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-- Public Message from Airwave
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The truth of the matter is that to a producer/DJ, releasing an album is simply one more step up the 'trance scene ladder'. Once you have an album you get videos, a tour, and now have something that the normies can buy out at HMV and MusicWorld.

Although I can imagine it being frustrating after slaving for countless days in the studio, the real money lies in the recognition of Airwave's name, and the subsequent DJ/Live bookings. Since MP3s give us an opportunity to hear how good Airwave is, I feel this helps his name and helps him get bookings.

Any promoter who has tried to book these artists knows how much they get. The only people this affects are those at Bonzai. As a CD-DJ who gets most of his tracks through mp3 because I can't get it anywhere else, I don't feel for them. If I could go to the Bonzai webpage, pick any track off the site and buy 192kbps mastered for MP3 versions of the tracks for a reasonable price (say 2$ per track) then I would LOVE to do it. No more hunting for full length versions, the right remix, etc. They make money and I stop getting harranged for labels not getting with the times.

Airwave is awesome, and L-Vee has a right to be pissed. But not at the people. How can someone be reasonably pissed because people WANT his music? He should be pissed that Bonzai isn't making it available properly. I wouldn't be able to BUY a copy of this cd for less than 27$. I'd have to import it and wait like 2 and a half weeks. I refuse to buy vinyl because it's a backwards medium. So what can I do?

Thoughts?
Ryan

I agree with what tu_face wrote.

Also, if tracks on his album are not finished yet and have been leaked, L-Vee has a right to be very angry. Those who stole them, and those who distribute and download them should be ashamed. Those are his artistic work, and he should be the one solely responsible for deciding when they should be released.

I myself have no problem sharing and downloading music that has been released. If I can hear it on the radio, I don't see anything wrong with hearing it my computer via an mp3. It's all the same. If it's good music, I'll go buy the vinyl or CD.

Re: Controversial opinions ... don't read in case you are easily upset

quote:

Originally posted by Vesa On the contrary, some famous trance labels have released several compilations with erroneous tracklistings, even tracks from their own producers (like ITWT XTRA track 7). Of course, their fans can't search/buy/download more tracks from the producer if the name is erroneous.

What track is that really???? It's the one labeled Moontribe - Encore, right? Cause I bought the damn vinyl, and the track sounded nothing like it! And it wasn't nearly as good.

quote:

Originally posted by Spad Hrm maybe he should ask himself if he'd be as well-known if it wasn't for the mp3 scene. I bet his album sells more copies than it would have done otherwise.

EXACTLY. mp3 = fame
fame = sales
mp3 = sales

There can be no question that the continual conversion of his tracks to mp3 format increases the number of albums he will sell. I can understand how he might feel demotivated by seeing them available already, but what he doesn't understand is the extent to which the availablility of mp3s of his tracks contributes to his success as an artist.

First off, I do like Airwave, but this really bugs me. It's like biting the hand that feeds. Here's my rant:

1)As its been mentioned umpteen times, Airwave would not be anywhere near as popular w/out the MP3 scene. His fanbase would still be confined to western Europe clubgoers. To those who said "this is his livlihood"... He'd have a lot less $$ in his pocket without MP3's, that's for sure.

2) How does an unreleased album hit the net? especially something that sound like it isn't even finished. This means a) someone stole it or b) he's referring to radio rips.

3) If he's referring to radio rips... people have been recording things off the radio since the 70's... doen't seem to have hurt the industry so far, has it? Plus, what self-respecting file sharer settles for a RADIO RIP?!

4) What about those of us who don't own a turntable or who live in places like the States? It's not like I can just go pick up the new Airwave album at my local music store. People should not complain about file sharing if they are not making their music readily accessible to anyone who wants it.

Bottom line... it sounds like he realized, like many artists, that if every person who downloaded his music bought his music...he'd be rich. That's flawed reasoning though, not everyone's going to like your music, not everyone's going to feel it's worth the price of a CD, and if there wasn't MP3's, not many would have even heard the music in the first place. I'm surprised they're not going after record stores with listening stations... you never know, someone may listen to a disc and change their mind about buying it, hence, money lost.

