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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Yea, but whenever I complained that this or that didn't work, that first suggestion was always to try a different distro. "I don't have that problem with Fedora! You should use that!"

I'm surprised, usually they just tell you to open up the kernel source code and debug it yourself, and then go through 38 different configuration screens and run 8 scripts to recompile it and then run 3 more scripts to install it. "Use the source, Luke!" (I really want to punch them in the face for that nerd pun).

Hell, this crap is part of what I do for a living and it even makes me sick to my stomach. This shit ain't fun, I don't want to do it unless I'm getting paid for it.

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Originally posted by DigiNut I don't want to do it unless I'm getting paid for it.

but doesn't that defeat the purpose of the open source paradigm

(I'm not mocking you, i'm mocking crapux)

lol @ the Linux comments! Linux is for OS sensationalists.

And the only old RAM that is expensive is PC800/RDRAM/RAMBUS - aka most 2001 PCs.

Hahah, speaking of RDRAM, anybody else remember the Intel i820/MTH fiasco? That was awesome.

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Originally posted by malek linux is useless... no one ever mentions it in big corps.

lol ... how would you know? please go back to your kitchen.

by the way this very site is running on linux.

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Originally posted by DigiNut It seems like the Linux weenies actually have finally settled on the "best" distro, that being Ubuntu, but sadly it's still a piece of mouse shit.

and when did this happened ? was there any congress where this was voted ? and why won't you do something to make it better?

surprising statement, coming from the well spoken, never wrong and always right DigiNut. I'm kind of disappointed now If you don't 'get it' what can we expect from the illiterate masses.

People, Linux and open source computing is about freedom and making a stand for our rights, it is what brings balance in world controlled by corporations and money. It is an statement about building a better future.

"We want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man."

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Originally posted by neuromancer People, Linux and open source computing is about freedom and making a stand for our rights, it is what brings balance in world controlled by corporations and money. It is an statement about building a better future.

Oh man, gotta wipe this tear from my eye...

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Originally posted by neuromancer lol ... how would you know? please go back to your kitchen. by the way this very site is running on linux.

bahahahah and this is a big corp website ( no offence to swamper )?

I work at CGI, biggest IT company in Canada, 26000 employees worldwide, if you are ever looking for a job, let me know they are hiring in TO (I'll make 4k off your back for reference)

quote:

Originally posted by malek bahahahah and this is a big corp website ( no offence to swamper )?

That was not the point, it was only an example of how Linux do have part in our everyday life.

Needles to say there is plenty (if not more) of corporate sites and entire infrastructures running on Linux. Amazon, Yahoo, Novell, Google and a zillion more. I'm also sure there is some Linux running at CGI.

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Originally posted by malek I work at CGI, biggest IT company in Canada, 26000 employees worldwide,

Doing what on CGI, hopefully not IT. I made a search in the Careers section and there is a lot of offerings for programmers/sysadmins with open source software experience, I wonder what they need them for.

quote:

Originally posted by malek if you are ever looking for a job, let me know they are hiring in TO (I'll make 4k off your back for reference)

Thanks, but no Mr corporate troll. I have my own business, while not as big as CGI it produces enough to pay for my drugs without having to sell my soul.

The point is that your statement :

quote:

Originally posted by malek linux is useless... no one ever mentions it in big corps.

is patently false and pure trolling.


hehe today i earned my linux zealot title, sorry for the hijack

Malek is right. Linux is OK for servers but it's utterly useless as a desktop OS.

Every single year we hear that Linux is really truly seriously going to take off this year, and Microsoft better shape up because they're going to get killed. Halloween Files, ooooh! Yeah, I've read the Cathedral and the Bazaar too, but you guys have had what, 20 years to come up with a desktop OS that Mom can use? Face it, you just can't do it. All of the theorizing and rhetoric in the world can't change that.

Good software requires more than a lot of nerd programmers with too much spare time to develop. You need designers, proofreaders, translators, testers, architects, hell, you need lawyers to make sure you can't get sued for putting the wrong word in a dialog box.

Every open source weenie I've ever spoken to only seems to understand one facet of the software process: writing code. It's as if we still live in a world where it's OK to make users fiddle with command-line tools and edit config files by hand. Where the UI only needs to be in English and the core only needs to be tested with the 10 most popular motherboards and video cards. QA? Pfft, if it compiles then commit! You guys may have raised the bar for programmers with distributed source control, but when it comes to actual design and process, you're still living in the dark ages.

That's why Linux will never work in the corporate world. Sure, it's free, technically, but the TCO is about five times as much as Windows when you factor in the support costs and lowered productivity. It's impossible to manage centrally, there's no vendor support, and it's giant fucking pain in the ass for Doris in Accounting who can't even remember how to use the Ctrl-Alt... what was it? Page Down?

In your earlier post you actually used the term "illiterate masses". Guess what: those are your customers. You can't treat them as being beneath you if you want them to give a shit about your efforts. They pay your bills. Although I guess as long as it's Open Source, then your bills somehow pay themselves.

FOSS is nothing more than software communism. It works sometimes in little micro-economies like the kibbutzim in Israel and hippie love-fests, but it just can't survive on a worldwide scale. It's hyper-idealistic and ignores just a few too many basic economic realities. Basically, it only works if every single person involved in any way is totally committed to the ideal, and outside the very narrow community of open-source contributors, nobody is committed to that ideal. Grandma is definitely not committed. FOSS is good for one thing and that's making software marketed toward programmers. Because - surprise surprise, most people are inherently selfish and are only really interested in making stuff that benefits them.

You go ahead and stick it to the man. Personally, I've got more important things to do than waste my time digging through bash scripts. I've got a job to do. Bills to pay.


