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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I know people who can. There's just too many talentless bedroom ******s who think that anyone can be a musician, when that simply isn't true. It's a talent, and the best musicians are natural talents. People have been trying for decades to teach perfect pitch, but you're either born with it or you aren't.

Yeah, but its more important what ideas you actually have. The best musicians knows how to express themselves and are able to transform ideas to sound. The best EDM artist are the ones with good ideas and a creative mind.

Like it is now, bedroom producers just copies other peoples ideas, and by copying i mean the WHOLE IDEA.. not just parts of it.

Imo there have been some awesome tech and progressive trance released recently, from producers like MIKE, Ernesto vs. Bastian, Markus Schulz, Marcel Woods. You just have to look a little further to find amazing tracks these days.

Imo there have been some awesome tech and progressive trance released recently, from producers like MIKE, Ernesto vs. Bastian, Markus Schulz, Marcel Woods. Yous just have to look a little further to find amazing tracks these days.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I know people who can. There's just too many talentless bedroom ******s who think that anyone can be a musician, when that simply isn't true. It's a talent, and the best musicians are natural talents. People have been trying for decades to teach perfect pitch, but you're either born with it or you aren't.

Perfect pitch got nothing to do with being a musician... i know people who has it and people who dont... the only thing it means is that if i played a single note to them they would say the exact note pitch, thats all...

and ofcourse innovation isnt coming from thin air, it comes from what you experianced at the past, the perfect example i can give is that a painter who hasnt seen a naked women in his life wont be able to paint it corrrectly, every painter draws images from his mind, and his mind draws it from his memmory of sight... same goes to musician... its just that i dont think taking old school trance beat and combine it with a new track would be innovative, its recycling... taking, say, funk piano line and combine it will be interesting. but making a melody from a synth that makes sounds similar to a washing machine will be innovative, or making a melody out of a set of percussions (a real set not a sample...)...

innovation also depand on the listener, lets not forget that also...

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Originally posted by Vortex_SA Perfect pitch got nothing to do with being a musician... i know people who has it and people who dont... the only thing it means is that if i played a single note to them they would say the exact note pitch, thats all...

It means someone can play something back just from hearing it. It's a big help when it comes to composing, because you can hear any track and know how it was written.

And I've heard plenty of people say perfect pitch is one of the hallmarks of a naturally talented musician. My old music teacher told me that.

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...its just that i dont think taking old school trance beat and combine it with a new track would be innovative, its recycling...

I seriously don't think you've understood what I'm suggesting.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It means someone can play something back just from hearing it. It's a big help when it comes to composing, because you can hear any track and know how it was written. And I've heard plenty of people say perfect pitch is one of the hallmarks of a naturally talented musician. My old music teacher told me that. I seriously don't think you've understood what I'm suggesting.

I can play anything just from hearing it, and i don't have perfect pitch and i can also tell you how the track is written, its because i have the musical knowledge and ability to do that, and thats something that comes in time, perfect pitch isn't...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

that will explain i hope...

and i also don't think i understood what you suggested if you say i didnt...

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It means someone can play something back just from hearing it. It's a big help when it comes to composing, because you can hear any track and know how it was written. And I've heard plenty of people say perfect pitch is one of the hallmarks of a naturally talented musician. My old music teacher told me that. I seriously don't think you've understood what I'm suggesting.

With relative pitch u can do the same, you just cant hear what a single note is without a reference point.

There arent many musicians with Perfect Pitch, i know Laurent Veronnez has that.

Its not proven that it cant be learned.

David Lucas Burge wasnt born with perfect pitch, but he found a way for himself to learn it. Atleast he claims so. http://www.perfectpitch.com
Im not saying it works, but ive started on it, and i believe that it can be learned.

quote:

Originally posted by Vortex_SA I can play anything just from hearing it, and i don't have perfect pitch and i can also tell you how the track is written, its because i have the musical knowledge and ability to do that, and thats something that comes in time, perfect pitch isn't... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch that will explain i hope... and i also don't think i understood what you suggested if you say i didnt...

Yep, if I play a single note for you, then you cant hear which note it is.

