And if you're till hung up on using AutoCad specifically, just use bootcamp to install XP, which still works better than Vista.
Hahahah this guy thinks that all these pieces of shit are better than Autodesk's product, and then goes on to say to just install Windows anyway, fucking amazing.
quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
Only because AutoCad was first released in 1982 to be used on IBM PCs whereas the first Macintosh was released in 1984.
If they had waited 2 years, their code would've been made for the Mac as opposed to PC, and the would've continued their line of products specifically for Macs.
If anything, that post doesn't add points to Microsoft, but to Autodesk instead, who have created an exceptional piece of software.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH SERIOUSLY GET THE FUCK OUTTA TOWN AHHAHAHA
I can see him right now, donning one of his 43 pairs of thick black-rimmed glasses, thinking of an angry, scathing reply, fingers trembling at his barely-usable keyboard...
Posted by plaxx on Sep-20-2008 19:43:
quote:
Originally posted by VERTiG0
I can see him right now, donning one of his 43 pairs of thick black-rimmed glasses, thinking of an angry, scathing reply, fingers trembling at his barely-usable keyboard...
Angry response? I'm just giving you the facts.
Posted by DigiNut on Sep-20-2008 19:50:
quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
Microsoft just proved to everyone they lack 0 creativity, and 0 ability to do anything unique, without biting Apple.
First of all, when you say they "lack zero creativity" then that means they aren't lacking it, in other words they have all of it. You might want to learn how to string together a sentence before you crap words all over internet forums.
Second, what makes your argument completely self-defeating is the last three words: "without biting Apple". They never mentioned Apple. Not once. That's the point. They don't have to.
quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
Some of the recent "I'm a PC" ads were created on a Mac, go figure.
Yeah, and a bunch of both Microsoft's and Apple's servers are running some flavour of Unix. Smart businesses are going to use the most convenient tool for any particular task, not run gestapos forcing everybody to use their own products. I don't see how something like this could possibly be relevant, except to Apple ballwashers.
Perhaps the biggest irony is that the "Mac" software in question was just Adobe CS3, which runs perfectly fine (better, actually) on Windows.
quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
Why doesn't microsoft make the ads themselves using their Vista OS and Expression Studio which "takes your creative possibilities to a new level" ?
Maybe because they're a software shop and not an advertising agency, you fucking nitwit?
quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
If they had waited 2 years, their code would've been made for the Mac as opposed to PC, and the would've continued their line of products specifically for Macs.
First, how could you possibly know this, and second, since when has product age ever been a factor in making cross-platform software? Up until very recently, most Mac users still used Microsoft Word and Internet Explorer. If Microsoft was willing to develop for Mac, surely Autodesk would want to corner this market.
The reason they don't is - speaking now as a software engineer - development for the Mac fucking sucks. I mean it seriously sucks donkey balls. Even the newest, shiniest shit like RealBasic feels like you just stepped out of a time machine and went back to the 1980s. Compared to Visual Studio, it's dog shit. There's absolutely no reason for Autodesk to put up with this in order to increase profits by maybe 1%.
quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
Angry response? I'm just giving you the facts.
You haven't given a single "fact" in any of your responses.
Posted by devnull on Sep-20-2008 20:14:
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
really? why do u say that?
i find the mac commercials funny, the windows one...dont trigger anything for me
PS im no Apple fanboy! i hate mac's
Posted by Special K on Sep-20-2008 20:29:
the windows commercials were pretty dumb and unfunny
Nice catch on my messing up of words, but thats the only thing you really seemed to grasp from all of this.
Microsoft can't come up with their own name for ads without borrowing something from Apple. They don't have to mention Apple, as these ads are 'the answer' to Apples "I'm A Mac" campaign.
What? Microsoft doesnt have to bite Apple? You must be really thick.
Where's your proof that Adobe CS3 runs better on Windows than Macs? Having used Adobe CS3 many times on Vista and getting the error "Windows has shut down unexpectedly" or "Adobe Illustrator has shut down unexpectedly" has put me off it completely. Windows has shit font management, it cant deal with video files unless you have 300 codecs installed, and it corrupts PSDs. Adobe After Effects CS3 runs BETTER on Windows XP than it does on Vista, Microsofts premier OS.
quote:
Maybe because they're a software shop and not an advertising agency, you fucking nitwit?
So explain to me why an ad agency chooses Apple over Microsoft? Maybe it has something to do with speeed, reliability, and the availability of applications that make doing things easier.
