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-- The ban-wagon rolls on... plastic bags, phones, electronics yet to be invented!
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quote:

Originally posted by jonnystel NO theyre treating STUPID adults who cant make proper desicions in life that in turn affect others negatively.. by forcing them to do what best for the majority

This makes no sense at all. The whole point is that there are far too many reactionary measures that do not take the full scope of research to determine whether they are correct or not, typically exemplified in the paper vs plastic debate.

As for cell phones and traffic...I don't really know what to say. Laws of the road here are pretty restrictive and ridiculous as it is. One can argue that yes there are plenty of idiot drivers, but the immediate extension to that is that there are plenty of idiot drivers that are being allowed onto the roads in the first place. All things considered, driver training, and driver license requirements here in Ontario (and most of Canada IMO) are laughably easy to meet.

Typically enough of this government, they do not ever address the root causes of issues, but just slap on bans and regulations and convoluted rules in a bandaid solution fashion. And typically enough, most people, like yourself and Intangible reply with: "Well it seems logical enough, thus it must be correct".

so lets just ban everything that could kill you or someone else.

At least with guns people have a choice...they can get the licence or not and then make a decision if they want to buy a gun....I have my licence and I own a gun.

Don't get me started on the drinking age....personally, I don't think there should be a drinking age.

quote:

Originally posted by Intangible the environment is very important and our economy and standard of living depend on it

I would have thought that it is our fairly affluent status that dictates our standard of living, and not the environment. If we were so environmentally concerned, why would we pay an exorbitant amount of money to dump hundreds of tons of garbage every day to dumps outside of this province? Yes, there seem to be initiatives about 'going green' around every corner, but as MarkT pointed out, I can't see too many that have a scope broad enough to really address the root causes. On the surface they all come accross as good-intentioned, but fall pretty short in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by Intangible Is banning guns without a license a bad thing? How about making certain drugs illegal? Enforcing a drinking age? All these bans 'micromanage' individuals but benefit our society.

You can't be serious can you?
Guns: there is a HUGE assumption here that somehow curbing legally owned firearms helps. While in principle I agree that ownership should be strictly regulated, I don't really see it helping the ultimate problem: most guns in this country are illegally and uncontrollably brought it anyways.
Drugs: There are plenty of drugs/chemicals/additives/you name it that are FAR more detrimental and toxic, but there are huge industries behind these, and most are brought to market with nary enough legitimate and consistent long-term research.
Drinking age: Again, gross assumption that it would be youngsters getting drunk and causing havoc. As opposed to all the legally-of-age pepole getting drunk today and still causing havoc. So, it accomplished what exactly?

Move to Alberta Problem solved.

I hate to open a can of worms, but I think I need to.

The real problem with these rules, bans and laws is not that they are thinking for us, or trying to control us, but the reason behind the control.

Parents these days are showing they are not fit, nor willing to raise their kids properly, so they look to the state for help. It goes back to how much responsibility you give the government for raising your kids, and controlling people.

Kids in Toronto are getting into gang violence, blame the schools. It is the school's fault for not including curriculum to grow young adults. Hell they spend 6 hours a day at school anyways, the school should take responsibility.

Too many obese adults, because they developed poor eating habits as kids. Solution? No don't cook healthy meals for your kids, but ban pop in school instead.

Kids watching too many commercials which target them, so ban the commercials. Don't actually pay attention to what your kids watch, because that would take too much effort. Just allow the gov to ban the bad stuff, that way you don't have to control your kids.

Now for adults, we pay so much in tax, we believe we are entitled to a lot of services, which also include laws and regulation. People have been trading taxes for responsibility for far too long, and now it is coming back to bite us in the ass. If people just stfu and actually pay attention to raising their kids, then a lot of these problems would be avoided.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko I hate to open a can of worms, but I think I need to. The real problem with these rules, bans and laws is not that they are thinking for us, or trying to control us, but the reason behind the control. Parents these days are showing they are not fit, nor willing to raise their kids properly, so they look to the state for help. It goes back to how much responsibility you give the government for raising your kids, and controlling people. Kids in Toronto are getting into gang violence, blame the schools. It is the school's fault for not including curriculum to grow young adults. Hell they spend 6 hours a day at school anyways, the school should take responsibility. Too many obese adults, because they developed poor eating habits as kids. Solution? No don't cook healthy meals for your kids, but ban pop in school instead. Kids watching too many commercials which target them, so ban the commercials. Don't actually pay attention to what your kids watch, because that would take too much effort. Just allow the gov to ban the bad stuff, that way you don't have to control your kids. Now for adults, we pay so much in tax, we believe we are entitled to a lot of services, which also include laws and regulation. People have been trading taxes for responsibility for far too long, and now it is coming back to bite us in the ass. If people just stfu and actually pay attention to raising their kids, then a lot of these problems would be avoided.

