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- Political Discussion / Debate
-- The 'Authorities' are your friend
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Originally posted by Dj Dizzy i can't stand cops with that type of complex. alot of people may disagree with me here but i'm going to say it anyway. cops are fucking useless, the only safety you have is self-defense, if you wait on a cop to intervene and save your life... well then your life is most likely going to end. the one and only time i've ever called the cops they never came. i woke up to the sound of someone's crowbar trying to get into our place through the back porch. i called the cops, waited as long as i could then finally went outside and confronted the person with a baseball bat. they never did even come. they're fucking useless sorry if my opinion upsets some people but that's just how i feel

Well, that's mostly true. If you are in a life threatening siutation chances are no one but yourself is going to be able to help you. If someone is armed (with a gun), your safest bet is to surrender your wallet instead of having your testosterone possible getting you killed. Otherwise, if you're trained and depending on how polished your technique is, you can pretty much easily disarm any other weapon. It's not like there aren't good cops out there, but it seems like they're far and few between. I kind of feel bad for them as they have to deal with a fair bit of BS from their peers. All a cop has to do in order to not cross the line is honor their profession and responsibility towards society. Don't get me wrong, I respect cops who do their job and have a strong sense of the law. I can't stand people with that complex period, not just cops. But they especially piss me off when they act like trigger happy brutal assholes.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I don't expect [insert arbitrary percentage here] people to draw any conclusions no matter how bad things get... Warrantless searches and seizures... check Spying on civilians... check Ability to strip citizenship... check Ability to declare anyone an enemy combatant by the President or Secretary of defense... check Habeus Corpus nullified... check Indefinitie detainment... check Torture... including your children... check Wars based on lies... check Haliburton Concentration Camps... check Check points... check

Mass Arrests....... check

but I seriously doubt that you'd ever catch it in the news



On another note, I bet that a lot of those cops are actually good, honest people in real life. They've probably just been either conditioned or brainwashed into thinking that they're serving the needs of the public (by unwittingy helping to enslave it.)

F*ck this government.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton F*ck this government.

No, f*ck the rogue element which has taken it over from within.

It sounds to me like the Round Table Groups owe America's sheeple a great debt of thanks but good luck in them ever getting it.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Mass Arrests....... check but I seriously doubt that you'd ever catch it in the news

The list just keeps getting longer doesn't it.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X Mass Arrests....... check but I seriously doubt that you'd ever catch it in the news

Is this US of A or some country in the middle east?they call this a free country?how so? you cant even have a peaceful demonstration ffs.

quote:

Originally posted by atbell Generally the best debates come from when people debate the side they don't beleive in. shaolin_Z I'd like to see all of the stuff you can muster on why we need more authoritarian measures, including incedents where police are brutally assulted or save innocents through use of either tasers or non-violent means. You sould pay speciall attention to Kent State and other civil disturbances around the world where police of the day used bullets instead of tasers to fram your argument. Q5echo - I'd like to see you post about all the nastyness that cops do, including using thier authority to gain sexual favours from civilians. And remember, the cleaner the victims the more points you score. Double that amount if you can get shots of cops beating down people in pin stripe suits.

A good crash course in "objectivity", for sure.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby A good crash course in "objectivity", for sure.

After 3 years of parliamentary style debating and public speaking, I can say with a lot of confidence that the only thing it ends up in your own head disappearing up your ass... the proportion of people who become more objective as a results is incredibly low. It just makes you an argumentative asshole who knows how to rip other people's perspective to shreds in an interactive discourse, even if they're right and you know you're wrong, and frankly don't even believe in the position you're supporting... which is what it ends up being a lot of times, you don't get to pick weather you're opposition or proposition, the point is winning the debate not what is valid, correct, or optimal. Objectivity is the biggest farce the irrational human mind has thought of. There is no such thing as pure objectivity, your 'subconscious' always shapes your conscious higher cognitive functions, thoughts, and actions. Public speaking makes you a good propagandist for a live audience, parliamentary style debating makes you good at arguing and being condescending, that's really about it. That's one reason why you won't find me sucking Obama's dick like many others. I've used those same tools myself, and frankly, he's not even that good a public speaker in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z

Dude!! frigging cops man..... this type of shit is only going to get worse...

