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-- Digital mixing vs. competent beat matching
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quote:

Originally posted by Az granted, but it does give you a list of tracks that may be suitable, instead of a DJ having to know their records and picking one himself. Hence the practically. but the whole point of it is to be able to arrange tracks that can be harmonically mixed together using the the bullshit "easy mix system" it has congratulations on stating the fucking obvious. I have no misconceptions about the software, it analyses records, and assigns them with the key and a number which to me, although it may not be correct 100% of the time, is still suggesting records for a DJ is it not? what in the fuck does that have to do with anything? I'm perfectly aware of how it works, I'm dismissing it as a shit tool that attempts to make things that are already quite easy, even easier, unnecessarily. thats lovely, To summarise, I'm inclined to think you are a fucking bellend

Ok, look at it like this then, you obviously do know a thing or two about HM (my bad) but choose not to. Sure it�s freedom of choice.

I suppose the only thing that puzzles me is that if you are so good at what you do then why do you care what some rebel without a clue is doing with his laptop? It�s not like he is headlining at Cream Amnesia this summer or in the forseeable future for that matter. I just didn�t understand your reasoning for making the statement in the first place, unless of course you have lost out on a work opportunity to a person like that, which would suggest that you are shit, and I doubt that is the case.

As for the fucking bellend thing... sure whatever...
Nem

dubfire uses mixed in key and he invented underground.

/thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I listed 5 DJs who inspire me the most and who I like best, off nights and bad shows included.

but im willing to bet my left nut, that even if theyre not writing the key on their records, that they're mixing mostly harmonically, through experience and talent. why on earth would professional musicians disregard the rules of music? that makes no sense.

i dont necessarily know which tracks will work together, so i key them first so if im ever going to do an out of key mix, then at least i know it.

and, as always, i will point out that if you want to mix harmonically, key tracks yourself! if you love the music youre playing, i see no reason why you wouldnt enjoy gaining a bit more knowledge about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis As for having available tools, I think that when a tool starts to dictate how I think about what to play next, it becomes more than just "extra info", and I don't enjoy it. When I caught myself more often than not scanning my case for compatible keys rather than simply thinking about what I thought would sound good and feel good next, I stopped keying my tracks.

yeah, i can understand that. if the tool is actually detrimental to your overall performance/enjoyment then yeah, fuck it off.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Ok, look at it like this then, you obviously do know a thing or two about HM (my bad) but choose not to. Sure it�s freedom of choice. I suppose the only thing that puzzles me is that if you are so good at what you do then why do you care what some rebel without a clue is doing with his laptop? It�s not like he is headlining at Cream Amnesia this summer or in the forseeable future for that matter. I just didn�t understand your reasoning for making the statement in the first place, unless of course you have lost out on a work opportunity to a person like that, which would suggest that you are shit, and I doubt that is the case. As for the fucking bellend thing... sure whatever... Nem

dubfire

i used mixed in key for about a day

sure it may work for some people but i can't stand it... i hate the feeling of having a set few traks which i can or cannot mix with properly... I'd rather just go by which direction I feel the set should go in...

that said, key clashes sound god awful but proper EQ can almost completely eliminate them

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Seriously, how does being ignorant of a piece of information = having that information? It really doesn't make any sense.

You missed Clovis' point.

He's saying that these people have real talent because they don't need to label their tracks harmonically - their natural instinct and experience ensures that they can pull great transitions out of thin air that a lesser jock would only manage through painstaking hours of pre-gig preparation and experimentation.

I'm with Rob on this one. Saying you don't want the extra information, to me, is like never looking at a scoreboard during a golf tournament, for fear of knowing more. I've never bothered to actually make notes on everything, but key is absolutely something I pay attention to, both on my own and when listening to others' work. I love hearing a track re-worked ever so slightly to fit an existing key (Cobblestone Jazz did this with 'India in Me' at DEMF and I was almost giddy), and hate hearing an otherwise-great mix spoiled by an off-key transition (Transitions 3, into 'Genesis'). Some people can pull that off without the aid of notes or a program (and for the record, I think something like Mixed in Key is kinda cheating, though I'm sure someone will make the Ableton/warping comparison), but the more it happens, the better.

Also, I think of it more as a benefit than interference. Two tracks that are both in key don't require much else in common to mesh well, while a LOT has to be right to put two off-key tracks back-to-back.

it's true they have talent, but from what i have heard them play, it's nothing extraordinarily tonal anyways, and it's rather dissonant and percussive, so key clashes sound intended you might say it's more contemporary because of this, because its more about the layering of sounds and sound figures than of notes and chords. it certainly has more to do with dadaism and surrealism than bach or handel

they sense well the vibe of the track and of the room they are in, as well as the rhythm, but it's a different kind of musical sense.

