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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- The Globe and Mail: A master plan to rein in 'Clubland'
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quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller I just wrote this letter to the editor of The Toronto Star, and a modified version to Adam Vaughan.

that letter got published

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Originally posted by timmyboy that letter got published

today's?

i guess so... its online for sure and as far as i remeber if its online its in the paper

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/532296

quote:

Originally posted by timmyboy i guess so... its online for sure and as far as i remeber if its online its in the paper http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/532296

YEY! Fabulous! Well done G! xx

WTG Graham. Although I don't agree with the last call issue, you're spot on with the rest of your letter.

quote:

Originally posted by timmyboy i guess so... its online for sure and as far as i remeber if its online its in the paper http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/532296

Going out to by today's Star to see if its in there!

THANK YOU for the heads up! Well done, Grahamers!

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar THANK YOU for the heads up! Well done, Grahamers!

Agreed, sorry timmyboy, thanks!

PS Cribs, Graham is right about the last call in my experience. It really lessened the after-club violence in the UK when they made it 24 hour licensing.

Ya, I read it this morning in the paper!

WOW!

I was discussing the matter w/ a co-worker this mourning and she called me a "baby" over the matter.

Then proceeded to say:


I don't think clubs are a good atmosphere. They are a breeding ground of

Drugs
Drunkenness
Fornication and adultery and homosexuality
Rapes
Fist fights and other violence

They are loud and noisy and disrupt other peoples lives.
Most people drinking and driving are coming home from clubs in the middle of the night.

There is nothing positive about them at all.

Re: WOW!

quote:

Originally posted by Jem_hadar I was discussing the matter w/ a co-worker this mourning and she called me a "baby" over the matter. Then proceeded to say: I don't think clubs are a good atmosphere. They are a breeding ground of Drugs Drunkenness Fornication and adultery and homosexuality Rapes Fist fights and other violence They are loud and noisy and disrupt other peoples lives. Most people drinking and driving are coming home from clubs in the middle of the night. There is nothing positive about them at all.

Buy him/her a one way ticket to khallalaalala land

quote:

Originally posted by English Rachel PS Cribs, Graham is right about the last call in my experience. It really lessened the after-club violence in the UK when they made it 24 hour licensing.

I'm more worried about the % of drunk driving if there was no last call (in the case of all night partiers.) With a limit, at least most people get to sober up by the early morning. Also, without last call, the city would need maximum police coverage throughout the whole night/morning which would be more costly too.

There are definately some benefits to either/or... but I'm not sold on the idea yet. How does the UK work around these potential problems?

quote:

Originally posted by Cribby I'm more worried about the % of drunk driving if there was no last call (in the case of all night partiers.) With a limit, at least most people get to sober up by the early morning. Also, without last call, the city would need maximum police coverage throughout the whole night/morning which would be more costly too. There are definately some benefits to either/or... but I'm not sold on the idea yet. How does the UK work around these potential problems?

The bar staff should (and must) enforce rules that prevent over intoxication.

This is also assuming that people are adults, and are responsible for own actions. People should know their own limits.

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Originally posted by Yohan This is also assuming that people are adults, and are responsible for own actions. People should know their own limits.

And sadly they don't most of the time...

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Originally posted by Cribby And sadly they don't most of the time...

and hence why I have no problem throwing the book at the people who are being stupid.

max time in jail for breaking the law.

i hate it when the society babies the citizens

quote:

Originally posted by Cribby I'm more worried about the % of drunk driving if there was no last call (in the case of all night partiers.) With a limit, at least most people get to sober up by the early morning. Also, without last call, the city would need maximum police coverage throughout the whole night/morning which would be more costly too. There are definately some benefits to either/or... but I'm not sold on the idea yet. How does the UK work around these potential problems?

Good question, I honestly don't know the answer though

I think there has been drink driving coverage in the mornings for a good few years and to be honest, the clubs close at 3 or 4 anyway and by that time, people have had their fill. I guess the psychology changes, in so much as people don't need to have those last few before the bar closes and therefore it encourages more responsible drinking and not 10 tequilas at 10 to 2

Does that make sense?

the top 40 clubs close about 30 minutes after last call. these people are definitely just as likely if not more to drive drunk than if there was no last call.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess the top 40 clubs close about 30 minutes after last call. these people are definitely just as likely if not more to drive drunk than if there was no last call.

Agreed. Not only that, I highly doubt that people who stay after last call are there to "sober up". They're there to start doing drugs.

Glad to see my letter got published!

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess the top 40 clubs close about 30 minutes after last call. these people are definitely just as likely if not more to drive drunk than if there was no last call.

Not true. When all I went to were Top 40 clubs many ppl would stay until close primarily for this reason -- but back then it wasn't uncommon for the club to keep going later.. at least past 3 or more as long as it was still busy.