Plus F***ing ONE!!!

quote:

Originally posted by zokissima Plus F***ing ONE!!!

agreed

Let adults be adults and let adults parent their children.

Sorry to say it but there will always be bad parents....and unfortunately the children will have to suffer for it....but just because there are some bad parents out there doesn't mean the government has to step in and parent everyone.

This all really happened when stupids started hurting themselves, and the society, instead of making them take responsibility for their own actions, introduced the warning labels.

quote:

Originally posted by zokissima This makes no sense at all. The whole point is that there are far too many reactionary measures that do not take the full scope of research to determine whether they are correct or not, typically exemplified in the paper vs plastic debate. As for cell phones and traffic...I don't really know what to say. Laws of the road here are pretty restrictive and ridiculous as it is. One can argue that yes there are plenty of idiot drivers, but the immediate extension to that is that there are plenty of idiot drivers that are being allowed onto the roads in the first place. All things considered, driver training, and driver license requirements here in Ontario (and most of Canada IMO) are laughably easy to meet. Typically enough of this government, they do not ever address the root causes of issues, but just slap on bans and regulations and convoluted rules in a bandaid solution fashion. And typically enough, most people, like yourself and Intangible reply with: "Well it seems logical enough, thus it must be correct".

I agree!!... they dont... IE. stupid FUCKING people driving 100 on the 401 in the fast lane... i remember in germany , poland hell ... all of europe .. actually. everywhere BUT north america.. if you want to pass someone even on a 1 lane road. they PULL to the shoulder.. but here. no . they sit there. even if you flash them. honk. nothing. just to be an asshole.. driver training needs to be redone... i can use a cell phone while playing with my ipod and driving . cuz i know my limits and am able to multitask. and when i feel something isnt safe for me and those arond me thats when i stop.. BUT this is canada.. and the majority of people are fucking stupid and dont know their limits lol so that why these bans are in place..... in germany its illegal and enforced to not be on your phone while driving. cuz i guess its in the best interest of MOST people.... if your not happy iht the government though.. and demand an anarchy. move to mogadishu somalia and i would like to see how long you would last !


OH and the parents turning to society to raise their kids is wrong... i grew up in a family that raised me like its supposed to happen and im fine. i know whats right and wrong.. i have respect to authority. even if i dont agree with it . but if some people cant raise kids they should think before they fuck . and if not.. stop complaining... l..for ex.. i think there SHOULD be swearing on the radio. like in parts of europe.. why not.. a kid too young to be exposed to that will not know how to switch to a station anyways.. and if the parents know the kid is close. CHANGE THE STATION. dont rely on society to raise your damn kids.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko I hate to open a can of worms, but I think I need to. The real problem with these rules, bans and laws is not that they are thinking for us, or trying to control us, but the reason behind the control. Parents these days are showing they are not fit, nor willing to raise their kids properly, so they look to the state for help. It goes back to how much responsibility you give the government for raising your kids, and controlling people. Kids in Toronto are getting into gang violence, blame the schools. It is the school's fault for not including curriculum to grow young adults. Hell they spend 6 hours a day at school anyways, the school should take responsibility. Too many obese adults, because they developed poor eating habits as kids. Solution? No don't cook healthy meals for your kids, but ban pop in school instead. Kids watching too many commercials which target them, so ban the commercials. Don't actually pay attention to what your kids watch, because that would take too much effort. Just allow the gov to ban the bad stuff, that way you don't have to control your kids. Now for adults, we pay so much in tax, we believe we are entitled to a lot of services, which also include laws and regulation. People have been trading taxes for responsibility for far too long, and now it is coming back to bite us in the ass. If people just stfu and actually pay attention to raising their kids, then a lot of these problems would be avoided.

/thread

Re: Re: The ban-wagon rolls on... plastic bags, phones, electronics yet to be invente

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT highly debateable.

I was JUST about to post that, dammit.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced agreed Let adults be adults and let adults parent their children. Sorry to say it but there will always be bad parents....and unfortunately the children will have to suffer for it....but just because there are some bad parents out there doesn't mean the government has to step in and parent everyone.

See that is part of the problem. It brings up a very interesting question: if you can see the problem coming, how do you prevent, divert, or fix it? The government has been given the responsibility of making laws to help run a country. How do we encourage the government to encourage its citizens to 'do the right thing' while respecting their right to choice?

