if you have access to that classified intelligence, you don't. You seem to be the antithesis of the conspiraloons - blindly believe anything the government say (and even go as far as to produce your own analysis to fit in neatly with what they say)

You claim the intelligence was blacked out because of a fear your enemies would have access to that information, but ALL the information in that report concerns the events surrounding 9/11, it is not just some random collection of intelligence on Saudi nationals. Therefore, your enemies would already have access to that information because they were the ones that did 9/11! Therefore, your argument above doesn't carry much weight.

If the information was blacked out it was either to conceal damaging information or to conceal the identities of people who, if connected to the 9/11 attacks, would jepordise US-Saudi relations (something the US would avoid at all costs). They are not concealing sensetive information from al-Qaida (who already have access to all that infomation), they are concealing it from those that might use it to cause a massive disruption to US-Saudi relations - the US public...

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Originally posted by George Smiley Tell me something, do you believe everything the US administration says? The only way you are in any kind of position to make that comment is if you have access to that classified intelligence, you don't. You seem to be the antithesis of the conspiraloons - blindly believe anything the government say (and even go as far as to produce your own analysis to fit in neatly with what they say) You claim the intelligence was blacked out because of a fear your enemies would have access to that information, but ALL the information in that report concerns the events surrounding 9/11, it is not just some random collection of intelligence on Saudi nationals. Therefore, your enemies would already have access to that information because they were the ones that did 9/11! Therefore, your argument above doesn't carry much weight. If the information was blacked out it was either to conceal damaging information or to conceal the identities of people who, if connected to the 9/11 attacks, would jepordise US-Saudi relations (something the US would avoid at all costs). They are not concealing sensetive information from al-Qaida (who already have access to all that infomation), they are concealing it from those that might use it to cause a massive disruption to US-Saudi relations - the US public...

let me present a counter thesis behind the censorship of the documents...

first off, i think the US government is the biggest collection of wankjobs on the continent (well behind our own conservative government that is..........sssss stephen harper.... he even sounds snake like)

What if the information they concealed outlined the loop holes that were exploited byt eh 9/11 hijackers? wouldn't releasing this information provide a blueprint for future endavours to developways to exploit the loopholes again? Because lets face it, try as they might, the US gov could not seal up a loophole, or a border for that matter, to save themsleves....

It would be the same as releasing detailed specific information as to how timmothy mcveigh constructed his truck bomb that hit the oklahoma federal building. That would basically release instructions how to build a truck bomb, not the brigtest move.

While alot of the censorship in the 9/11 report may look suspicious, and it could very well have someting to do with government implication, i think it is more probably that it legitimately has implications on national security by not divulging exactly how the hijackers circumvented the numerous security checks in place.

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp let me present a counter thesis behind the censorship of the documents... first off, i think the US government is the biggest collection of wankjobs on the continent (well behind our own conservative government that is..........sssss stephen harper.... he even sounds snake like) What if the information they concealed outlined the loop holes that were exploited byt eh 9/11 hijackers? wouldn't releasing this information provide a blueprint for future endavours to developways to exploit the loopholes again? Because lets face it, try as they might, the US gov could not seal up a loophole, or a border for that matter, to save themsleves.... It would be the same as releasing detailed specific information as to how timmothy mcveigh constructed his truck bomb that hit the oklahoma federal building. That would basically release instructions how to build a truck bomb, not the brigtest move. While alot of the censorship in the 9/11 report may look suspicious, and it could very well have someting to do with government implication, i think it is more probably that it legitimately has implications on national security by not divulging exactly how the hijackers circumvented the numerous security checks in place.

That theory doesn't work tho, because as I said above, any information relating to the practicalities of mounting an attack on US soil are obviously already known to al-Qaida types, because they obviously already have that information

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley That theory doesn't work tho, because as I said above, any information relating to the practicalities of mounting an attack on US soil are obviously already known to al-Qaida types, because they obviously already have that information

I think they're worried about broadcasting that information to other groups that might be interested in a copy-cat crime or what have you.

I don't really have any questions/criticisms of what happened before 9/11 so much as what happened thereafter - the evacuation of the bin Laden family from US soil without questioning, for instance, seems completely counter-intuitive especially when considering this Administration's later penchant for detaining people interminably on the slightest provocation.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov I think they're worried about broadcasting that information to other groups that might be interested in a copy-cat crime or what have you.

