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-- dear pirates...
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And for the record... I bought titan quest... and the expansion.

The expansion was a fucking joke... with the rubber banding issues... and in particular the map editor doesn't work at all (you can't add or modify monsters... which obviously makes it pretty useless).

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter It still doesn't change anything...

which part exactly?

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"We had one reviewer who didn't know he could portal back to town" and how is that not your fault or bad luck? And I doubt that you've had that much more badluck than anyone else.

what - that reviewers are stupid and couldnt work a tutorial, read the manual, or notice a tooltip?

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"Hardwire manufacturers are making crappy products." Is that suggesting that other game makers don't have to deal with that? Seriously.

that PC games are awful to write for because of all the different technologies making coding (and support) really hard? where did he state that other developers dont have to deal with it?

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Why didn't you design a program that detects what stuff your computers running and what driver version? If this was such a major point.

just reeks of a lack of understanding of how PCs actually work.

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For every idiotic review of TQ there is going to be an idiotic review of something else. Seriously

not true. the big and influential magazines/websites make anything else irrelevant, if they make a mistake it can we be game over.

Well reviewers jobs are to review games for the average person and if one in 10 reviewers can't work out how to portal than maybe 1 in 10 people can't either (although admitably it was pretty damn obvious). It really just depends on which reviewer it was... and how big they were.

"You lack understanding of how a pc works". Well then explain it to me... I know it'd be a lot of work but aren't they losing a lot of money because of this? I'm not sure... but surely getting a program to check registry isn't that hard.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles How is making a copy of a thing the same as stealing that thing? That's what I don't get. Go back to the painting example. Am I stealing the painting as I paint a copy of it?

I think it's an apples and oranges comparison you're making. How many people are generally involved in the creation and marketing of a painting?



And I might even be willing to make the argument that even in the case of the painting, you are indeed stealing it. Of course, what does and does not constitute the theft of an idea may be a matter of debate to some - but when it comes to how you're describing intellectual properties, you might as well use the words "copy" and "steal" interchangeably as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter "You lack understanding of how a pc works". Well then explain it to me... I know it'd be a lot of work but aren't they losing a lot of money because of this? I'm not sure... but surely getting a program to check registry isn't that hard.

because how would this work/fix anything? its not going to prevent conflicts. new hardware is coming out all the time (think of how much hardware is released in a gaming production cycle of 3 years) you can't possibly anticipate and check for all pieces of hardware, which is why there are problems.

factor that into the infinite types of software that can cause the same issues - having a program to check the registry is pointless if the program is unaware that combination X = crash.

Welp, I'm gonna watch some porno.

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Originally posted by RJT I think it's an apples and oranges comparison you're making. How many people are generally involved in the creation and marketing of a painting? And I might even be willing to make the argument that even in the case of the painting, you are indeed stealing it. Of course, what does and does not constitute the theft of an idea may be a matter of debate to some - but when it comes to how you're describing intellectual properties, you might as well use the words "copy" and "steal" interchangeably as far as I'm concerned.

especially if we're focusing on the loss of revenue, not the physical characteristic of the medium in question. in the case of the painting, its call forgery.

anyway, i still dont see what the point of the semantic argument is. its costing the developers money, how that isnt "stealing" by some i'll never know (or care). all i do know is my favourite past time is becoming more and more generic due to lacklustre game sales.

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Originally posted by RJT And I might even be willing to make the argument that even in the case of the painting, you are indeed stealing it. Of course, what does and does not constitute the theft of an idea may be a matter of debate to some - but when it comes to how you're describing intellectual properties, you might as well use the words "copy" and "steal" interchangeably as far as I'm concerned.

I think we just have different ideas of what "steal" means. When I think of "stealing," I think of a situation where somebody makes off with something I own, after which I no longer have it; it's a situation where somebody deprives me of something.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN because how would this work/fix anything? its not going to prevent conflicts. new hardware is coming out all the time (think of how much hardware is released in a gaming production cycle of 3 years) you can't possibly anticipate and check for all pieces of hardware, which is why there are problems. factor that into the infinite types of software that can cause the same issues - having a program to check the registry is pointless if the program is unaware that combination X = crash.

Well if it detected that your program was crashing because you had an outdated driver... that'd help the stupids.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN in the case of the painting, its call forgery.

It's not forgery until you try to pass it off as an original.

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Originally posted by aquila Piracy is not just about games though. What about software that fix problems that shouldn't have occurred in the first place? (ie antispam, dvd region cracks, deCSS etc) What about TV shows or movies that can't be purchased legally because of petty licensing and/or region rules? What about TV shows that aren't even available for sale commercially? What about a music album that was poorly marketed in certain countries? What about governmental restrictions (ie x-rated pr0n)? What about movies that are cancelled in cinemas and take 6-9 more months to be released on home media for no fucking reason. What about games that are clearly marked up more in some countries than others? What about deliberately overpriced software? Truth be told I will gladly pay for something that is genuinely worth the money it is asking for. But if I am prevented from doing so by greedy or petty distribution, distance or excessive capitalism, I will gladly consider alternative means of obtaining said product(s). That is my ethics of piracy, and I'll stick to them

What about the rest?!?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN especially if we're focusing on the loss of revenue, not the physical characteristic of the medium in question.