Go to autodesk's website and click company you'll see they started making their products in 1982 (also on Wikipedia)
Go to wikpedia and type in macintosh, first macintosh was built in 1984
Why would Autodesk have started creating for the Mac from the begining instead? because "it was the first commercially successful personal computer to feature a mouse and a graphical user interface (GUI) rather than a command line interface."
Don't even bring up Word, or Internet Explorer into this topic. You know they are both terrible programs, especially Word. If there was a version of word I liked, or even used, it would have to be Word 97, only because you could play pinball in it. IE? Sucks. Period. And if you are the software engineer that you say you are you will agree with that.
Software development? Maybe you can explain to me why there are millions of sites that have this shit freeware, evaluation only crap that surely infests your PC with more useless shit which its already full of? and why nothing like that is there for Macs? Software created for Macs works and you can count on it. For every task there is a preferred application.
Maybe you're not familiar with XCode? I suggest you look into it. And while we're here, maybe you can tell me what the deal is with having 6 different versions of the same OS?
Posted by spolitta on Sep-20-2008 20:44:
As a Mac user I blame iPods for bringing so many shallow new mac users in the recent years. Fucking teenage fanboy idiots at every corner. It's fucking disgusting... and then we have the cheap "I'm a Mac" advertising that makes me wanna take a big dump on Job's face.
Posted by Orko on Sep-20-2008 21:18:
I think maybe where M$ went wrong with the Seinfeld ads, was the writing. Seinfeld was originally approached and became famous for the writing in his routine/show, not his acting. He was/is a poor actor. M$ should have paid to have him write the material, and not just bank on his celebrity.
That being said, I did like the Seinfeld/Gates Odd Couple ads. They were quirky, and not all that funny, but it was enough. They were meant to create buzz, and not inform, because they barely mentioned windows or any features.
The new Windows ad, gets straight to the point. Everybody uses their product, so you have a huge user base, a huge development base, a huge support base, and a massive amount of diversity. My uncle recently needed a piece of software but I could not help him because he bought a Mac, and I had no way to testing the program before I gave it to him. My aunt, with a 10 year old computer was just fine because she had Windows.
Plus, slap 'Mac compatible' on a product and you can increase the price by 50%. My buddy just bought a SD card reader at the Apple store. Same card reader (Belken) you can buy it any computer store, but he paid out the ass. "Look, I finally got a Mac compatible card reader!". Good job dumb ass.
Strength in the computer world comes from having a large user base. M$ is playing off that, and hopefully it works.
Posted by StereoPrincess on Sep-20-2008 21:18:
quote:
Originally posted by VERTiG0
Excuse me Margs but making video mashups of my dog barking and a cute clip of a cat meowing all set to the sultry sounds of Enya is serious friggin business to me, also I just love to warp my face with iPhoto its just so much fun let me tell you! You don't know what you're missing with your Micro$oft experience! MAC MAC MAC MAC MAC
lol.
oh man. all i need is $$$$$$$$$$$$. cha-ching!
but i do wish i could be as cool as a Mac user.
P.S. Who out there doesn't have to use both platforms for work or school or for fun? These back and forth arguements are totally useless. Be happy that you are smart enough to use a computer at all and if you can use both platforms, you are a winner!
Posted by Orko on Sep-20-2008 21:24:
quote:
Originally posted by StereoPrincess
P.S. Who out there doesn't have to use both platforms for work or school or for fun? These back and forth arguements are totally useless. Be happy that you are smart enough to use a computer at all and if you can use both platforms, you are a winner!
Majority of people. I used a Mac back in Grade 5, and haven't used one again until 3 months ago (almost 15 years). I still don't *need* both, most people don't. You only need both when you have a Mac, and need to go back to windows for something.
Posted by DigiNut on Sep-20-2008 21:43:
quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
I'm not going to respond to most of that drivel. I think almost everybody else here will read it the same way I did. I will however respond to the last comment "recommending" XCode, since that may be a little less obvious to the peanut gallery.
The problem with development on Macs isn't the IDE (dev application), it's the framework. Objective-C and Cocoa are crap. Just the idea of having to put a separate text box and scroll bar on a form and wire them together yourself is enough to make almost any professional developer insane. They didn't even have garbage collection until a couple of years ago.
Apple went totally off their nut in this respect trying to make a framework that was flexible. Nobody wants that. When you're building stuff, flexibility equals tedium. 99% of all functionality in all software uses the exact same controls, and for things which don't fit into those categories, developers usually elect to write it themselves from scratch.
Cocoa forces you to do all kinds of pointless boilerplate work and tries to force you into a specific development paradigm, which is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from Apple. Jobs' ruthless micromanagement may work fine in Apple's own offices, but if he thinks he can foist it on outside developers, on smart people who have already been spoiled by the ability to throw together a decent UI in 3 minutes using Visual Studio, he's very much mistaken.