When they bring in tracks it's more about bringing in elements and creating 'spectacles' than changing the chord or layering harmonies. i'm not making a judgment statement here, just saying it straight


to be a good dancefloor deejay you don't need to mix harmonically. it's just something that matters personally to me a lot of the time, and is related to the kind of music I choose.


like clovis said, the important thing is to do what feels right for you.



btw - the 'real talent' thing belongs in the 'how subjective is taste thread'

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog You missed Clovis' point. He's saying that these people have real talent because they don't need to label their tracks harmonically - their natural instinct and experience ensures that they can pull great transitions out of thin air that a lesser jock would only manage through painstaking hours of pre-gig preparation and experimentation.

I don't think they necessarily have more talent at all. I just do not think that paying close attention to mixing in key is always beneficial to DJing, specifically if you play a lot of music that Adam described.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I just do not think that paying close attention to mixing in key is always beneficial to DJing, specifically if you play a lot of music that Adam described.

why do you feel that the basic rules of music don't apply?

Re: Digital mixing vs. competent beat matching

quote:

Originally posted by Zoso For example, I've seen people state something along the lines of "if you're using Ableton only, you'd better do something great with it to wow me," etc.

That's exactly what I would say.
Beatmatching is a basic aspect of DJing. Without it, you cannot mix. However, it's not very difficult and there's MUCH, MUCH more difficult aspects to mixing.

I taught my girlfriend to beatmatch in half an hour but it took her months to learn to EQ properly and all the rest...

I find DJs mixing intro to outro, without doing anything interesting, without layering or sampling things...boring. I play on 3 decks otherwise I'm bored.

If I can do that AND have to beatmatch manually at the same time, you better do something crazy in Ableton otherwise I'll be bored. Might as well watch a CD play.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN why do you feel that the basic rules of music don't apply?

Music doesn't always need to be pigeonholed into "rules".

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael Music doesn't always need to be pigeonholed into "rules".

Dave Dresden goes by autistic empathy and bipolar hi-hats.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN why do you feel that the basic rules of music don't apply?

Because in practice they just don't matter much sometimes.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Promo Dave Dresden goes by autistic empathy and bipolar hi-hats.

Ted Promo, seriously best poster on TA.

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael Music doesn't always need to be pigeonholed into "rules".

its hardly "pigeonholing" to say that music has rules. that's just silly.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Because in practice they just don't matter much sometimes.

next time you hear someone singing out of key, remind yourself that you said that

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN its hardly "pigeonholing" to say that music has rules. that's just silly. next time you hear someone singing out of key, remind yourself that you said that

No because its not the same situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis No because its not the same situation.

how so? it still (often) sounds like arse. out of key is out of key.

clovis is right -

singing in the traditional sense (melodic, sustained) generally isn't used in a seth troxler like context

if the singer was just making weird noises or making little pop chords then it would be different



listen to anthony collins - lunatic fringe



also, what about buddhist tantras? i think you must have a very narrow definition of music

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec singing in the traditional sense (melodic, sustained) generally isn't used in a seth troxler like context if the singer was just making weird noises or making little pop chords then it would be different listen to anthony collins - lunatic fringe also, what about buddhist tantras? i think you must have a very narrow definition of music

oh, i know nothing about music theory. just that whenever i hear music that's out of key (with either itself or another piece of music) it makes me cringe.

i certainly don't think that exceptions to rules or specific forms of music/styles mean its ok just to ignore key clashes in DJing.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i certainly don't think that exceptions to rules or specific forms of music/styles mean its ok just to ignore key clashes in DJing.

I wouldn't expect you to, if you don't DJ.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I wouldn't expect you to, if you don't DJ.

why would i be hanging around in here if i didnt DJ?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN why would i be hanging around in here if i didnt DJ?

Not sure...but don't you play completely different music than me?


And its not perfect in key mixing vs. clashing on every mix, what I'm basically saying it, mixing via feeling and the odd key clash is not the end of the world, and in most cases, does not make you any worse a DJ.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN oh, i know nothing about music theory. just that whenever i hear music that's out of key (with either itself or another piece of music) it makes me cringe. i certainly don't think that exceptions to rules or specific forms of music/styles mean its ok just to ignore key clashes in DJing.

i bet if you heard one of these deejays clovis mentioned play and they did a 'clashing mix' you wouldn't even notice

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