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Originally posted by Subtle With relative pitch u can do the same, you just cant hear what a single note is without a reference point. There arent many musicians with Perfect Pitch, i know Laurent Veronnez has that. Its not proven that it cant be learned. David Lucas Burge wasnt born with perfect pitch, but he found a way for himself to learn it. Atleast he claims so. http://www.perfectpitch.com Im not saying it works, but ive started on it, and i believe that it can be learned.

i also belive it can be learned, but do you really want to go through all this shit just to say "hey thats a diminished F# chord you played there!"?

i think that that time should be spent on improving your playing skills or something more useful... people overrate perfect pitch, i happen to know personally some perfect pitchers but it didn't make them any better musicians then the others, the just played more accurately (they knew what needed to be heard more easily), which is also something you develope after a while as a player...

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Originally posted by Subtle Yep, if I play a single note for you, then you cant hear which note it is.

that is correct, i wont be able to tell you the pitch, but i will be able to find it on my keyboard/guitar in a matter of seconds... thats called relative pitch... you will play a note and i will listen and play a note which seems close to the one you played and by noticing the relativity between the two notes ill be able to play your note...

and thats something you acquire through being a musician/player.

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Originally posted by Vortex_SA i also belive it can be learned, but do you really want to go through all this shit just to say "hey thats a diminished F# chord you played there!"? i think that that time should be spent on improving your playing skills or something more useful... people overrate perfect pitch, i happen to know personally some perfect pitchers but it didn't make them any better musicians then the others, the just played more accurately (they knew what needed to be heard more easily), which is also something you develope after a while as a player...

Thats perfectly true.

The good thing though, with Perfect Pitch, is that I think it makes you enjoy music more. A perfect pitcher cant reply to that though, cause he has always had it. I think relative pitch is equally important though, and its not something u get by having perfect pitch.

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Originally posted by Subtle Thats perfectly true. The good thing though, with Perfect Pitch, is that I think it makes you enjoy music more. A perfect pitcher cant reply to that though, cause he has always had it. I think relative pitch is equally important though, and its not something u get by having perfect pitch.

i personally think they are just like you and i... the fact that i can tell that the 2nd gear in my car is not quite as lubed as it should wont make me enjoy the ride any more then usual...

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Originally posted by Vortex_SA I can play anything just from hearing it, and i don't have perfect pitch and i can also tell you how the track is written, its because i have the musical knowledge and ability to do that, and thats something that comes in time, perfect pitch isn't...

I'm speaking from the experience of one friend I have who has perfect pitch and no formal musical training at all, yet he can play back anything I've ever seen him listen to, including stuff by composers.

I don't think you can discount the benefit of being able to do that without any formal musical education as unrelated to being a musician.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'm speaking from the experience of one friend I have who has perfect pitch and no formal musical training at all, yet he can play back anything I've ever seen him listen to, including stuff by composers. I don't think you can discount the benefit of being able to do that without any formal musical education as unrelated to being a musician.

it certainly has it benefits, but being a musician is being a musician, and being a playback guy is being a playback guy... its a big difference, nonetheless i do know the benefits from that, and i think anyone who has it should be grateful for that, but from being with perfect pitch to being a musician theres a long long path, thats my point...

perfect pitch does not offer an advantage for producers/composers. for peformers it does. music isnt about identifying a note and whether or not notes are sharp or flat according to A 440, its about the relationship between two notes. relative pitch is extremely useful though.

In my opinion, the number of kids producing Trance nowadays has increased to a point where basic music skill isn't required at all to make a track that's considered decent.

People just produce whatever they feel like hearing but at the end, you can clearly make the difference between a song composed by someone with musical intellect and someone who doesn't (doesn't make a the musical intellect's track better - eg. Armin - but the producing quality is)

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Originally posted by CSB ugh....vibrasphere is good....but it never has liek a climax or anything in the songs....or at least from what i have listened to....it sounds amazing, but ust never finishes off. It would be like having the best sex of your life, but right as your about to finsih she just stosp and runs away.

yeah that's pretty much tantric sex.

think about what a better orgasm it would be if every time you felt it were about to come you denied it and kept building.


too many people blowing their load too early in dance music IMO

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'm speaking from the experience of one friend I have who has perfect pitch and no formal musical training at all, yet he can play back anything I've ever seen him listen to, including stuff by composers. I don't think you can discount the benefit of being able to do that without any formal musical education as unrelated to being a musician.

perfect pitch is great when performing/improvising. I'm sure it would make composing easy too. But having a lot of time in the studio and practicing relative pitch can make the difference negligible in the end.

