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I'm not trying to make anyone look bad. Hate is different from debate.

I'm trying to point out exactly what you just pointed out. We were formed on Christian grounds, but in no shape or form are a Christian nation sans the fact that Christians still outnumber any other religious group present in the US. We are not a theocracy based on Christianity. You guys arguing that we are a "Christian nation" just does not comply with our own constitution.

Christians deserve to be outcast, fuck. I can't stand most of those people and I grew up in a Christian household. They aren't all bad, but I've met way too many that make me think otherwise.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 Sorry guys, but this is a Christian nation that was founded on those values.

Actually, the US is a representative republic, and the only "values" upon which it was founded are those of the democratic process (read the Constituion). If the people want to elect legislators that will then draft legislation or amendments based on Christian values, then they can. But it's wrong to state that the US was founded with them pre-installed.

I don't think anyone can deny that in the early years of this country Christianity had a large influence on how things were done. Aside from the obvious mentioning of God in various documents etc, we're talking about a time in which you were almost outcast for believing otherwise. Regardless of the fact that a freedom of religion existed, people were afraid of non_Christian religions because they were ignorant and paranoid as to things they didn't know or understand.

... but aside from that, my main point is that I can vote for a candidate that feels strongly about respecting my beliefs AND OTHERS, or I can vote for a candidate who seems to join the crowd of belittling my religion. Christians typically aren't all about shoving other religions out the door, so I don't appreciate giving into the concept that mine should, either.

And Mario, that article doesn't envelope Christianity just as Osama Bin Laden doesn't envelope the general belief and outlook of muslims.

The democratic ticket belittles Christianity

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Originally posted by enydo Christians deserve to be outcast, fuck. I can't stand most of those people and I grew up in a Christian household. They aren't all bad, but I've met way too many that make me think otherwise.

Wow, and you seem like such a pleasant person to be with. Saying stuff like that makes you look like a moron.

I'm not saying that we should be a theocracy or that every decision should be made based on religious beliefs. I'm just saying that religious beliefs and values have played a part in politics historically and now it seems people are wanting to put that backseat to making sure that no one is offended. That's where I'm coming from.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 I'm not saying that we should be a theocracy or that every decision should be made based on religious beliefs. I'm just saying that religious beliefs and values have played a part in politics historically and now it seems people are wanting to put that backseat to making sure that no one is offended. That's where I'm coming from.

It's not even just Christianity.

For example, I remember hearing something a few years back about this insane uproar because some small supermarket decided to do a sale on chicken during Black History month... and the question at hand was, would people have made such a big deal if, say, it was bratwurst during Oktoberfest? The answer is obviously a big fat NO, and I guess (whether delusional or not) my concept of the democratic party is shit like that... trying so much to cater to every single STUPID thing people could whine about to where our freedom of speech is replaced by some sense of not being able to open our mouths without offending SOMEONE.

So when the democrats are trying to appease crazy anti-religion nuts, and other races claiming they've been discriminated against because someone else LOOKED at them, the republicans are trying to, you know, lower taxes and lower spending/debt, keeping jobs in the country, etc...

And that's REALLY what I've seen throughout the campaign. Obama is going to be your "friend", well I'm voting on a President.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 Wow, and you seem like such a pleasant person to be with. Saying stuff like that makes you look like a moron.

I'm not a pleasant person to be with at all...

I don't understand how it makes me moronic, it's my opinion. I don't hate Christians, I have many friends who are Christians and my family is for the most part Christian. I'm not really an atheist, I just dislike the Christian faith and would rather not see it encroach upon our government. The whole "Christians should be outcast" comment was out of line and I apologize, I was a bit cranky this morning.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 Sorry guys, but this is a Christian nation that was founded on those values.

Keep in mind too that our founding fathers were considered very liberal by the standards of their day.

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Originally posted by DiscoStew Keep in mind too that our founding fathers were considered very liberal by the standards of their day.

Yeah, likely, but would we have been offered these freedoms otherwise?

Try going to any given middle eastern country and telling them their public endorsement of a mandated religion offends you.

... people take freedom for granted.