P.S. Sorry for the O/T but I think we answered that question sufficiently anyway...

lol at the nerdfest this has turned into! <3

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Originally posted by DigiNut [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]Malek is right. Linux is OK for servers but it's utterly useless as a desktop OS.

Linux is not only OK, Linux excels in the server market, as a matter of fact the most recent survey shows 50.69% of websites are running on Apache another OS product. As per the desktop experience I suggest you try Open Suse, Ubuntu or Red Hat and you will be surprised at the quality of the product. My Linux desktop performs better and does more stuff that any windows or mac station.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Good software requires more than a lot of nerd programmers with too much spare time to develop. You need designers, proofreaders, translators, testers, architects, hell, you need lawyers to make sure you can't get sued for putting the wrong word in a dialog box.

So you are saying that GNU, IBM, Red Hat, Novell, Canonical don't have 'designers, proofreaders, translators, testers, architects' and lawyers.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Every open source weenie I've ever spoken to only seems to understand one facet of the software process: writing code.

And what part exactly do you understand about the software process ?

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Originally posted by DigiNut It's as if we still live in a world where it's OK to make users fiddle with command-line tools and edit config files by hand.

Dude you are still living in the 80s (and repeating the things you heard back them). Users do not need to fiddle with scripts anymore.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Where the UI only needs to be in English and the core only needs to be tested with the 10 most popular motherboards and video cards. QA? Pfft, if it compiles then commit! You guys may have raised the bar for programmers with distributed source control, but when it comes to actual design and process, you're still living in the dark ages.

Once again please get your facts straight, Linux runs in a broader spectrum of motherboard and devices than Windows or any other OS for that matter. As per internationalization, you can have Linux in swahili if you like.

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Originally posted by DigiNut That's why Linux will never work in the corporate world. Sure, it's free, technically, but the TCO is about five times as much as Windows when you factor in the support costs and lowered productivity. It's impossible to manage centrally, there's no vendor support, and it's giant fucking pain in the ass for Doris in Accounting who can't even remember how to use the Ctrl-Alt... what was it? Page Down?

More FUD, all of the companies I mentioned before provide Linux support. This paragraph looks like extracted from a Microsoft pamphlet. What do you know about Linux TCO ? Do you run an IT company or you just read it somewhere and now are just repeating it here?

Now, the statement I'm having problem with is 'Linux will never work in the corporate world' when Linux ALREADY have a huge share in the corporate market. You and Malek are ignoring that most of the networking infrastructure today runs on Linux and are nitpicking in the workstation issue. You guys are ignoring that there are many successful open source companies out there.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut FOSS is nothing more than software communism.

Please don't bring communism into the discussion, you know nothing about it either.

Being open source doesn't means you can not charge for the product. The free in open source means free as in free of speech, not free as in free beer. It means that you can do whatever you want with the software as long as you provide your modifications back to the community. Seems fair to me.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut You go ahead and stick it to the man. Personally, I've got more important things to do than waste my time digging through bash scripts. I've got a job to do. Bills to pay.

There are plenty of successful Open Source software out there, Firefox is one that everybody around here is probably familiar with.

No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver. I guess you are ok with the man sticking it to you.

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Originally posted by neuromancer As per the desktop experience I suggest you try Open Suse, Ubuntu or Red Hat and you will be surprised at the quality of the product. My Linux desktop performs better and does more stuff that any windows or mac station.

LOL, dude, I've fucking tried them! I know exactly what quality they are! Why is this always the response of the freetards?

quote:

So you are saying that GNU, IBM, Red Hat, Novell, Canonical don't have 'designers, proofreaders, translators, testers, architects' and lawyers.

Sure they do. They also have little if anything to do with the product development, they just package stuff. So what's your point?

quote:

And what part exactly do you understand about the software process ?

Oh, nothing I suppose, other than IT'S MY JOB.

The rest of the points are either patently false or rhetorical questions that make patently false implications. Users DO still need to fiddle with scripts and config files, no sane person could possibly believe that Linux has better hardware support, the kernel itself may have some level of i18n but hardly any of the actual software for it does, Linux has virtually no share in the corporate market aside from web servers, and "free as in speech" is rarely if ever differentiated from "free as in beer" by the people in that community (Linux is not just open source, it's GPL, which is free as in communist).

Firefox is a great example of a successful open-source project and probably the only example. It's successful primarily because it's (a) very tightly controlled, and (b) drowning in cash. Much like a commercial software product. It's also MPL, not GPL, which is frowned upon by the FSF.

Believe me, my facts are straight. I know all about this business. It sounds like most of your information is coming from slashdot.

quote:

Originally posted by neuromancer That was not the point, it was only an example of how Linux do have part in our everyday life. Needles to say there is plenty (if not more) of corporate sites and entire infrastructures running on Linux. Amazon, Yahoo, Novell, Google and a zillion more. I'm also sure there is some Linux running at CGI. Doing what on CGI, hopefully not IT. I made a search in the Careers section and there is a lot of offerings for programmers/sysadmins with open source software experience, I wonder what they need them for. Thanks, but no Mr corporate troll. I have my own business, while not as big as CGI it produces enough to pay for my drugs without having to sell my soul. The point is that your statement : is patently false and pure trolling. hehe today i earned my linux zealot title, sorry for the hijack

yes bro, if you knew what CGI line of buisness is, you wouldn't mock my post. If the client doesn't want to deal with it, CGI will take over and do it. CGI does every technology, so obviously, if companies don't want to deal with crapix servers, we'll take over, and at some point, convert them to the best solution.

But internaly, when we deliver services to hundred of thousands of end users, linux is nowhere to be found.

Sell my soul?? hahahaha friggin hippie. Grow up.

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