.NET on the other hand is brilliant. It's Java without the suck. Everything makes sense. Everything is cohesive. The hierarchy is intuitive, the syntax and semantics are consistent across the library, even the primitives mostly just do what they're supposed to do without you having to write 500 lines of extra crap in order to make it happen. It's brainlessly easy to develop for phones if you want. Yeah, it's got plenty of faults - every framework does - but nothing else on the market right now can hold a candle to it. Nothing.
If you're not in this industry then you have no idea what you're talking about with respect to development on the Mac. It's crap crappy crap and that's all there is to it. It's not even debatable. You won't find one person in the industry who's spent any significant time developing in Visual Studio willing to say that it's better on Macs. And it doesn't matter how wonderful the platform is, if you can't get developers to support it then you'll always be a bit player, like the Atari Jaguar.
You yourself pointed out that there are millions of little freeware apps out there for Windows and almost none for Macs - do you honestly believe that's because all of it's already available on the Mac? That's not even possible with all of the vastly different hobbies and interests out there. Those applications aren't on the Mac because nobody wants to make them, because not only is the target market tiny but the process rates somewhere between getting your gums scraped and shaving your nutsack with the guard off.
Posted by DigiNut on Sep-20-2008 21:44:
quote:
Originally posted by Orko
M$
And there goes your credibility. Go back to /. please.
Posted by Swamper on Sep-20-2008 21:49:
quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
Those applications aren't on the Mac because nobody wants to make them, because not only is the target market tiny but the process rates somewhere between getting your gums scraped and shaving your nutsack with the guard off.
I'll never look at Mac applications in the same way again
Posted by rabbitjoker on Sep-20-2008 22:05:
Posted by rabbitjoker on Sep-20-2008 22:06:
Posted by Orko on Sep-20-2008 22:22:
I really hope those school kids got shinny new computers labs.
Posted by plaxx on Sep-20-2008 22:27:
quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
I'm not familiar with any aspect of software development so most of that is irrelevant to me. I will say this though, OS X is built using the XCode development environment, which is proof enough for me. OS X is far better than Vista, or any other OS put out by Microsoft, now and in the future.
For me, there are applications for Mac which I couldnt work without, and they have to be matched with anything in the PC world.
Coda
Textmate
Transmit
just to name a few. OS X is a solid built operating system. Nothing is overlooked and everything is fixed, and not flimsy like Vista. The people who make software for OS X know this, and thats why the software works. It's not like the visual style for OS X changes to OS 8 if you run an application thats older.
At the end of the day, it what you choose to work with. For me, Macs work better. A lot of people who don't like Macs, just don't like them because they don't want to get out of their Windows comfort zone. This applies especially to developers, and programmers, because they don't want to go through that learning curve again.
Posted by LKD on Sep-20-2008 23:44:
ok seriously i dont know why any of us are even bothering responding to plaxx.
anyways...the irony of the whole mac campaign is how they compare a Mac (actual physical pile of expensive crap) to an operating system
one should think about this Mac has been dependent on developing both OS AND hardware to use the OS on to generate their income. While Microsoft has been strictly software until say a decade or so ago when they started creating non computer devices (xbox, zune etc. oh and yes i know that there have been I/O devices such as mice, keyboards and joysticks that theyve had for a long time but those are manufactured by other companies and the name slapped on it)
and whenever u speak to any mac user regardless of how smart they come off as (well the 150 or so users i know), they have no valid reason as to why they bought and are using the mac but the standard line is "macs are better than pcs"...."why?"...."just cos it is"..."oh yea?"
Dear Mac users,
WE DONT CARE IF U THINK UR COOL COS U SPENT TWICE THE AMOUNT ON UR MAC THAN WE DID ON OUR PCS AND THAT SHOULD U WANT TO UPGRADE ANY SINGLE PIECE OF HARDWARE ON UR COMPUTER, UR OPTIONS ARE SO LIMITED AS COMPARED TO THE OPTIONS WE HAVE COS UR SO COOOOOOL.
Posted by Orko on Sep-21-2008 01:06:
quote:
Originally posted by El K Dee
(xbox, zune etc. oh and yes i know that there have been I/O devices such as mice, keyboards and joysticks that theyve had for a long time but those are manufactured by other companies and the name slapped on it)
Same with the Zune and Xbox. The Zune is actually produced by Toshiba, after their line of Gigabeat players failed to make any sort of impression on the market.