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Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar It's not even just Christianity. For example, I remember hearing something a few years back about this insane uproar because some small supermarket decided to do a sale on chicken during Black History month... and the question at hand was, would people have made such a big deal if, say, it was bratwurst during Oktoberfest? The answer is obviously a big fat NO, and I guess (whether delusional or not) my concept of the democratic party is shit like that... trying so much to cater to every single STUPID thing people could whine about to where our freedom of speech is replaced by some sense of not being able to open our mouths without offending SOMEONE. So when the democrats are trying to appease crazy anti-religion nuts, and other races claiming they've been discriminated against because someone else LOOKED at them, the republicans are trying to, you know, lower taxes and lower spending/debt, keeping jobs in the country, etc... And that's REALLY what I've seen throughout the campaign. Obama is going to be your "friend", well I'm voting on a President.

You're absolutely right, Maggie. All the Democratic party is doing has nothing to do with politics. Only Republicans are concerned about politics. Aren't Republicans the only Pro-USA people in this country too? I just can't stand liberals.

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Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar Yeah, likely, but would we have been offered these freedoms otherwise?

No, we would not. The idea of rights and liberties for the individual was considered to be a leftist ideology.

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Originally posted by iammesol You're absolutely right, Maggie. All the Democratic party is doing has nothing to do with politics. Only Republicans are concerned about politics. Aren't Republicans the only Pro-USA people in this country too? I just can't stand liberals.

lol. priceless.

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Originally posted by iammesol You're absolutely right, Maggie. All the Democratic party is doing has nothing to do with politics. Only Republicans are concerned about politics. Aren't Republicans the only Pro-USA people in this country too? I just can't stand liberals.

I didn't say they had no concern for politics, did I? I stated that it was my opinion that they seem less focused than Republicans.

One reason I try to stay out of political arguments is the inevitable happening of the opposing opinion trying to put words in my mouth, or acting as if they can't clearly comprehend a statement or concept. As previously stated, I realize that no words, or even hard proof I can provide is going to change anyone's minds. If you guys were going to respect, consider, or agree on anything I had to say, you wouldn't vote democrat. Vice versa goes for me, but I at least try the respect and consideration part, even if I don't agree.

I've yet to throw sarcasm, or hint to anyone's lack of intelligence toward politics. The fact that you guys are even subtly indicating that myself, or anyone else is an idiot because of what we believe in, or who we vote for shows YOUR ignorance.

... which I could just say that means ignorant people vote democrat, but then I'd look like the rest of you in this debate

My condolences to my worthy adversaries on this thread. If you regret our nation's decision after four years of Obama, I will buy you a drink....you'll probably have to remind me about that one though.

I leave you with my final eloquent contention in our intellectual debate:


















Can we all be friends again?

Absolutely not. I do not befriend democrats, because I take it THAT.FUCKING.SERIOUSLY.

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Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar Absolutely not. I do not befriend democrats, because I take it THAT.FUCKING.SERIOUSLY.

Nobody's perfect...



I've sat back and watched this thread long enough without chiming in, but there's never been a more fitting time:

Obama. 2008. Finally.

To have followed one man for the past 4 years because I believed - I believed that the moment he began to speak at the 2004 DNC that he would be President. To say that tonight, in my nearly 28 years on this Earth and nearly 28 years as an American, I have never, ever, been so proud.

For those of you so closed-minded that you won't vote for someone based on the color of their skin or their middle name, or anything along those lines, I simply say...well...all I need to say now is deal with it.

Tomorrow is a new day, and as stated so well tonight by Obama, it's time not to be divided as Republicans, Democrats or Independents, black, white, Asian or Hispanic, gay, straight, disabled or not disabled...it's time to be Americans.

I'd been looking forward to this moment for 4 years now, when Bush won his second term and I thought to myself, "Alright, 4 more years and I know that, no matter who comes after him, this fawker will finally be gone."

I'm just glad that the person that will come after Bush is the one I was rooting for.

America has made a bad decision tonight. I'm not going to be one of those people who say "he's not my President" or "I'm going to move to Canada," but I will say I am very disappointed by this. You guys who hate Bush, you will see just how bad a President can be.

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Originally posted by mistiso Nobody's perfect... I've sat back and watched this thread long enough without chiming in, but there's never been a more fitting time: Obama. 2008. Finally. To have followed one man for the past 4 years because I believed - I believed that the moment he began to speak at the 2004 DNC that he would be President. To say that tonight, in my nearly 28 years on this Earth and nearly 28 years as an American, I have never, ever, been so proud. For those of you so closed-minded that you won't vote for someone based on the color of their skin or their middle name, or anything along those lines, I simply say...well...all I need to say now is deal with it. Tomorrow is a new day, and as stated so well tonight by Obama, it's time not to be divided as Republicans, Democrats or Independents, black, white, Asian or Hispanic, gay, straight, disabled or not disabled...it's time to be Americans. I'd been looking forward to this moment for 4 years now, when Bush won his second term and I thought to myself, "Alright, 4 more years and I know that, no matter who comes after him, this fawker will finally be gone." I'm just glad that the person that will come after Bush is the one I was rooting for.