I'm sorry but that smacks of clutching at straws to defend the government. Those who planned the attacks have every last bit of knowledge about how the attack was carried out. They were not in the planes and therefore it is safe to assume that that information has been widely circulated

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Originally posted by George Smiley I'm sorry but that smacks of clutching at straws to defend the government. Those who planned the attacks have every last bit of knowledge about how the attack was carried out. They were not in the planes and therefore it is safe to assume that that information has been widely circulated

It's consistent with government strategy though. I'm not going to defend this Administration for its actions after 9/11, but I do think they are erring on the side of safety - it is safe to assume that al-Qaeda has the organizational capacity and know-how to launch such an attack, which is why the US is (supposed to be) going after high-ranking al-Qaeda members to eradicate that institutional knowledge. We've been somewhat unsuccessful it is true, but the goal was to isolate and destroy al-Qaeda and their capacity to launch such attacks in the future.

In the meantime, I'm sure the government isn't keen on passing around information on how we were successfully attacked to any groups that might not already know how to best hit us - groups that may not be currently associated with al-Qaeda or may have completely different aims and objectives. In the US we are blessed with a lot of domestic crazies as well that don't have the organization of a transnational terrorist entity but certainly have the desire to bring our government to its knees.

So I'm not saying the government was right persay, but I do see an argument for why they may have blacked some information out.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I'm sorry but that smacks of clutching at straws to defend the government. Those who planned the attacks have every last bit of knowledge about how the attack was carried out. They were not in the planes and therefore it is safe to assume that that information has been widely circulated

while this is undoubtably true, they may, however, not been aware of what aspects of their plan actually succeeded in slipping throught he cracks.

and WTF does "that smacks of clutching at straws" mean /cannuck

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov So I'm not saying the government was right persay, but I do see an argument for why they may have blacked some information out.

But I think we do know that the content of the blacked out relates to Saudi Arabia. That again does not tie into your theory about the US blacking out information that might prove useful to terrorists...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley But I think we do know that the content of the blacked out relates to Saudi Arabia. That again does not tie into your theory about the US blacking out information that might prove useful to terrorists...

no one is doubting the fact that the US administration is in bed with the saudi's.... i just hope they get alot of sand in their crotch.....


If anything, the information was blacked out to protect the american - saudi interests because of the saudi government's complacency in dealing with terrorism. Revoking the citizenship of known terrorists does not = stopping their terrorist activities....


either way, i dont think it ammounts to a US backed attack on the twin towers.


PS exactly 6 days and 23 hours from this moment i will be in london on my way to a bar......... and in 16 days and 23 hours i will boarding a plane bound for cannukistan while nursing the worst hangover known to man.....

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp either way, i dont think it ammounts to a US backed attack on the twin towers.

I'm not saying is does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by George Smiley I'm not saying is does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my point being, it is not going to be the golden bullet that makes the cause of the pocket change followers legitimate.

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp my point being, it is not going to be the golden bullet that makes the cause of the pocket change followers legitimate.

Eh?!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Eh?!

now your speaking my language

What i meant was, even if the blacked out information has to do with un ethical protection of american saudi interests, it wouldnt be the magical bullet the conspiracy nuts are looking for to prove the validity of their bullshit theorys....

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp now your speaking my language What i meant was, even if the blacked out information has to do with un ethical protection of american saudi interests, it wouldnt be the magical bullet the conspiracy nuts are looking for to prove the validity of their bullshit theorys....

Well that only matters to them, not to me. I am extremely critical of US-Saudi relations, its completely hypocritical and only serves the interests of the mega-rich elite. That they would withold evidence and information about an event that claimed over 3,000 lives to protect their interests from deserved public criticism (that might hamper those interests) only reenforces my view that the relationship with Saudi Arabia is completely wrong

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Originally posted by George Smiley Well that only matters to them, not to me. I am extremely critical of US-Saudi relations, its completely hypocritical and only serves the interests of the mega-rich elite. That they would withold evidence and information about an event that claimed over 3,000 lives to protect their interests from deserved public criticism (that might hamper those interests) only reenforces my view that the relationship with Saudi Arabia is completely wrong

and that sir, i will agree with.

Quite amazing to find so many shills on a trance forum.

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon

9/11 widows call for new investigation after revelations of White House, commission ties

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Originally posted by WayWord Quite amazing to find so many shills on a trance forum. 9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon 9/11 widows call for new investigation after revelations of White House, commission ties

even more amazing is the numerous alts created by trancer-x

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp even more amazing is the numerous alts created by trancer-x

Maybe these are his Myspace friends that he threatened to unleash on us!

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