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-- Ok so the bailout was rejected, or whatever
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Originally posted by Q5echo yes because Groundhog Boy is smarter than all of the 208 voters in the House today that voted no. "BOO DEMOCRACY...DEMOCRACY IS BAD...BOOOOO"

I suppose I'm an elitist by saying, yes, that most people are far more stupid about this than me. I listened to both days of hearings last week and easily determined that most of the people asking questions (our Congress), who had been recently briefed, were completely oblivious. I've run across few people outside the financial sector that understand what's actually happening. It honestly frightens me.

Far more than a nuclear Iran.

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Originally posted by Q5echo you never have boy

Been listening to too many Rush Limbaugh-types stoking the racial fires?

You don't really expect all of us to believe anything other, did you? Seriously, when, before this election, had you last heard "Boy" as a pejorative.

Maybe it's a redneck Texas thing.

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Far more than a nuclear Iran.

youre obviously not an Israeli

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Maybe it's a redneck Texas thing.

aren't you from western PA?

What really shits me about all this is that congress is now taking a day off from resolving all this to observe the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah. The share-market's in freefall, people are in danger of losing their homes, economic stability the entire world around is being threatened, but those in power can't do anything to resolve it because of some arbitrary injunction set out by some backwards, pastoral tribe about 2,700 years ago? Are you fucking serious?

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Originally posted by Q5echo aren't you from western PA?

How do you think I know the pejorative, ?

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Originally posted by Renegade What really shits me about all this is that congress is now taking a day off from resolving all this to observe the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah. The share-market's in freefall, people are in danger of losing their homes, economic stability the entire world around is being threatened, but those in power can't do anything to resolve it because of some arbitrary injunction set out by some backwards, pastoral tribe about 2,700 years ago? Are you fucking serious?

Who cares? This economic crisis isn't significant enough to warrant an all-out warning.

Or, at least you wouldn't know if from the inaction of our spineless Congressmen.

This is a matter of urgency that must happen now. It should have been finished by the weekend last week. Instead, all of Congress gave each other the usual handjobs, and we wasted time as two of our biggest banks collapsed. And it still failed today. And everyone is elated.

Fuck....this isn't Iraq. There isn't fictitious knowledge of WMDs. The financial attack has happened already. The credit pipeline is frozen.

BTW, part of me is elated. I might actually be able to afford a Manhattan condo as soon as the price declines really set in here and the US recesses to 1980s pricing. The negative part includes mounting a gun to my bed to protect it.

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Originally posted by Q5echo who cares really what partisaned crap she said before the vote.

Well, Eric Cantor, John Boehner, and Roy Blunt for starters.

Pelosi's speech was terribly ill-advised... but for the Republican leadership to throw their temper tantrum by not voting for this package... they blatantly put Party before country.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov they blatantly put Party before country.

to not vote for the shit sandwich that their constituents begged them not to vote for? i know you'd like it to be but no, it's not that easy.

there is room for improvement on this bill and apparently 90+ Democrats tend to agree...and evidently you tend to ignore.

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Originally posted by Q5echo to not vote for the shit sandwich that their constituents begged them not to vote for? i know you'd like it to be but no, it's not that easy. there is room for improvement on this bill and apparently 90+ Democrats tend to agree...and evidently you tend to ignore.

Well if that was the reason that they decided not to vote for it - you know I'm actually okay with that. As stated previously, 95 Dems. said the exact same thing, so obviously something was wrong with this bill.

But for them to come out and use that pansy-ass excuse that they got their feelings hurt by Pelosi's statement is beyond stupid. They actually used this as a primary rationale, and that's what we're complaining about. We all know it's bullshit, just as they do, so why not just come out and say what they felt was wrong with the bill itself rather than cry about what Pelosi said?

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Well if that was the reason that they decided not to vote for it - you know I'm actually okay with that. As stated previously, 95 Dems. said the exact same thing, so obviously something was wrong with this bill. But for them to come out and use that pansy-ass excuse that they got their feelings hurt by Pelosi's statement is beyond stupid. They actually used this as a primary rationale, and that's what we're complaining about. We all know it's bullshit, just as they do, so why not just come out and say what they felt was wrong with the bill itself rather than cry about what Pelosi said?

Because that would put them at risk for being wrong and weigh heavily when the markets crash. "Well I wanted to vote for it but but Pelosi!!"