But there are plenty of other ways of making people lose revenue. If I want to kill somebody's revenue from a game, I can give it a terrible review on a prominent gaming site, or make a better game in the same genre and distribute it for a lower price, for example.

Taking action that causes somebody to lose revenue is not in itself illegal.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles But there are plenty of other ways of making people lose revenue. If I want to kill somebody's revenue from a game, I can give it a terrible review on a prominent gaming site, or make a better game in the same genre and distribute it for a lower price, for example. Taking action that causes somebody to lose revenue is not in itself illegal.

Again, I still don�t give a fuck about bullshit semantics that you're dribbling. Piracy is theft, is ruining gaming.

Equating giving a game a bad review with downloading it and not paying for it is, quite simply, retarded.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Again, I still don�t give a fuck about bullshit semantics that you're dribbling. Piracy is theft, is ruining gaming. Equating giving a game a bad review with downloading it and not paying for it is, quite simply, retarded.

Well it appears you do care about semantics. Just so long as your right.

Piracy is not stealing in the traditional sense... just as buying a counterfeit ferrari or whatever isn't stealing.

BTW... what is you guys opinion on how certain types of games will sell a lot better now since they can't be pirated? MMOs a little obvious... but what about stuff like war3tft. Sure it can be pirated... but if you do pirate stuff you miss out on a LOT. Especially if you don't only play dota or standard.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think we just have different ideas of what "steal" means. When I think of "stealing," I think of a situation where somebody makes off with something I own, after which I no longer have it; it's a situation where somebody deprives me of something.

Does income qualify as something?

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Originally posted by RJT Does income qualify as something?

There is no money transferred in a download, so I assume you mean the "potential" income allegedly lost as a result of downloading?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The "potential" income allegedly lost as a result of downloading, you mean? There is no actual money transferred...

Well it really seems like you're trying rather hard to devalue intellectual properties in any possible fashion you can muster, and if that's your position there's hardly a line I can take that would qualify as a relevant count argument.

In the world you describe it sounds as if the very notion of paying for any intellectual property is pointless because they have no intelligible value to begin with.

I love seeing how pirates justify their actions. One day if ever you lose your jobs, i hope you don't complain about it. Piracy makes people lose jobs. You can argue all the bullshit semantics that you want, this is undeniable fact.

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Originally posted by elFreak I love seeing how pirates justify their actions. One day if ever you lose your jobs, i hope you don't complain about it. Piracy makes people lose jobs. You can argue all the bullshit semantics that you want, this is undeniable fact.

Why do you think this is about "self-justification?" I always pay for music and programs unless their maker specifically offers them for free. I enjoy supporting people who make cool stuff.

Nice try, but you fail.

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Originally posted by RJT Well it really seems like you're trying rather hard to devalue intellectual properties in any possible fashion you can muster, and if that's your position there's hardly a line I can take that would qualify as a relevant count argument.

No, I am making a specific argument that copying something is not the same thing as stealing it. Copying it without permission may still be wrong or an assholish thing to do -- I think it is both in many cases -- but it is not theft.

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In the world you describe it sounds as if the very notion of paying for any intellectual property is pointless because they have no intelligible value to begin with.

Not at all.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Why do you think this is about "self-justification?" I always pay for music and programs unless their maker specifically offers them for free. I enjoy supporting people who make cool stuff. Nice try, but you fail.

1. who says i was responding to you.

2.your arguments would lead me to think otherwise

3.shiver me timbers.

is this copy you make for your personal use only (ie backup disk?)

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Originally posted by elFreak is this copy you make for your personal use only (ie backup disk?)

Personally, that's the only kind of copying I do.

I have a strong distaste for file-sharing as a substitute for purchasing music / programs, but for me it doesn't have anything to do with the idea that it involves "stealing," because I don't think it does.

It's more that I think people who bask in the benefits of other people's hard work and yet feel no desire to give anything back are just douchebags.

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Originally posted by elFreak I love seeing how pirates justify their actions. One day if ever you lose your jobs, i hope you don't complain about it. Piracy makes people lose jobs. You can argue all the bullshit semantics that you want, this is undeniable fact.

Wow jaded central.

What if I buy something and then download it(e.g. scratched cd). Under the defenition of downloading is stealing... thats stealing. Is that stealing?

What about second hand cds. If I buy it... the price goes up a little bit... so others are less likely to buy it. If I don't buy it... the price is the same but then I don't have it. Say for example if I don't care about the covert art... but another person really does. If I buy it... then its too expensive for them and they don't buy it. In either case it doesn't effect the artist... but if I do buy it... isn't that me getting something at the expense of others? Thats closer to stealing than not buying it.

If this was a perfect world then if I scratch my cd... then I would only pay a dollar or so for another one. Thats not how it works however... piracy is just the opposite really.

Although certainly... titan quest should have done better. It's the only game to come close to diablo.

The fact that Iron Lore made a not commercially viable game probably has nothing to do with any of the posters here losing their jobs. Maybe if their game wasn't so buggy... or maybe if they had a mp service that made cheating impossible like the one in diablo 2... or a better matchmaking service it would have been better.

what do you do for a living?

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Originally posted by elFreak what do you do for a living?

I'm a student... not relevent.

Going Omgz piraters are evil doesn't change anything. I buy as much as I can... but I don't just not download because its stealing or anything.

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