About Airwave, PLEASE READ!

i wrote a email to jurgen leyers when i saw what happened with airwave, here is the email

Jurgen Leyer's Response to my email, mine is below:

Hi Hadi,

Thanks a lot for the kind words! You're right, not too good news for Airwave. We've had loads of reactions so far... He will finish his project, no problems!

Have a good one,

Jurgen.


From: hadi
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:49:29 EDT
To: jurgen leyers
Subject: hey jurgen




hi jurgen
long time...yea i just wanted to say congratulations on the new single you have made with l vee, i was really pleased with both a and b side. I heard some bad news today when i was reading the www.trance.nu webpage, i heard all of the new tracks from l vee's airwave album are available to download adn he might not finish this album, i was wondering if you can ttell him for me that i reall yhope he can finish this album, because i loev his project airwave, and i really want to hear some new stuff from him. anyways, i hope some idiots didnt spoil what most people were really anticipating.
well, i just wanted to say hi again, and ill speak to later
bye
hadi


so there, no problems

whats up with airwave? i read that other thread and it made 0 sense

quote:

Originally posted by mindshooter If i download a album i do it cause i will buy it if its good...and im not the only one doing that...when will they wake up and see that me and all the ppl i know IRL would never have listened to trance if it wasnt for Mp3......

That was the best point ever made about trance. I say I owe EVERYTHING to mp3's if it wasn't for them I probably wouldn't be as addicted as I am.

quote:

Originally posted by djcresto Friends, colleagues and fans, today I was shocked to find out that all new tracks of my album are already downloadable on several servers. My album "Believe" is scheduled for release after summer..... only i don't know if I should proceed finishing it... This is really demotivating and it is jeopardising the future of all artists, record companies, publishing, advertising and many more related businesses. Airwave

As for the rest of that.....I say the tracks are probably all raido rips...so not that big of a deal. i mean it lets people listen to what they are going to buy (if they like it)
2nd you should finish it...by not doing so you're giving up ONE OF THE BEST JOBS IN THE WORLD just because you feel uninspired if thats the prob take a small break from the album. and lastly...the point of jeopardising the future artists i say thats crap, i mean without sharing music or being able to 'test' the product how do you know if you're going to like it? mark said from blink 182 when napster was in trouble...."our music sounds like shit, im glad people are listing to it for free." even though he made that point, people still buy their cds (i have 4 out of the 6 i think it is)

now here is the kicker....your music i enjoy. on the other hand all songs i have produced by 'airwave' are .mp3 without thoes how would i enjoy thoes songs whenever i wanted to?
so i finish war and peace to you djcresto by saying finish the album...be inspired by all the TA's who totally enjoy your work, and be happy that someone wants to DL your song because they enjoy it.

one more thing to add is look at it this way, you produce something people want...they dl it, they like it. job done. big name dj's spin it at some phucking awesome club/rave/party whatever. SOMEONE FALLS IN LOVE WITH IT. That to me (If i was in your position) would mean a lot more to me than worring about my music being dl'ed. the important thing is finding out how it got out there in the first place.

:TF:

this just goes to show that Airwave is in it for the money and not for the love of the music....and they also need to understand that if his precious album is as good as 'Airwave' expects it to be, then there is no need to worry about people not buying it. And yes, if it wasn't for mp3's I wouldn't be enjoying trance, so Airwave: go cry me a river.........
now I'm going to go find that new Airwave album due and download it

So fuck, Waste of thread, He was obviously going to finish.

Actually it probably had more to do with Bonzai or the higher up distributers thinking of backing out on the album...why would they want to spend big bucks to release an album that's already available for free?

Just a thought for those who have already decided on little information that L.Vee is all about the bling bling.