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy STOP! JUST STOP! Stop talking all intellectual. Who cares about LIBOR when your wife's cousin is in LABOR? It's inconsequential and won't affect us anyway. Sorry, I'm pretty jaded after today. I thought I'd set the bar low to emotionally avoid this...I was wrong. I have a fairly high tolerance for risk given my age. That said, this stupidity today is seriously endangering the next 30-40 years, AKA, my entire adulthood.

what??? intellectual??? Unlike many people on this board I actually don't use big words in normal chat. I was unaware that 'de-leverage' and LIBOR were intellectual words.

In any rate, what the hell are you talking about? 100K of my 200K of student loans are variable rate based on the 3 month dollar libor. The interest rate resets every quarter. A few % point rate increase can add up quickly in extra interest expense. If the banking system fails I have no idea how high the dollar LIBOR would go. I can't worry about shit like, "johns sister is having a baby." I can only worry about myself.

quote:

Libor Rises Most on Record After U.S. Congress Rejects Bailout By Gavin Finch and David Yong Sept. 30 (Bloomberg) -- The cost of borrowing in dollars overnight rose the most on record after the U.S. Congress rejected a $700 billion bank-rescue plan, putting an unprecedented squeeze on the global financial system. The London interbank offered rate, or Libor, that banks charge each other for such loans climbed 431 basis points to an all-time high of 6.88 percent today, the British Bankers' Association said. The euro interbank offered rate, or Euribor, for one-month loans jumped to a record 5.05 percent, the European Banking Federation said. The Libor-OIS spread, a gauge of the scarcity of cash, also increased to an all-time high. ``This is unheard of, the money markets should be the engine driving the financial system but they have broken down,'' said Kornelius Purps, a fixed-income strategist in Munich for UniCredit Markets and Investment Banking, a unit of Italy's largest lender. ``Any institution that hasn't completed its 2008 funding needs by now is going to be in very serious trouble. More banks are going to need to be bailed out.'' The seizure in the credit markets is tipping lenders toward insolvency, forcing U.S. and European governments to rescue five banks in the past two days, including Dexia SA, the world's biggest provider of loans to local governments, and Wachovia Corp. Money-market rates climbed even after the Federal Reserve yesterday more than doubled the size of its dollar-swap line with foreign central banks to $620 billion. In Europe, banks borrowed dollars from the ECB at almost six times the Fed's benchmark interest rate today. Constraints Exacerbated The two-month Libor for euros rose to 5.13 percent, also a record. Libor, set by 16 banks including Citigroup Inc. and UBS AG in a daily survey by the BBA, is used to calculate rates on $360 trillion of financial products worldwide, from home loans to credit derivatives. Funding constraints are being exacerbated as companies try to settle trades and buttress balance sheets over the quarter- end, balking at lending for more than a day. The Frankfurt-based ECB said it lent banks $30 billion for one day at a marginal rate of 11 percent, 900 basis points above the Fed's key rate of 2 percent. The ECB said it received bids for $77.3 billion. The Bank of Japan injected more than 19 trillion yen ($182 billion) into the country's system over the past two weeks, the most in at least six years. The Reserve Bank of Australia pumped in A$1.95 billion ($1.6 billion) today. In the year before the turmoil in money markets began in July 2007, the Libor-OIS spread, the difference between the three-month dollar rate and the overnight indexed swap rate, never exceeded 15 basis points. It was a record 250 basis points today. `Broken Down' ``The money markets have completely broken down, with no trading taking place at all,'' said Christoph Rieger, a fixed- income strategist at Dresdner Kleinwort in Frankfurt. ``There is no market any more. Central banks are the only providers of cash to the market, no-one else is lending.'' Borrowing rates rose in Asia earlier today. The three-month interbank offered dollar rate in Singapore jumped to an eight- month high of 3.90 percent. The three-month rate in Hong Kong rose by the most in almost a week to 3.664 percent. The difference between the rate Australian banks charge each other for three-month loans and the overnight indexed swap rate reached 98 points, close to a six-month high. Financial institutions have posted almost $590 billion of writedowns and losses tied to U.S. subprime mortgages since the start of last year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. `Counterparty Fear' Dexia got a 6.4 billion-euro ($9.2 billion) state-backed rescue, Belgian Prime Minister Yves Leterme said today. Yesterday, the U.K. Treasury seized Bradford & Bingley Plc, Britain's biggest lender to landlords, while governments in Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg extended a lifeline to Fortis, Belgium's largest financial-services firm. Elsewhere, Hypo Real Estate Holding AG received a loan guarantee from Germany, and Iceland agreed to rescue Glitnir Bank hf. ``Counterparty fear in the banking sector is at a new extreme,'' said Greg Gibbs, director of currency strategy at ABN Amro Holding Bank NV in Sydney. ``Credit conditions are as tight as a drum. Unless this settles down, central banks would need to cut rates globally to bring funding costs down.'' Congress's rejection of the U.S. government's bank-rescue plan yesterday prompted traders to fully price in a cut in the Fed's target rate of at least a quarter point next month, futures on the Chicago Board of Trade showed. The odds were zero percent a month ago. TED Spread The difference between what banks and the U.S. Treasury pay to borrow money for three months, the so-called TED spread, was at 352 basis points today after breaching 350 basis points for the first time yesterday. The spread was at 110 basis points a month ago. ``We can be sure that funding pressures are not going to ease while there is so much uncertainty,'' said Adam Carr, senior economist in Sydney at ICAP Australia Ltd., part of the world's largest inter-bank broker. ``Cash is going to be at a premium. There's really no end in sight.'' To contact the reporters on this story: Gavin Finch in London at [email protected][/email]; David Yong in Singapore at [email][email protected] Last Updated: September 30, 2008 09:21 EDT