Authoritative power is there to be abused, it is in its very nature - and ours - as the very notion of power is an exertion of ones heirarchical standing to exploit the sovereignty of others by means of the circumvention of basic, enforceable policies which apply to the citizenry that is being policed. In short, it is a cop's job to enforce the law, most often by breaking it, himself. It's why police can pursue you at 90mph if you're speeding or beat the shit out of you without getting in trouble - this exemption, this freedom, is power and it would seem an empty form of deterrence through intimidation were it never displayed. My point is, when you grant a degree of power to any agenda, expect that power to be used and abused.

Where authority most often oversteps its power lies in the very definition of "crime" in the first place. When an authority outlaws a certain action or motion and assigns enforceable consequence as an official reaction, a "crime" has been defined - quite literally, crime has been created. The nature of crime being to transmit behavioural patterns throughout culture, most often in an effort to curb violence, positions enforcement authorities to, as with any social agenda, wage an ideological war. The difference being the degree of violent power an authority allows itself. At times when personal liberties are considered shameful, when taboos are numerous and domineering, when many actions that individuals take granted the whims of their social setting are considered "criminal", you are going to see more enforcement, more violence, more abuse of power, and more cops.

Authority is a mostly (unfortunately) necessary and inevitable evil. People are seemingly programmed to be social creatures that create complex Gods and Devils to rule themselves. To extrapolate this idea, one that has already been introduced in this thread, military and war operate under exceedingly similar conditions. When you give any cause the power to achieve its goals, you can expect that power to be exerted until there no longer exists any opposition or until another agenda conflicts with it - its as though authority has its own inertia, and with enough leniency, enough freedom, it can become an unstoppable force for change - for better or for worse.

Its not just the USA. UK is on par with police violence as well. Recall the Brazilian man who was savagely murdered by the London police after the subway attacks in '05?

Recently, the UK police attacked and killed a bystander who was not part of the G20 protests, and then lied about his cause of death ... Friendly police?

http://www.thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/550558

quote:

Two autopsies, two results Abdominal bleeding, not heart attack, killed man at G20 April 18, 2009 Sarah Lyall New York Times News Service LONDON (Apr 18, 2009) The newspaper vendor who died after being struck by a police officer during the Group of 20 summit meeting earlier this month was killed by abdominal bleeding and not by a heart attack, according to an independent autopsy whose conclusions were released yesterday. This flatly contradicts earlier assertions by the police, who maintained newspaper vendor Ian Tomlinson died of a heart attack. It also opens the door for possible manslaughter charges against the officer who attacked Tomlinson, pushing him and striking him from behind with a baton, shortly before he collapsed. The Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is investigating the incident, said that because of the new autopsy, the officer in question had been "interviewed under caution for the offence of manslaughter." That means the unnamed officer has been formally interrogated, but not charged with a crime. Tomlinson died April 1 in London's financial district during protests against the G20 meetings. He was trying to walk home from work and was not part of the protests. The police originally claimed that they had no contact with Tomlinson other than to offer him assistance and put him in an ambulance after he collapsed. But video footage provided by members of the public to the Guardian and other news outlets proved that was untrue. Tomlinson, the footage showed, had been struck from behind and pushed roughly to the ground as he tried to walk away from an officer in riot gear. He then got up unsteadily and began walking again, only to collapse soon afterward. The original autopsy was conducted by Dr. Freddy Patel, a pathologist assigned to the case by the Home Office. Patel found blood in Tomlinson's abdomen, but also said that his liver and heart were diseased and that the cause of death had been hardening of the coronary artery disease. Following the revelation of the new video evidence, the complaints commission then ordered a second autopsy, by Dr. Nat Cary, a pathologist who is part of the Forensic Pathology Services and who usually deals with suspicious deaths, be carried out. "Dr. Cary's opinion is that the cause of death was abdominal hemorrhage," a statement issued by the City of London Coroners Court said. "Dr. Cary accepts that there is evidence of coronary atherosclerosis, but states that in his opinion its nature and extent is unlikely to have contributed to the cause of death." Cary added that he did not know what had caused the abdominal bleeding. The family said it had been misled by the police at every turn. "First we were told that there had been no contact with the police, then were told that he died of a heart attack; now we know that he was violently assaulted by a police officer and died from internal bleeding," said a family spokesperson. "As time goes on, we hope that the full truth about how Ian died will be made known.

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