Ryan

Re: About Airwave, PLEASE READ!

quote:

Originally posted by liquidxxd hi jurgen long time...yea i just wanted to say congratulations on the new single you have made with l vee, i was really pleased with both a and b side. I heard some bad news today when i was reading the www.trance.nu webpage, i heard all of the new tracks from l vee's airwave album are available to download adn he might not finish this album, i was wondering if you can ttell him for me that i reall yhope he can finish this album, because i loev his project airwave, and i really want to hear some new stuff from him. anyways, i hope some idiots didnt spoil what most people were really anticipating. well, i just wanted to say hi again, and ill speak to later bye hadi so there, no problems

spell check is a great thing.. I mean seriously, have you tried to read your e-mail? There are tons of errors.. partially i don't even understand what you are saying... come on people !!!

thanks for the info anyhow

i dont care, he got the basic message of the email which is all that is needed, and most people can figure out the errors that were made and fix them in their heads
ie:
adn = and
reall yhope = really hope

not too hard

ok just to make a point.. this i show labels work:

they sign an artist because they are good and they think that they can make the label money. they then give the artist X amount of money (based on estimated cost of production and projected royalties) and say 'go make an album' or 'go make a single'. they then proceed to make the album/single with the money they have been given. then when the record gets released, the producer wont make any money until the label gets all its money back.

thus, if everyone has heard the tracks on the album (and they are readily available for free) not as many people are going to buy the album. this means he might not re-coup the money the label gave him in the first place, and this could result in him losing his record deal.

does this help to explain why the d00d is angry..?

Copying of music was going on long before the internet came onto the scene. I'd like to see Airwave look us all in the eye and say that when he was getting into music he never bought blank tapes and took copies of albums and vinyls from his friends (and vice versa). I can understand why he's pissed off at his unreleased material getting out but bet any amount of money that he's downloaded an mp3 at some point in his life.

The Record Industry understandably got paranoid when Napster started up, but I think we can all agree that mp3 sharing is now pretty much commonplace and part of the internet. However I've seen no evidence to suggest that it's making any negative impact on record sales at all.

At the end of the day everybody's different but I can honestly say that since I started downloading mp3's I'm spending no less money on music (infact I'm probably spending more, since it's got me all the more interested in the music I listen to).

edit: I'd encourage any producer who's against mp3's to read the reply to this thread: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...?threadid=47483 and they'll soon realise that mp3's are helping get their music to people who wouldn't otherwise hear it. There are people all round the world buying dance music who would otherwise have not heard of it. People are now ordering records from the UK and other European countries on the back of mp3's they've downloaded. This is creating more demand for dance music in places where it wasn't available before. Contrary to destroying the dance music industry, mp3's are helping it expand to places all over the world without any effort at all from the record companies. In short, they're all getting a fuck load of free publicity in places where it would've cost them a small fortune in marketting and advertising to get the same level of attention.

Jeez ... the way some of you guys bang on, it's like we're doing all these artists a favour by leeching their albums. Come on guys get real, it's not as though there was no way a producer could get their record listened to by the public before MP3.

Case in point - the truth is that trance is nowhere near as big or popular now as it was in '98 - '99 ... in other words, back before most people had ever even heard of MP3. There were *shock, horror* established methods of record promotion which used to work quite well. I'll put money on the fact that the trance artists who were big in '99 made more money than they do today.

Well I'm not going to bullshit and say that 'if I download a record I like I'll go and buy it' - of course I bloody don't, I rip it to CD or minidisc and play that sucker! And so do all the rest of you, so why don't you all stop pretending otherwise

Like it or not, MP3 is costing the record companies money. And like it or not, the profits of the record companies are what pay the wages of the artists. I used to buy at least a couple of CDs a week on average, if I look at my record collection now, I have about 3 or 4 hundred music CDs that I actually bought up to about 3 years ago when I wised up to MP3. These days, I think I've actually bought one commercial recording in the last two years. There's no doubt that the collective record companies are down by a few thousand dollars of potential income right here, and I know plenty of you who are the same.