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...tQEE&refer=home

did you see how close to a 500 basis point increase that is?

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Well if that was the reason that they decided not to vote for it - you know I'm actually okay with that. As stated previously, 95 Dems. said the exact same thing, so obviously something was wrong with this bill. But for them to come out and use that pansy-ass excuse that they got their feelings hurt by Pelosi's statement is beyond stupid. They actually used this as a primary rationale, and that's what we're complaining about. We all know it's bullshit, just as they do, so why not just come out and say what they felt was wrong with the bill itself rather than cry about what Pelosi said?

The problem with the bill is that it was poorly sold to the public. Voting in members were likely responding to their constituents on main street who simply don't understand the gravity of the situation. It is unacceptable that both sides failed to put aside party differences despite all of their kumbayas last week saying that they would, and that they would get something done. I bet they will get it done by the end of this week given the backlash they're hearing today.

I can't even believe the amount of partisan finger-pointing going on in this very thread. It was a failure on both sides of the aisle. Congress failed. Pelosi did something horrible. Republicans did something equally horrible, by responding with the same level of partisanship to her ill-timed, completely unnecessary speech. She could not rally her party and Paulson/Bernanke/Bush apparently couldn't impress upon the GOP how important it was to get this done ASAP. It does not help that this bill has come to the floor and demanded passing with such urgency and haste, but that is how fast these problems are evolving and rippling through the financial system. The fact that the market is bouncing today won't help, but hopefully the message is getting through.

This is NOT about failed Bush economic policies. Please stop with the bs. If you think it is, then you don't fully grasp what is going on. This is about a financial system that is depended on by all of us, GOP, Dem, Independent, Godless commie, etc. Quit the fucking finger-pointing and get your head out of your ass. We all have a stake in this.

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Originally posted by Q5echo to not vote for the shit sandwich that their constituents begged them not to vote for? i know you'd like it to be but no, it's not that easy.

as has been pointed out before, the constitutuents are clueless in understanding the financial system. Clearly, most people have difficulties balancing their checkbook let along understanding the inner workings of credit markets. There possibly hasn't been a better time to do something politically unpopular than to vote yes on the bailout.

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Originally posted by Q5echo there is room for improvement on this bill and apparently 90+ Democrats tend to agree...and evidently you tend to ignore.

that's because 90 democrats are just as stupid as the 200+ republicans. This shouldn't be a democrat v republican issue. In 8 years of bush i haven't agreed on many things, but this is something we both agree on. Looks like his Harvard MBA finally went to use.

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Originally posted by occrider I moved half of my investments into funds that invested in treasuries half a year ago. I just moved the rest earlier this week.

+1

Did the same....

OMG here we go again!!



John McCain made the morning show rounds today. On Fox they were virtually begging him to "suspend" his campaign again in the wake of the bailout failure yesterday on the Hill. You know, since it worked out so well the first time. McCain's answer: He just might suspend again.

did he even do anything the first time and once again he is going to use this bail out as a fucking excuse so his little dinosaur walked with man bitch can get out the debate....

fucking GOP

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Because the Democrats should have narrowly passed this bill that wasn't supported by an uneducated public (and from listening to last week's hearings, an uneducated Congress)? They should have taken the full brunt of the public backlash for a vote that will help them, but not noticeably in 30 days? You and your ignorant House GOP and the constituents that they represent can really suck my dick. But congrats, you sure showed Nancy and her libtard supporters.