(Just splitting hairs)
Posted by LKD on Sep-21-2008 01:16:
quote:
Originally posted by Orko
Same with the Zune and Xbox. The Zune is actually produced by Toshiba, after their line of Gigabeat players failed to make any sort of impression on the market.
(Just splitting hairs)
yea i know..but lets just say marketed and sold with importance as compared to the I/O devices previously
Posted by DigiNut on Sep-21-2008 01:37:
quote:
Originally posted by plaxx
I'm not familiar with any aspect of software development so most of that is irrelevant to me. I will say this though, OS X is built using the XCode development environment, which is proof enough for me.
If that's your standard of proof, it's clearly useless to try to have an intellectual discussion with you. This is called circular reasoning, or begging the question: OS X is great, because all of its apps are great, and I know XCode is great because it was used to create OS X (which is great).
Even if you had a sliver of objective evidence that OS X is as great as you want to believe, that really doesn't prove anything about XCode. Banks and insurance companies use efficient, rock-solid systems made in COBOL, one of the worst platforms ever conceived. Most medical systems are based on some type of embedded C - the same language Windows is built on. Hell, some of the most beautiful sculptures ever created were made with not much other than a chisel and some stone; does that mean they're good tools to use when you're building a skyscraper?
You could not possibly be more full of shit. If you had just said you happen to like Macs better as a personal preference (as others in this thread have done), nobody would have taken you to task over it. But no, just like the stereotypical "I'm a Mac" asshole, you had to fly in on your doucheplane and start showering your douchenuggets over everybody else.
Finally, I cannot believe you'd criticize developers for not wanting to "go through the learning curve again". Are you really this fucking stupid? You know nothing about the craft and yet you consider yourself fit to pass judgment like this? Developers have to keep up with massive amounts of technological change; the learning curve never ends. Learning a new language, a new framework, is nothing, it's easy peasy if you understand the fundamentals of algorithms and software design. Developers don't hate Macs because they would have to learn something, they hate Macs because developing software for the Mac is a fucking pain in the ass. End of discussion!
Even after I explained it in the last post, you still don't understand the difference between an IDE (XCode), a framework (Cocoa), and a programming language (Objective-C). Just cut your losses and shut up while there are still 3 people on the forum who don't think you're a moron.
Posted by DJ_Science on Sep-21-2008 04:01:
One thing I find funny about this ad is the guys who put it together have publicly stated they did it on a mac
Posted by spolitta on Sep-21-2008 04:25:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ_Science
One thing I find funny about this ad is the guys who put it together have publicly stated they did it on a mac
That's not funny and very irrelevant.
Did you know Apple shipped Pentium 4 PCs as their developer system box so their programmers could port the apps into OSX?
Every platform has its own pros and cons.
Posted by plaxx on Sep-21-2008 04:39:
quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
If that's your standard of proof, it's clearly useless to try to have an intellectual discussion with you. This is called circular reasoning, or begging the question: OS X is great, because all of its apps are great, and I know XCode is great because it was used to create OS X (which is great).
Even if you had a sliver of objective evidence that OS X is as great as you want to believe, that really doesn't prove anything about XCode. Banks and insurance companies use efficient, rock-solid systems made in COBOL, one of the worst platforms ever conceived. Most medical systems are based on some type of embedded C - the same language Windows is built on. Hell, some of the most beautiful sculptures ever created were made with not much other than a chisel and some stone; does that mean they're good tools to use when you're building a skyscraper?
You could not possibly be more full of shit. If you had just said you happen to like Macs better as a personal preference (as others in this thread have done), nobody would have taken you to task over it. But no, just like the stereotypical "I'm a Mac" asshole, you had to fly in on your doucheplane and start showering your douchenuggets over everybody else.
Finally, I cannot believe you'd criticize developers for not wanting to "go through the learning curve again". Are you really this fucking stupid? You know nothing about the craft and yet you consider yourself fit to pass judgment like this? Developers have to keep up with massive amounts of technological change; the learning curve never ends. Learning a new language, a new framework, is nothing, it's easy peasy if you understand the fundamentals of algorithms and software design. Developers don't hate Macs because they would have to learn something, they hate Macs because developing software for the Mac is a fucking pain in the ass. End of discussion!
Even after I explained it in the last post, you still don't understand the difference between an IDE (XCode), a framework (Cocoa), and a programming language (Objective-C). Just cut your losses and shut up while there are still 3 people on the forum who don't think you're a moron.
Maybe you missed this part, asshole
quote:
At the end of the day, it what you choose to work with. For me, Macs work better.
Now piss off, your computer needs to be formatted. Again.
I'll never look at Mac applications in the same way again