If you consider the fact that many of us make also rips for mates who haven't got CD burners / internet access, and multiply it by a few million internet connections, I can sort of start to see Mr Airwave's point ... sometimes I even feel guilty about it

This is probably going to get flamed to hell and back, but I can't believe that every single one of you is busy wheeling out that line about how MP3 is really a good thing for these artists and they're just too greedy and stupid to realise it Of course it bloody isn't good for the artists. Do any of you really think that you've got a better grasp of the economics of the music biz than L-V has? He's released that statement because he knows that MP3 is costing him a massive chunk of his potential income and he's understandably pissed off. It's silly to go slamming on the dude for trying to protect his livelihood. The only reason we're all here is because we're all thieves, I don't have a problem with admitting that.

I bet if Airwave actually does come on this board and read all this sanctimonious horse shit some of you have posted about how he's a selfish wanker and how he should really be grateful to us all, he's gonna be raging

quote:

Originally posted by Kia Kaha Case in point - the truth is that trance is nowhere near as big or popular now as it was in '98 - '99 ... in other words, back before most people had ever even heard of MP3.

Absolutly disagree 100%. Maybe the interest in Holland has subsided a bit (which could be down to over-exposure and commercialisation) but I don't see how anybody can argue that as a worldwide genre, trance has exploded in the last few years. This site is a good example. In 99 trance was being enjoyed in several countries Europe, and had a small following elsewhere in the world. Today you can go pretty much anywhere in the world and find trance music and clubs.

quote:

Originally posted by Spad Today you can go pretty much anywhere in the world and find trance music and clubs.

You make it sound like a bad thing. Who cares if there are some posers or some people who dont trully enjoy the music as we do. But i say thats alrightl, as long as im happy with the music i say dont worry about it. i mean as long as we have people who are addicted as we are then we will always have good music.

:TF:

quote:

Originally posted by Kia Kaha Case in point - the truth is that trance is nowhere near as big or popular now as it was in '98 - '99 ... in other words, back before most people had ever even heard of MP3.

Are you out of your mind? No, seriouslly. I understand that everyone refers to the highlife of trance as being back in the explosion of '99, but with the advent of Napster, mp3 sharing, etc, as wrong as it may/may not be, there is no fucking way that trance ISN'T as popular now.......if not more. If you look at it from a logical standpoint for a few minutes, I think everyone will agree there is no way that trance was more popular back then. The quality of tracks may have been the best, and it may have caused a large explosion of listeners to it, but to say it was more popular back then is reeeeeeally far-fetched. Think about what you're saying.

In regards to L-vee/Airwave, there isn't much that I can add to this debate that hasn't already been said. I am in aggreance with Kia Kaha in the fact that the amount of cd's I have bought since cd/mp3 ripping has definitely declined over the past few years. There are the cd's that I have to have simply b/c they are too good to pass up on, but I haven't spent as much money buying cd's than I did when I was say...15-18 years old (I am 23 now).

Let me give you guys something to think about. I can understand where he is coming from. I really can. I just wonder where this motivation from money loss is coming from? With the number of productions/remixes this guy has done under his various guises, there is no way in hell you can look me in the face and tell me he doesn't already have loads of cash. I'm not talking superstar DJ-status money, but MORE than enough to live "comfortably." So why the big fuss now? This is MY insight to that question. I think that these guys/girls are freaking out about the potential income they are losing. Potential is the key word, however. Potential = money they would make had everyone who dowloaded their stuff bought his cd. To think like that, however, is rediculous. B/c out of say, 1 million people who d-load his stuff, you are going to have, say, 10-30% that think it's crap and the most their going to do is delete the .mp3 from their hard drive. Then you have the other percentage of people who will like it, listen to it a few times, possibly keep it on their computer, but nbever listen to it, much less buy the album. Then you have the people who are going to give his stuff one listen, be like "HOLY SHIT" and immediately go buy the album/place the order for it. There are two other categories the other people are going to fall into. 1) Those who like it just as much as those who went and bought the album, but the only difference is they will wait till the album is released and burn it to cd for themselves from a file-sharing group. 2) Those who have never heard of "this Airwave guy" and they are going to d-load it for the first time and either be turned on or off by it, but where they go from there is not for me to know/decide.