LOUDMOUTH LIBERAL SNOB GOING WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

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Originally posted by LazFX OMG here we go again!! John McCain made the morning show rounds today. On Fox they were virtually begging him to "suspend" his campaign again in the wake of the bailout failure yesterday on the Hill. You know, since it worked out so well the first time. McCain's answer: He just might suspend again. did he even do anything the first time and once again he is going to use this bail out as a fucking excuse so his little dinosaur walked with man bitch can get out the debate.... fucking GOP

McCain sure does blink a lot.......

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Originally posted by Q5echo to not vote for the shit sandwich that their constituents begged them not to vote for? i know you'd like it to be but no, it's not that easy. there is room for improvement on this bill and apparently 90+ Democrats tend to agree...and evidently you tend to ignore.

Those 90 democrats didn't vote for it because it was watered down to appeal to conservative Republicans. They made the effort to pass a bipartisan bill rather than a strictly party-line liberal one.

I saw something that pointed out that many of those who voted against it predominately were in tight election positions and that their constituents were adamantly against it. This just illustrates how poorly the plan was sold to the general public.

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Originally posted by Shakka I saw something that pointed out that many of those who voted against it predominately were in tight election positions and that their constituents were adamantly against it. This just illustrates how poorly the plan was sold to the general public.

Sometimes it's fascinating how the most important decisions get the least amount of PR. And then everyone wonders where things went wrong and why aren't people supporting them. It kinda reminds me of the EU constitution vote...

so i'm at working today
(i work close to Wall St.)

i'm wondering why people aren't jumping out of the buildings yet.

how is this different from the financial crisis in the 20s.

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Originally posted by Shakka I saw something that pointed out that many of those who voted against it predominately were in tight election positions and that their constituents were adamantly against it. This just illustrates how poorly the plan was sold to the general public.

What the fuck did you expect? Of course the public is going to be skeptical, after everything the Bush admin and his appointees have done. This isn't the first time they've swooped in here screaming emergency and calling for immediate radical changes.

I'm not going to stop calling out and blaming the Bush admin. It is a result of their failed economic policies. It is a result of his failed Presidency. Not long ago these morons stood in front of us and said not to worry the economy is fine.

Back in October 2005 during the frothy housing bubble, this is what Bernanke said:

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Ben S. Bernanke does not think the national housing boom is a bubble that is about to burst, he indicated to Congress last week, just a few days before President Bush nominated him to become the next chairman of the Federal Reserve. U.S. house prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years, noted Bernanke, currently chairman of the president�s Council of Economic Advisers, in testimony to Congress�s Joint Economic Committee. But these increases, he said, �largely reflect strong economic fundamentals,� such as strong growth in jobs, incomes and the number of new households. Bernanke�s thinking on the housing market did not attract much attention before Bush tapped him for the Fed job Monday but will likely be among the key topics explored by members of the Senate Banking Committee during upcoming hearings on his nomination. Many economists argue that house prices have risen too far too fast in many markets, forming a bubble that could rapidly collapse and trigger an economic downturn, as overinflated stock prices did at the turn of the century. Some analysts have warned that even a flattening of house prices might cause a slump � posing the first serious challenge to whoever succeeds Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan after he steps down Jan. 31. Bernanke�s testimony suggests that he does not share such concerns, and that he believes the economy could weather a housing slowdown. �House prices are unlikely to continue rising at current rates,� said Bernanke, who served on the Fed board from 2002 until June. However, he added, �a moderate cooling in the housing market, should one occur, would not be inconsistent with the economy continuing to grow at or near its potential next year.� http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5102602255.html

Bernanke in January 2008 saying the economy is slowing but fine:



Bush Jan 2008, his economic team reports the economy "has a solid foundation with areas of concern."


Bernanke in February 2008 saying the stock markets are fine too. Wrong again.
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt...3b-3b5fe1585e77



Feb 2008, Bush says economy is "structurally sound."


Oh this is a good one from March 2008. That's some tough patch Paulson!

quote:

Paulson upbeat despite economy woes WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. economy is going through a "tough patch," Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Sunday, insisting that the proper steps were being made to turn things around. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03...lson/index.html

Everyone else was getting worried, seeing the signs, wondering what it might mean. But no these guys stand up there and tell us to keep being good consumers. Then all of a sudden when the house of cards fall they come swooping in here demanding swift action and to crown a new financial king.

Josh, your grasp of history and the economy beyond the last 8 years is unbelievably poor.

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