I think it's the imagination that is the most important part... the creative intuition. Someone with perfect pitch will always keep it just as a parlor trick unless he has a productive and wild imagination. That doesn't even take into account technical mastery, which isn't as important obviously, but still does matter.

It's like this - imagine that someone has perfect eyesight and someone is nearsighted.

The nearsighted person might not be able to read a sign without getting close. The perfect eyesight person can easily see the sign, but unless he knows what the words actually mean it will be useless to him.

quote:

Originally posted by lindt Some interesting trance albums released in the last year or so. I would not say there is too much innovative going on though, they mostly just stick out by not being absolutely terrible. Aril Brikha - Ex Machina (some trance elements) Asura - Life Squared Beetseekers - Out Of The Blue Moon Cape Town - Aviateur Human Blue - Base Basket Buffet Miika Kuisma - Sententia M.I.K.E. - Moving On In Life Orkidea - Metaverse Planisphere - Solarism Progression - Different Day Different Light Solar Fields - EarthShine Vibrasphere - Exploring The Tributaries

some very good albums there I think the previous Human Blue one was better however, back in 2006, this one has only one memorable track for me. Add to these, the J00F/DFigital Blonde album on the euphoria mix 3rd cd.

Psy Trance Euphoria - John 00 Fleming

02. Out of the Loop - Strangest Night and Still

Thats cool stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Vortex_SA it certainly has it benefits, but being a musician is being a musician, and being a playback guy is being a playback guy... its a big difference, nonetheless i do know the benefits from that, and i think anyone who has it should be grateful for that, but from being with perfect pitch to being a musician theres a long long path, thats my point...

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Originally posted by nefardec perfect pitch is great when performing/improvising. I'm sure it would make composing easy too. But having a lot of time in the studio and practicing relative pitch can make the difference negligible in the end. I think it's the imagination that is the most important part... the creative intuition. Someone with perfect pitch will always keep it just as a parlor trick unless he has a productive and wild imagination. That doesn't even take into account technical mastery, which isn't as important obviously, but still does matter. It's like this - imagine that someone has perfect eyesight and someone is nearsighted. The nearsighted person might not be able to read a sign without getting close. The perfect eyesight person can easily see the sign, but unless he knows what the words actually mean it will be useless to him.

I think it should be pointed out at this juncture that perfect pitch was not the entirety of my reasoning behind music being a natural talent...

There are only two academic fields that have genuine child prodigies: children who can perform at the same level as a thoroughly educated adult. One is mathematics, the other is music. Some people would argue that the two are closely related.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think it should be pointed out at this juncture that perfect pitch was not the entirety of my reasoning behind music being a natural talent... There are only two academic fields that have genuine child prodigies: children who can perform at the same level as a thoroughly educated adult. One is mathematics, the other is music. Some people would argue that the two are closely related.

Im sorry but i just dont belive in something being "born with" i think anybody who wishes can learn everything...

and music espacially today involves lots of math, beside math like in bach's compositions etc. you have now all the producing math and synth math...

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Originally posted by Ian some very good albums there I think the previous Human Blue one was better however, back in 2006, this one has only one memorable track for me. Add to these, the J00F/DFigital Blonde album on the euphoria mix 3rd cd.

Agree with both points. I totally forgot about the Heaven & Hell album which is great!

I tend to like a lot of stuff John 00 Fleming plays on his radio show, that's really the only trance I keep up with at this point.

i think one of the problems is that mega djs dont come up with new stuff, everytime i see a shows tracklisting i see that ive heard all the tracks before it... its not fun anymore cos you dont hear any new stuff... but i think that there is alot of good stuff going out nowdays its a matter of finding them and keep an open mind... i miss kamaya painters/matt darrey/oliver lieb... that was the shit... the days of old tiesto compilations...

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Originally posted by Vortex_SA Im sorry but i just dont belive in something being "born with" i think anybody who wishes can learn everything...

Unfortunately this isn't unicorn fairy land but the real world, and it simply doesn't work like that.

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