The choices here are simple people. As tu_face said earlier, with each copy of the cds/vinyl/singles we go out and buy, the record company/producers get more money...which is fine by me. I think that it's great that there are people that are like L-Vee, M.I.K.E., etc that put their heart and souls into what they do. But there's a catch. If you want these guys to continue to have the funding neccesary to make these albums, you have to support the music industry SOME kind of way. Even if that means buying a cd or two a week, the long-term benefits are what count. Now, I know that I have already said I don't buy as many as I used to, but I still buy them. I don't want the music I love so much to go away entirely.

I give props to those who use the mp3's as a measuring tool on whether or not you will buy the cd'.s I think that encourages the artists to put out more quality work, b/c they now know we aren't going to settle for just any old shit they put out, b/c we will have heard it b4-hand...if that makes any sense.

But anyway, to get back on track with what I was saying...if you like a particular artist enough to where you want him/her to stay around, go and buy their album. It does everyone good in the end. If you don't like their work to begin with, then your money was never meant to be theirs to begin with.

I WOULD like to say that I think by the "...or I won't finish the album" remark was a little bit uneccesary, if not somewhat childish. If your heart and soul are REALLY into this, then finish the damn album and the true Airwave fans will buy it even though they could get it for free (if not now, later this summer). It just it seems the remarks he made, or the way he made them, seem like to me he's saying "I'm going to make money...just not AS MUCH money," and that's NOT to be commended. I hope some of this makes sense...

i disagree that trance isnt as big now...

its just less in the public eye... in 99 etc it started to get known by everyone, it actually got recognised as a form of music by the general population. theres not a chance in hell of me beleiving that trance isnt as big now... just the focus of the public has changed to the new craze (cheap metal and garage... thats what it is in the UK anyway )

the same trancers are still here, and if anything, more people are getting into clubbing than ever before!

quote:

Originally posted by Spad I don't see how anybody can argue that as a worldwide genre, trance has exploded in the last few years. This site is a good example. In 99 trance was being enjoyed in several countries Europe, and had a small following elsewhere in the world. Today you can go pretty much anywhere in the world and find trance music and clubs.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceFusion You make it sound like a bad thing. Who cares if there are some posers or some people who dont trully enjoy the music as we do. But i say thats alrightl, as long as im happy with the music i say dont worry about it. i mean as long as we have people who are addicted as we are then we will always have good music.

No offence but how on Earth have I made that sound like a bad thing? I was saying that Trance is bigger than it was in '99. I got no idea how you twisted that to mean that I was complaining about posers in clubs!

quote:

Originally posted by Spad No offence but how on Earth have I made that sound like a bad thing? I was saying that Trance is bigger than it was in '99. I got no idea how you twisted that to mean that I was complaining about posers in clubs!

I was thinking the same damn thing...AHHH, the glory of the Internet!

why does airwave cares anyways, the only good track on that album is "innerspace"
you can't have an artist like that complaining about that, it is ridiculous, on the other hand , there is PVD , TIESTO, PICOTTO who don't give a shit if their songs are available for download before their albums are realeased,in fact most people i know who download the whole artist album is because they just want ot make sure the whole album is good before buying and 90% of the time they still buy the album, so what is to complain about?

quote:

Originally posted by REDHOT why does airwave cares anyways, the only good track on that album is "innerspace" you can't have an artist like that complaining about that, it is ridiculous

1. I want to believe (Dolphin mix)
2. Musings of a lifetime
3. Save me
4. Another dimension
5. Devotion
6. Above the sky 2002
7. Alone in the dark
8. Innerspace
9. Ladyblue
10.Theft of the spirit
11.Sunspot (Don't cry my love mix)
12.Trust no One

Ehrm, how many of these tracks have you actually heard? I would wager the large majority here would say this is an excellent album. Furthermore, if you are saying L-Vee's productions are crap, compared to say PvD or Tiesto, lol.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ NEILSON i can he's a twat. this is a SCAM. he just doing this to get publicity so people will go and get his album and/or he might make poeple feel guilty to getting his album. either way, i think its a scam. stupid...S*dhs9d0*(D*)�U_(UIIR

YO MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!

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