In regards to the specific problems I posted, i came up with a solution which would help, but not force. It seems to me that most of these problems stem from a lack of education, and a lack of resources (effort being one of those resources).

Now I have no idea what the government actually gives to new mothers, but I think it should include the following:
- a package outlining various educational options, including alternate language schools, coop, trade schools, colleges, universities, and any other positive routes.
- funding options for each type of school and each tax bracket.
- nutrition and meal guides for male, females and all age groups.
- maybe even a cook book with recipes form different parts of the world, including traditional western fare.
- exercise guides, and league info.

Basically a little guide to good living, without actually forcing anything upon individuals in the form of laws.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko Now I have no idea what the government actually gives to new mothers, but I think it should include the following: - a package outlining various educational options, including alternate language schools, coop, trade schools, colleges, universities, and any other positive routes. - funding options for each type of school and each tax bracket. - nutrition and meal guides for male, females and all age groups. - maybe even a cook book with recipes form different parts of the world, including traditional western fare. - exercise guides, and league info. Basically a little guide to good living, without actually forcing anything upon individuals in the form of laws.

I agree 100%.....that is what a government is suppose to do.....give people the tools to make an informed decision....but yet still allow them to make their own decisions. This goes for most things...not just raising children.

I'm just waiting for the day the government limits the top speed of every car to the speed limit. Then I'm moving.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko I hate to open a can of worms, but I think I need to. The real problem with these rules, bans and laws is not that they are thinking for us, or trying to control us, but the reason behind the control. Parents these days are showing they are not fit, nor willing to raise their kids properly, so they look to the state for help. It goes back to how much responsibility you give the government for raising your kids, and controlling people. Kids in Toronto are getting into gang violence, blame the schools. It is the school's fault for not including curriculum to grow young adults. Hell they spend 6 hours a day at school anyways, the school should take responsibility. Too many obese adults, because they developed poor eating habits as kids. Solution? No don't cook healthy meals for your kids, but ban pop in school instead. Kids watching too many commercials which target them, so ban the commercials. Don't actually pay attention to what your kids watch, because that would take too much effort. Just allow the gov to ban the bad stuff, that way you don't have to control your kids. Now for adults, we pay so much in tax, we believe we are entitled to a lot of services, which also include laws and regulation. People have been trading taxes for responsibility for far too long, and now it is coming back to bite us in the ass. If people just stfu and actually pay attention to raising their kids, then a lot of these problems would be avoided.

an emphatic + 1 from me.

I don't think your post is even debateable...it's fact.

the question is...what to do about it. it's a political philosophy question. do you advocate for a state that gets involved...or do take a 'laissez-faire' approach.

the 2nd option is better...but also idealistic when people abuse the freedoms they have or when their actions/inactions impact others.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko once again, get your facts right. Baby bottles are being banned, but you can still buy water bottles (nalgenes) with BPA. Sellers are voluntarily taking them off the market, but they are not going to be banned.

The BPA issue is with baby bottles and hard plastic bottles. The baby bottles have been banned and they are considering a ban on the hard ones as well. My point was that BPA has to dow tih those types and not soft plastic water bottles. That arguement is about consumption, not BPA.

quote:

Also, your remark on schools flushing their water systems is not correct. They do not necessarily do that because of lead, but other contaminants.

Lead was always the issue in my public, secondary and university. They even admitted it readily. Im sure there are other contaminants too which i wont find in my bottled water

quote:

For most municipal water systems, if the water pressure flowing through the pipes was not high enough, contaminants would actually flow in, rather than be pushed out. Sometimes you just cannot avoid this. Every engineering project has limitations, which we need to work around. Tap water is quite safe, and I dare you to prove otherwise with facts, and studies rather than your own word. The only reason I continue to answer your crazy pill inspired posts is to make sure I am a dissenting voice to your rants.

You make good counterpoints, and except for the last sentance, this is the type of rebuttle i can respect. I know that water out of a tap is not perfect. This is why i seek other sources. AND IT IS MY RIGHT TO DO SO... or should be! As i said, i dont like tap water but i dont advocate a ban. So i'll leave tap water alone if you leave bottled water alone... deal?

quote:

Originally posted by Orko I hate to open a can of worms, but I think I need to. The real problem with these rules, bans and laws is not that they are thinking for us, or trying to control us, but the reason behind the control. Parents these days are showing they are not fit, nor willing to raise their kids properly, so they look to the state for help. It goes back to how much responsibility you give the government for raising your kids, and controlling people. Kids in Toronto are getting into gang violence, blame the schools. It is the school's fault for not including curriculum to grow young adults. Hell they spend 6 hours a day at school anyways, the school should take responsibility. Too many obese adults, because they developed poor eating habits as kids. Solution? No don't cook healthy meals for your kids, but ban pop in school instead. Kids watching too many commercials which target them, so ban the commercials. Don't actually pay attention to what your kids watch, because that would take too much effort. Just allow the gov to ban the bad stuff, that way you don't have to control your kids. Now for adults, we pay so much in tax, we believe we are entitled to a lot of services, which also include laws and regulation. People have been trading taxes for responsibility for far too long, and now it is coming back to bite us in the ass. If people just stfu and actually pay attention to raising their kids, then a lot of these problems would be avoided.