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Originally posted by PVDfan07 I'm sure you know how everyone is going to vote. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that. You are a jackass.

Right, i was wrong, sorry.


It was obvious from a non-bias source that we knew what the country wanted.

But no, your redneck ways kept you (and from seeing your comments) in a closed way of mind. Fuck both of you and bi-polars narrow minded beliefs, you guys are as daft as.... i dont know as what, but pretty daft.

quote:

Originally posted by PVDfan07 America has made a bad decision tonight. I'm not going to be one of those people who say "he's not my President" or "I'm going to move to Canada," but I will say I am very disappointed by this. You guys who hate Bush, you will see just how bad a President can be.

Yeah, we will see indeed...

quote:

Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar I didn't say they had no concern for politics, did I? I stated that it was my opinion that they seem less focused than Republicans. One reason I try to stay out of political arguments is the inevitable happening of the opposing opinion trying to put words in my mouth, or acting as if they can't clearly comprehend a statement or concept. As previously stated, I realize that no words, or even hard proof I can provide is going to change anyone's minds. If you guys were going to respect, consider, or agree on anything I had to say, you wouldn't vote democrat. Vice versa goes for me, but I at least try the respect and consideration part, even if I don't agree. I've yet to throw sarcasm, or hint to anyone's lack of intelligence toward politics. The fact that you guys are even subtly indicating that myself, or anyone else is an idiot because of what we believe in, or who we vote for shows YOUR ignorance. ... which I could just say that means ignorant people vote democrat, but then I'd look like the rest of you in this debate

Couldn't have said it better myself. I shouldn't have even joined in, but I always like a good debate. The opposing side did everything you mentioned. People acting like what I said was incomprehensible, putting words in mouths, questioning intelligence, and of course, name calling. But, I will say it was a breath of fresh air to see someone who has some respect and stands up for what's right. So, hats off to you.

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Originally posted by nchs09 Right, i was wrong, sorry. It was obvious from a non-bias source that we knew what the country wanted. But no, your redneck ways kept you (and from seeing your comments) in a closed way of mind. Fuck both of you and bi-polars narrow minded beliefs, you guys are as daft as.... i dont know as what, but pretty daft.

So, now I'm a redneck and we are daft because of our beliefs? I am not close minded just because you disagree with me. I don't want to sink to your level and be a name caller, but what can I say, you really are an idiot.Obviously Obama won, but I'm not allowed to be optimistic for McCain? The polls were all pretty close and, after all, they are just polls. So, seriously, I'm not going to fight like a child with you, but piss off.

When are you guys going to come out of your simple minded hole? Ffs... why play the victim card when you can just back your thoughts up with factual information? lol

As for the state of things, all I can say is w00t. Amazed at how so many people woke up this year, including myself

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Originally posted by iammesol When are you guys going to come out of your simple minded hole? Ffs... why play the victim card when you can just back your thoughts up with factual information? lol As for the state of things, all I can say is w00t. Amazed at how so many people woke up this year, including myself

Once again, why are we simple minded just because we have differing beliefs from you? You guys really are immature if you can't even discuss things without the name calling. Even though I think your beliefs are really screwed up, I'm not going to call you simple minded. Sam, I like you, but grow up a little.

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Originally posted by Caution_BiPolar As far as Scott and whoever else challenging the bit I wrote about how businesses will be effected, welcome to the age old difference in point of view between people who support Republican and people who support Democrat. If you were going to understand and appreciate what I had to say on the matter, you likely wouldn't be supporting Obama. And vice versa. So be it.

Are you implying that all Republicans support supply-side economics? That's essentially what you have said. If so, your point of view is wrong. George H.W. Bush called supply side economics "voodoo economics" and he's arguably smarter than his son. You may choose to continue having this point of view though because after all, this is America.

In business, there can be many points of view and strategies on how to tackle an issue, but among these points of view, there is something called evidence and consistent behaviour which reveal which points of view are better. This had nothing to do with Republican or Democrat but you had to bring it up. All I have said is I am skeptical about the benefits of supply side economics because there is poor evidence that shows it works. I'm sorry you felt that attacking such economic policies is an attack on your candidate on even an attack on your party. It's not.

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