Congrats on the publishing Graham!

quote:

Originally posted by Cribby Also, without last call, the city would need maximum police coverage throughout the whole night/morning which would be more costly too.

Not true actually, Cribs. The city would save money, bc they wouldnt need the large sizeable force of officers they currently use to deal w/ the massive influx (outflux?) of drunken folks all around the 2am-3am timeframe (1/2 of which say have ordered 2-4 drinks at or just before last call so they could keep getting drunk!). No last call would also discourage binge drinking around last call.

Generally it will take a lot less police effort to manage a crowd that slowly dissipates from the clubs/bars over the early hours in the morning than it does to deal w/ the tidal wave of patrons that exist all in the same time period as is now w/ a last call in place.

Did Adam Vaughan reply to you?

quote:

Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT Did Adam Vaughan reply to you?

Lol, of course not.

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Originally posted by The Highroller Glad to see my letter got published!

nice job on having your letter published G. it goes to show a lot more in the way of exploring solutions and promoting social activism through the media than the large myriad of others who do nothing but sit & complain.

kind of an old article, but with the talk of last call, i thought i'd post it. afterall, we're always looking up to NYC.



4 A.M. Last Calls Could Be Headed The Way of Smoky Bars

By CHRISTOPHER FAHERTY, Staff Reporter of the Sun | April 17, 2008

City nightlife industry insiders fear that the days of 4 a.m. last calls are numbered.

In most parts of Manhattan, bar and club owners say, it has become nearly impossible to open new nightlife establishments that are permitted to serve alcohol until 4 a.m. � the Prohibition-era curfew that is seen as a bedrock of New York City's party town identity.

Community boards that now hold substantial clout with the New York State Liquor Authority are increasingly requesting that liquor licenses be tied to earlier closing times, often at or before 2 a.m., a number of advocates for the nightlife industry said.

"It is a trend that has certainly increased in the last six months, and if it keeps increasing there are going to be serious problems for the nightlife industry and the city's economy," a lawyer for the New York Nightlife Association, Robert Bookman, said. An independent study conducted at the request of his association found that city nightlife establishments garner 58% of their revenues between the hours of 1 a.m. and 4 a.m., he said. Under state law, which says the closing time for bars in the city is 4 a.m., the liquor authority lacks the power to place stipulations on the operating hours of bars and clubs. However, if a bar owner agrees to limit its hours of operation with the local community board, the liquor authority will write it into the license.

Community boards for years have provided the liquor authority with recommendations for liquor licenses, but only recently has their influence become a determining factor in designating them. "The new leadership that took over during the last few years of the Pataki administration has been dramatically more responsive to the community than any I've ever seen with many years of experience with the SLA, and I think that's a good thing," a state assemblyman who represents the Chelsea area of Manhattan, Richard Gottfried, said.

A spokesman for the liquor authority, William Crowley, said the agency determines liquor licenses on a case-by-case basis and follows the letter of the law.

Some say community boards are wielding their newfound power with the liquor authority to force bars to close earlier than ever before.

"More and more of the community boards are insisting that bars close at 2 a.m. or earlier," Ben Leventhal, the editor in chief of Eater.com, a Web log that chronicles many of the liquor license issues arising in the city, said. "It's become the community boards' de facto bargaining chip."

Matthew Piacentini, an entrepreneur poised to open a European-style parlor, said he decided to back out of plans to open the lounge in a commercial building on Hudson Street in TriBeCa after the community board stipulated he would have to close at midnight on weekdays and 1 a.m. on weekends. Mr. Piacentini pitched his establishment as an upscale anecdote to nightclubs for a clientele interested in having conversation. "If I could only be open for six hours there was no chance I could bring in the necessary revenue," he said.

Brad Hoylman, the chairman of Community Board 2, which covers Greenwich Village and SoHo, said the board approves 90% of all liquor license applications, and 80% of those are tied to certain stipulations such as time constraints.

"In our neighborhoods, most people don't want to live next to a nightlife establishment, he said. "What we try to do is be reasonable and have a fair negotiation with the applicant."

Community Board 3, which covers the bar-saturated neighborhoods of the East Village and the Lower East Side, is widely described as the stingiest board in the city when it comes to obtaining a new liquor license. The board's district manager, Susan Stetzer, said her board doesn't stipulate closing times, but that the applicants themselves come to the board with their own closing times.

According to minutes from the board's monthly meetings in November, December, and January, the most recent records available, not a single liquor license recommendation was granted to a bar that would close after 3 a.m. on weekends and 2 a.m. on weekdays.

Copyright 2008 The New York Sun.

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky afterall, we're always looking up to NYC.

it always seems to me that NYC is everything TO wants to be

for those interested, check out this link, http://www.entertainmentdistrict.ca/home.php

the one thing that's encouraging to see is that they are using good precedents from other cities to design something here.

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