100% agreed. Its actually alarming how people are so willing to throw out their liberty and freedom so that they can rid themselves of personal responsibilties. Literally, every day i turn on the tv now there is a new ban being announced. Its out of control. The latest one today is "SILENT HOCKEY STANDS". Thats right, they want to ban all forms of cheering and booing at hockey games. CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS?? This isnt a government ban, but its reflective of how cavalier canada has become with this topic. If something bothers you in the slightest way, ban it! It gets more and more stupid every single day.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced so lets just ban everything that could kill you or someone else. Don't get me started on the drinking age....personally, I don't think there should be a drinking age.

I agree for sure.
NO last call, no drinking age. Fertain things should have bans, certain things should be restricted, and certain things should just be left up to the ADULTS who can make adult decisions.

Earlier from "Johnnystel" attacking my initial post

quote:

Originally posted by jonnystel No matter what they do. theres always people that bitch and bitch about bla bla im paying my taxes for this . rah rah rah .. it is what it is get used to it .

Later on in the thread..........

quote:

Originally posted by jonnystel I agree!!... they dont... IE. stupid FUCKING people driving 100 on the 401 in the fast lane... i remember in germany , poland hell ... all of europe .. actually. everywhere BUT north america.. if you want to pass someone even on a 1 lane road. they PULL to the shoulder.. but here. no . they sit there. even if you flash them. honk. nothing. just to be an asshole.. driver training needs to be redone... i can use a cell phone while playing with my ipod and driving . cuz i know my limits and am able to multitask. and when i feel something isnt safe for me and those arond me thats when i stop.. BUT this is canada.. and the majority of people are fucking stupid and dont know their limits lol so that why these bans are in place..... in germany its illegal and enforced to not be on your phone while driving. cuz i guess its in the best interest of MOST people.... if your not happy iht the government though.. and demand an anarchy. move to mogadishu somalia and i would like to see how long you would last ! OH and the parents turning to society to raise their kids is wrong... i grew up in a family that raised me like its supposed to happen and im fine. i know whats right and wrong.. i have respect to authority. even if i dont agree with it . but if some people cant raise kids they should think before they fuck . and if not.. stop complaining... l..for ex.. i think there SHOULD be swearing on the radio. like in parts of europe.. why not.. a kid too young to be exposed to that will not know how to switch to a station anyways.. and if the parents know the kid is close. CHANGE THE STATION. dont rely on society to raise your damn kids.

Sounds like there are certain aspects of your life that you feel are over-regulated? I'm as much of an idiot for defending my freedoms as you are my friend...

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 The latest one today is "SILENT HOCKEY STANDS". Thats right, they want to ban all forms of cheering and booing at hockey games. CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS??

LOL.
No I can't, if that happens I will laugh my ass off. It won't but it's still really funny IF they're even really considering it.

Re: Re: Re: The ban-wagon rolls on... plastic bags, phones, electronics yet to be invente

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper I was JUST about to post that, dammit.

do you ever have anything constructive to say or do you just troll?

quote:

Originally posted by Endlesswave LOL. No I can't, if that happens I will laugh my ass off. It won't but it's still really funny IF they're even really considering it.

It wont? i never thought half the bans that have gone through would happen.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree I'm just waiting for the day the government limits the top speed of every car to the speed limit. Then I'm moving.

Its been talked about for cars and as for trucks i beleive they passed a law for governers at 105 km/h a few months ago?

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I agree 100%.....that is what a government is suppose to do.....give people the tools to make an informed decision....but yet still allow them to make their own decisions. This goes for most things...not just raising children.

This is exactly what i advocate. Im not against recycling, cutting down use of certain products, i actually hate smoking, etc...

But these laws and the idea of these laws disturb me because it affects my every day decisions as an adult. Prohibative laws effect our economy, livlihoods and lifestyles. I became a libertarian precisely because of the lies and propaganda that was spread during the "rave crackdowns". It ended up in the practical abolition of the type of events i used to enjoy. It really opened my eyes to the BS that was being served to us on a silver (highly taxed) platter. And things in this department are getting worse, not better.

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